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Originally posted by woosa

Hi Tim

You will get phases where meditation can be very boring. But purification is still happening even when you don't think so. In a few weeks you may have overcome this slump and will progress into something else. Bliss will come, but you can't make it - it'll just happen.

Thoughts coming up all of the time while meditating is a good thing - it shows that you have your work cut out! Easily favour the mantra when this happens - you are not forcing your mind to go to silence with it.

Is your asana practise very slow and relaxing? If it's tiring and fast then it might be worth changing it. You don't want to be going into meditation sweating and panting.

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Originally posted by Bodhi Tree

Greetings T-Chill,

The barometer of meditation's success is always revealed in the improvement of quality of life during daily activity--which may or may not have corresponding "bliss" during actual meditation sessions. Quite often, I've had meditations with lots of thought-streams, but when I've come out of meditation and rested, my mind is ready to engage in life in a much more peaceful and relaxed way.

If you think of it like housecleaning, then you can be thankful that whatever arises is being surfaced by the grace of stillness, and that by allowing and easily favoring the mantra, you are going through exactly what you need to go through at any given time.

The more we let go of expectations, the more we can actually enjoy the process, even if that means sitting with a barrage of seemingly mundane thoughts. From the perspective of stillness, all this scenery plays an equal and necessary part of our unfoldment, so we don't have to struggle with the prioritization of the flavors of phenomena. This has been a great learning experience for me, since I have a tendency to crave mystical panoramas.

Sounds like you are off to a great start. This is a long journey, so relax into the ride, and the bliss will come. Actually, it's already here. We're just becoming more aware of it.

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Originally posted by timothyschilling

I also wonder about ego. Could it be that my ego is too messed up?

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Originally posted by mr_anderson

My meditation sessions are almost always boring. At best, the time passes and doesn't feel like it took all that long. I find it hard to sit still for the entire time. I'm not prone to visions, mystical experiences during meditation, in fact if I just judged meditation based upon what happens while I'm sitting on the meditation seat, I'd say it was a complete waste of time.

All these fancy stories from people who see dead gurus, and feel blessed, and see a light in their third eye, and have wonderful experiences and so on mean absolutely nothing to me. I'm sure it's very nice for them though

But it's all about what happens when you're off the cushion, if you have all sorts of amazing experiences but your daily life isn't changing, then meditation wouldn't be all that valuable. It's about the gradual, subtle changes. A heart that gradually opens and you find yourself more loving. Anxieties slipping away in daily life, so you're free from all worries about present and future, so over just a few years you find you're so confident, fearless and strong no matter what situation you face. A rising joy that occurs for no reason: simply from walking in the rain, or watching sunlight on a windowsill.

And gradually: recognizing you were never who you thought you were, as identification with your body-mind slips away, so do all the problems and concerns and constraints you ever imagined were yours. Freedom.

It took me twice daily DM and pranayama (after I'd stuck with the initial first month of just DM) for about 6 months before I became conscious of a subtle bliss (but I'd probably been following meditative practices for about 3-4 years before trying AYP, although I can't honestly say I practiced twice daily, every day, without fail - as I did with AYP pretty much. before I was inconsistent with my routine, and inconsistency gains little or nothing.). Everything has gradually changed, only because I was consistent.

I can only say, be patient my friend! The results come eventually, but nothing special is supposed to happen during meditation sessions, although it's nice if it does!

Love,

J

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Originally posted by mr_anderson

My meditation sessions are almost always boring. At best, the time passes and doesn't feel like it took all that long. I find it hard to sit still for the entire time. I'm not prone to visions, mystical experiences during meditation, in fact if I just judged meditation based upon what happens while I'm sitting on the meditation seat, I'd say it was a complete waste of time.

All these fancy stories from people who see dead gurus, and feel blessed, and see a light in their third eye, and have wonderful experiences and so on mean absolutely nothing to me. I'm sure it's very nice for them though

But it's all about what happens when you're off the cushion, if you have all sorts of amazing experiences but your daily life isn't changing, then meditation wouldn't be all that valuable. It's about the gradual, subtle changes. A heart that gradually opens and you find yourself more loving. Anxieties slipping away in daily life, so you're free from all worries about present and future, so over just a few years you find you're so confident, fearless and strong no matter what situation you face. A rising joy that occurs for no reason: simply from walking in the rain, or watching sunlight on a windowsill.

And gradually: recognizing you were never who you thought you were, as identification with your body-mind slips away, so do all the problems and concerns and constraints you ever imagined were yours. Freedom.

It took me twice daily DM and pranayama (after I'd stuck with the initial first month of just DM) for about 6 months before I became conscious of a subtle bliss (but I'd probably been following meditative practices for about 3-4 years before trying AYP, although I can't honestly say I practiced twice daily, every day, without fail - as I did with AYP pretty much. before I was inconsistent with my routine, and inconsistency gains little or nothing.). Everything has gradually changed, only because I was consistent.

I can only say, be patient my friend! The results come eventually, but nothing special is supposed to happen during meditation sessions, although it's nice if it does!

Love,

J

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Originally posted by CarsonZi

Hi Tim,

I feel your pain as I can see how it could be easy to interpret Yogani's writings in a way that could create expectations for near immediate results. In reality however, it took you your entire lifetime (or hundreds of lifetimes if you are inclined in that way) to accumulate the current obstructions so expecting 70 days of meditation to reverse all that is a tad unrealistic.

I think there are a couple of things worth pointing out here:

1) At a certain point, usually when the identification with the body/mind is dropped, the concepts of time and space become transparent and the "timeframe" that events take place in becomes less "rigid." What I mean by that is that at a certain point, 40 years can seem like the blink of an eye... and when writing from that perspective, which I'm sure Yogani is, the writings could easily be interpreted by others as taking 'no time at all'.... and in the grand scheme, 40 years really is the blink of an eye.

2) The results/effects of AYP practice are often very subtle. Often it is other's that notice the differences even before we do simply because we are so close to ourselves that we miss these subtle changes. With some time and an increase in sensitivity the benefits become more and more evident.

3) How one defines "bliss" is very subjective. What you are calling bliss may not be what Yogani (and other's) are pointing to. In my opinion/experience, bliss is simply a lack of suffering. The "ecstasy" that others talk about is, in my opinion, a sign of imbalance and not necessarily a sign of advancement. At least that's how it was for me. Now, when I am balanced, there is no "ecstatic bliss" there is simply quiet compassion. Before, when I was unbalanced, I would experience ecstatic sensations so strong that communication was nearly impossible and normal human functioning was very very challenging.

Not sure if this is going to be helpful, but hopefully there is something here that resonates.

Love,
Carson

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Originally posted by mr_anderson

Dear Tim,

On practical note, I was doing meditation practice quite regularly for 5 years before I had even an inkling of bliss. And frankly, bliss, in my view, is the most irrelevant benefit of meditation practices. It’s good when bliss is experienced, I don’t care when it’s not happening.

Spiritual seeking, for the majority of us (including myself), almost always starts out with the seeker transposing their seeking of happiness/good feelings in the world to seeking happiness/good feelings from spiritual experiences.

In other words, we become aware of the inherent unsatisfactoriness (Dukkha) of trying to get happiness from a job, a car, money, the right girlfriend, the situation in life, drugs, alcohol, diet, losing weight, gaining muscle, getting that new TV we wanted… whatever it is, we’ve realized these things don’t bring any lasting happiness. When we get them, feels good for a little while, then it’s onto the next thing, and nothing has really changed.

On becoming aware of Dukkha, the longing for happiness from gross objects (as described above), turns into what is just a slightly wiser approach. Happiness is just a feeling right? If there are practices that can give us the feeling that we want, without needing to be reliant on gross objects, we could get some of this elusive “inner happiness” or “inner peace”.

So we instead of longing for gross objects, we start longing for subtle objects. Bliss, non-dual awareness, unity, whatever fanciful and attractive spiritual experiences we read about someone else having. If I just had that, then I could be happy! In fact just by reading about these experiences others are having and we are not, the unsatisfactoriness of our own experience is more keenly perceived.

There’s a word for this mechanism of seeking what is not present, and hence slightly resisting what is present, and it’s called Ego. It’s this very mechanism that is the cause of suffering, and the process of endlessly chasing desires, and ultimately continuing to suffer from the inherent Dukkha irrespective of whether or not those desires are fulfilled.

This mechanism of seeking/resisting (being motivated to gain pleasure and resist pain) only has power over us as so long as we are identified with it (not consciously witnessing it from a detached perspective). I think bliss, which transcends pleasure & pain, is perceived in direct correlation to the amount which we have ceased to identify with the ego’s mechanism of continually resisting the present moment by seeking pleasure which is not present, and resisting the pain that is present. At least if there's not bliss, when we cease identifying and being swayed by the pain/pleasure mechanism, we find equanimity.

I am one of the worst possible failures as a spiritual practitioner. My bhakti was so intense, I was so unbearably conscious of Dukkha, and so strongly desired this enlightenment panacea I was hearing about. I can’t describe the pain I suffered under this intense desire for some sort of spiritual experience that was absolutely not happening to me. I just failed miserably to derive anything noticeable from my practices for year after year.

The pain of my failure eventually forced me to stop seeking anything, and simply confront my experience as it was: immensely painful and dissatisfying. When I learned to stop running from this, I woke up out of identification with this mechanism of constantly resisting all pain, and always seeking to control experience into being more pleasurable. I found my true nature was altogether beyond these opposites.

This mechanism is right at the heart of the ego. If this resonates with you, I suggest listening to Adyashanti’s talk about this called Fierce Grace, and as a practical guide to specifically targeting this deeply ingrained resistance/seeking mechanism, I suggest the Presence Process by Michael Brown. A book that takes us deeply into the present moment, willingly opening ourselves to whatever it may contain: especially the aspects which are deeply unpleasant.

Then you might start to realize yourself as something which is altogether beyond that apparent person who is solely motivated by its own pleasure and pain.

Fierce Grace is free for download: http://www.adyashanti.org/cafedharm...ibrary_audio

And The Presence Process is on Amazon.

Love,
Josh

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