|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
clearmoon
USA
3 Posts |
 Posted - May 03 2013 : 2:02:45 PM
|
Hello AYP'ers! I am a brand new member, just stumbled upon the site a couple of weeks ago and have been doing the practices twice a day since then. I was thrilled to find such a straightforward and crystal clear approach to yoga... I've been searching for quite a while for a systematic spiritual discipline and this one seems to click with me like no other. So big thanks to Yogani!
In my aforementioned search, before finding AYP I had been researching the Western esoteric/hermetic tradition and in several sources came across the entity known as the "Dweller on the Threshold" or "Guardian of the Threshold". Rudolph Steiner and Madame Blavatsky, among others, mention this entity. It seems to be the personification of one's karma, Jung's shadow self, the sum of one's unconscious fears and personal failings/weaknesses etc. embodied in the form of a terrifying being which guards the entry to the higher worlds which eventually lead to enlightenment. Steiner especially emphasizes that one must eventually face this entity on the spiritual path, as it shows us what corrections must be made in our personalities before we can get in touch with the Higher Self.
So I guess my question is, how does this entity, or the general idea of the shadow self/unconscious, fit into the practices of yoga? Yogani talks in one of the lessons about how the practices burn through our negative karma without us necessarily having to confront it in an intellectualized/psychologized way, but I'm having a hard time understanding that. Is it really possible to reach enlightenment without ever consciously confronting our fears or the darker side of our personality?
Any insight from more experienced members would be very much appreciated! |
|
|
HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2013 : 4:02:01 PM
|
Hi clear,
welcome to the forums.
Your question isn't unusual. I'd answer it's possible, although not mandatory. Yoga neither bans making Samyana gradually your favorite #1 technique, nor asks you to quit western psychology forever.
Having said that, any subconscious stuff that happens to pop up in the conscious mind during asana, kriya, meditation, or pranayama, is just scenery, and met by simply favoring and continuing the practice (while self-pacing it, as always).
As Adyashanti put it, a mind can never outsmart itself. Hence the "without us necessarily having to confront it in an intellectualized/psychologized way..." in yoga, tantra, zen, etc; more like dropping an old backpack full of burdens without examining its content. Techniques that span both body and mind (like asana, pranayama, tantra) benefit greatly from that, because the more tense goal chasing, the more setbacks.
IMO, even quite meditative western techniques like Psychosynthesis or the Healing Codes are a bit too goal- & scenery-oriented to qualify as real yoga, which of course makes them neither better nor worse, just different (often, they solve a problem quite quickly).
|
Edited by - HathaTeacher on May 06 2013 09:21:07 AM |
 |
|
|
AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2013 : 5:19:01 PM
|
Welcome Clearmoon,
Thinking back, I do remember one of Steiner's books mentioning certain initiations (Fire, Water, Air Trials) one would be facing in his cosmology of the higher worlds. AYP's view simplifies all that and suggests to ignore anything strange and treat it for what it is and does, scenery and distraction/obstruction. Other similar paths such as Taoist alchemy have pretty much the same advice from what I've come across.
Steiner does relate some functioning of the chakras towards the fulfillment of such requirements (in Knowledge of the Higher Worlds and its Attainment) which parallels the advice of the restraints and observances - yamas & niyamas - of Patanjali and its link to bhakti and practice. He also mentions guidance from higher beings, and not just opposition from lesser and greater guardians during their trials. It isn't clear how literally he meant it, but he did compose theatrical plays trying to portray all of this, so it wouldn't be surprising if these could be metaphors for which he had insight into using his clairvoyance.
In Taoism, I've heard of 'the wrath of heaven' (Tsung Hwa Jou) which forbids open mention of inner progress so that transgression would bar all future progress. One could suggest this too would be like a guardian testing the discipline, though it too could be a metaphor to the danger of the mind capitalising on inner progress and stalling or diverting it. So it's hard to say what's what, though safe to assume it is all part of maya or lila.
quote:
Originally posted by HathaTeacher
IMO, even quite meditative western techniques like Psychosynthesis or the Healing Codes are a bit too goal- & scenery-oriented to qualify as real yoga, which of course makes them neither better nor worse, just different (often, they solve a problem quite quickly).
All the contemplation and psycho-analyzing hasn't come close to the power of sitting in bhakti and silence in my experience; not to say they aren't worthwhile, just different means with their own aims, time-frames, and scope, just like you put it. |
|
|
|
Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2013 : 6:42:56 PM
|
Hi Clearmoon,
to the experience here, you do face them, but only partly and not as you'd expect to face them. Some of it is just faced inside (right at the sitting practice) through feelings, visions and "rehappening" of that past scene, some of it is directly transformed into its essence of unstructured bliss and ecstasy, some of it will just be loosened up to a degree where it will manifest very fast after the practice and you will live it through but also in a different way ;)
With the rising witness, all of this facing and clearing and becoming more and more transparent, will be very easy, as you will always know what you truly are while all happens, the untouched witness.
So let the angels and devils come and dissolve in the rising bliss presence =) Crazy stuff may happen, but if you want the ultimate, who cares? Whatever comes, welcome :) Nothing can happen to you, just practice and enjoy everything :) |
|
|
|
clearmoon
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2013 : 11:38:33 PM
|
| Thanks for all the thoughtful answers and encouragement! I'm certainly enjoying the practices so far, just have lots of philosphical questions floating around. It's strange to me how much more importance is placed on specific experiences in the western tradition, the 'scenery' as it's called here, when the ultimate goal is exactly the same. One of the reasons I was more drawn to yoga- it certainly invites ego inflation to have titles and grades based on what experiences and knowledge you have (or claim to have.) |
|
|
|
kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2013 : 08:31:07 AM
|
Hi clearmoon,
Welcome to the forums.
Really insightful responses from the wonderful practitioners above. Thank you, dear friends. 
Confronting the shadow self, as you say, is an important (and mandatory) step in Western psychology-based paths. Ken Wilbur describes this in detail in many if his works. I would say that yes, this is a critical and mandatory step in yoga as well. Trying to ignore this leads to what is known as "spiritual bypassing". It is a pitfall that we absolutely need to be aware of. Often what can happen is that the rising inner silence takes over, leading to a kind of indifference or plain "not seeing" of our deeper issues. We unconsciously (or consciously) adjust our way of being to remain in that silent space as an escape. However, because the deeper issues are very much operative, they keep coming up and playing out again and again. Even amongst advanced practitioners, this can be easily spotted (even though they remain stubbornly blind to those issues themselves). The only way to resolve them is to face them, to dig deeper, and to make peace with all aspects of ourselves. There is no liberation in ignoring or disowning any part of our psyche. There can be cool experiences and intellectualization, but no true liberation.
Meditation and other spiritual practices will bring up these subconscious issues to the forefront. And it is at this point that we are given the opportunity to see and let go. This is where self-inquiry comes in. It is one thing if one can remain still and mirror-like and see it all as arising and falling in awareness. But that ability comes only with sufficient inner silence and witnessing. It must be said that even when there is the rise of the witness, everything is not easily viewed as scenery unless there is a great willingness to look at our shadow selves. That takes the simultaneous development of discriminative wisdom (that can be effectively cultivated through inquiry) and surrender (through Bhakti).
All in all, I would agree that in yoga or any other system, there are no shortcuts with respect to the shadow self.
Love,
kami |
|
|
|
HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2013 : 10:28:07 AM
|
I underline the "during" - figuratively and now even literally in
the previous post above. Let's differentiate between
- the (broader) path of yoga in life
- the actual session itself.
In the latter, the mind uses umpteen ways to cheat itself into doing something completely different from the asana/meditation/pranayama initially intended. Western psychology is often misused as a cheap excuse for not actually immersing wholeheartedly into the simple activity here & now.
quote:
Originally posted by kami
Meditation and other spiritual practices will bring up these subconscious issues to the forefront. And it is at this point that we are given the opportunity to see and let go. This is where self-inquiry comes in.
Love,
kami
I agree there are habits/patterns that become obvious during meditation and that map directly onto conditioning in life, world view etc. But, exploring this opportunity and these connections from meditation (typically, shrugging from friction) to all kinds of conditioning fits into a relaxed atmosphere of dokusan/debriefing, satsang, sharing, counselling, etc. - not into the session (to dramatize it to the extreme: in inner skiing or martial arts, it'd pose a serious, physical danger). The staircase from focused relaxed dharana to dhyana (from joriki to zazen) is cumulative. The first step is still in place when we walk our way up.
My USD 0.02 
L & L |
|
|
|
clearmoon
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2013 : 11:49:15 AM
|
HathaTeacher, in your first post you mentioned samyama- just to clarify, would samyama be an appropriate way to deal more deeply with subconscious contents that come up during meditation?
Thanks for your response Kami, that makes a lot of sense to me. I'm certainly not interested in avoiding the shadow self, I just want to be able to strike a balance between sticking to practices and confronting what needs to be confronted. I'd be interested to hear more details from either of you on how you do this... |
|
|
|
kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2013 : 1:50:55 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by HathaTeacher
I underline the "during" - figuratively and now even literally in
the previous post above. Let's differentiate between
- the (broader) path of yoga in life
- the actual session itself.
In the latter, the mind uses umpteen ways to cheat itself into doing something completely different from the asana/meditation/pranayama initially intended. Western psychology is often misused as a cheap excuse for not actually immersing wholeheartedly into the simple activity here & now.
Hi HT,
Agreed about the mind wanting something else. While it is probably true that escape may be used in Western psychology, I'd say even yoga can be used to not immerse wholeheartedly in the here and now. We can automatically avoid the issue staring us in the face and retreat into silence (what I was describing as spiritual bypassing) or to blame it on energetic overload.. The ability to immerse wholeheartedly is a learned one, that comes with utter and total willingness to see and deal with whatever comes up.. AKA, surrender.
quote:
Originally posted by HathaTeacher
I agree there are habits/patterns that become obvious during meditation and that map directly onto conditioning in life, world view etc. But, exploring this opportunity and these connections from meditation (typically, shrugging from friction) to all kinds of conditioning fits into a relaxed atmosphere of dokusan/debriefing, satsang, sharing, counselling, etc. - not into the session (to dramatize it to the extreme: in inner skiing or martial arts, it'd pose a serious, physical danger). The staircase from focused relaxed dharana to dhyana (from joriki to zazen) is cumulative. The first step is still in place when we walk our way up.
Very true. No inner skiing or martial arts needed if one can learn the gracious practice of samyama.
quote:
Originally posted by clearmoon
Thanks for your response Kami, that makes a lot of sense to me. I'm certainly not interested in avoiding the shadow self, I just want to be able to strike a balance between sticking to practices and confronting what needs to be confronted. I'd be interested to hear more details from either of you on how you do this...
Hi clearmoon,
Bhakti, surrender to the Ishta, enquiry and samyama work the best here. Sometimes, in difficult-to-face issues, there is enough clarity to see the stickiness, but release happens only when I can enquire into it, let go of it in silence (samyama) and know without a shred of doubt that it will be taken care of (loving surrender). This last part of surrendering is the hardest since we tend to be control freaks. But there is much to be said of bhakti - it can take over and guide us seemingly effortlessly, if only we can give up the sense (and intent, at the subtlest level) of control..
Much love 
kami
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
The Dweller on the Threshold
