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bewell
1275 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 06 2006 : 10:16:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by meg
When we say "I am", where do we place the "I"? Most of us place it in the ego. I am this: this body, this personality, these desires. These particulars are the ego. They are what differentiate me from you. So if you remove that "I", what's left? In other words, once I've detached from my ego, then what is "I"? I've had moments of this detachment, and it feels like sheer bliss. There are no edges, no walls, no "I"; it feels "en-lightened".
Thanks, Meg, I read and re-read your post, then followed in meditation. Ahh the bliss. But then we are still so linked to the "prison" of our particular bodies, personalities and desires. To call it a prison suggests struggle, desire to escape. What if we shift from struggle to acceptance of what is... even as "what is" changes...? |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2006 : 10:36:13 PM
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| Bewell - I agree that the terminology is difficult, as 'prison' and even 'cage' suggest an adverse situation. Captivity sucks. But once we know that the prison door is open, there is the hope for freedom, and the struggle becomes an accepted part of the process. For those souls who don't perceive the open door, there will always be the tiresome struggle. We all know what it's like to be there. Truthfully, I'm just grateful to know that there's a way out! It doesn't end the difficulties, but it makes them tolerable. And there's so much bliss to be had this side of enlightenment that I have to wonder if David is right in suggesting that enlighenment is overrated. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2006 : 09:39:15 AM
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Meg said:
that I have to wonder if David is right in suggesting that enlighenment is overrated.
BTW, I think it is one of the nicest thing that can happen to a person, just like falling in love is one of the nicest things that can happen to a person.
But I believe though that the individual enlightened person is over-rated as a contributor to the solution of world problems -- enlightenment is much less effective at making them saviors of the world or even major helpers with world problems than is commonly believed in yogic circles.
This doesn't say that a mass enlightenment, if possible, would not be a great thing for solving world problems.... |
Edited by - david_obsidian on Jul 07 2006 1:23:47 PM |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2006 : 12:08:57 PM
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Those of us who wonder (myself included) can only wonder. Deep silence and presence in each "moment" give me tantalizing hints.
Peace, alan |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2006 : 1:27:03 PM
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Bewell said:
Thanks, David, for that discerning observation.
Thanks, I'm glad you appreciated it! It's not always a very popular observation! 
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Neesha
215 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2006 : 10:17:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by meg
Have any of you ever met an enlightened person? How does one tell if a person is enlightened? Are any of you out there enlightened? If you were would you say so?
I usually bow to a very spiritual person...not me..... a force makes me...or controls me
An enlighten person usually I can pick them out of the crowd..........your soul and spirit senses them
you can feel their vibrations.......it's very high....peaceful kinda feeling
you can feel the cosmic stuff around them.....
some people lift off the ground around an enligthen person....
I feel extremely high....not alcohol high but really really nice
that's how I know I am around god's true devotee's
Different persons experience different things.......... |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2006 : 10:53:07 AM
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I believe enlightenment is a process of gaining something, and that thing can be also lost. It's common for the person who has gained, and/or people observing it to not realize when it has been lost.
So it's best to not judge people by some sort of intuition of what they have gained inside, but instead judge the actions of people.
The strange thing is that when you judge people's actions, they often have no relation to the spirituality of that person inside. An "un-enlightened person" can do enlightened things, and vice-versa.
So it's better to just work on your own inner spirituality, and learn what you can from other people, and not really pay attention to where they might be along the path. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2006 : 10:57:05 AM
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quote:
But then we are still so linked to the "prison" of our particular bodies, personalities and desires. To call it a prison suggests struggle, desire to escape. What if we shift from struggle to acceptance of what is... even as "what is" changes...?
Hi Bewell,
I believe this subtle shift in perspective is critical in accepting ourselves and not putting new energy into this very "prison" we want freedom from. The war must end within ourselves at some point, it's not a struggle but an acceptance, no longer fearing or resisting the mind and it's irrepressible nature to think of all possibilities. Accept and love that it will do this and thoughts will run out of sustaining energy.
I notice that there is no truth in the mind of thoughts, it is a theory machine without true evidence. I realize I don't actually know anything for sure. My reality is an invention of my thoughts.
Anthem11(I think)
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2006 : 12:02:29 PM
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| "I" thinks therefore "I" is. But the "I" that we've referred to all our lives is . . . what. I can only speak for myself, but assuredly, when I say "I", I refer to my ego. Is it even possible to say "I" when one loses that identification? For the purpose of communication, yes, but in the mind of an enlightened person, there may not be enough separation to produce an "I". Pure bliss. |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2006 : 10:20:53 PM
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| Enlightenment? What's that? Some Faraway tree, a mysterious mystery? I only wandered in looking for a little light to dispel those dark corners inside. Look for it everyday. Some days a little light casts itself on some little dark spot, and I catch a glimpse of something fleeing. What was it, you ask. (shake my head)'I'm still in the dark'. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2006 : 02:03:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Thanks Kirtanman. I just randomly checked Adyashanti's site and pulled this out in about two minutes. Meg, it might apply nicely to the guy who wanted the younger woman he walked with know that he was enlightened:
Adyashanti said:
Do not think that enlightenment is going to make you special, it's not. If you feel special in any way, then enlightenment has not occurred. I meet a lot of people who think they are enlightened and awake simply because they have had a very moving spiritual experience. They wear their enlightenment on their sleeve like a badge of honor. They sit among friends and talk about how awake they are while sipping coffee at a cafe. The funny thing about enlightenment is that when it is authentic, there is no one to claim it. Enlightenment is very ordinary; it is nothing special. Rather than making you more special, it is going to make you less special. It plants you right in the center of a wonderful humility and innocence. Everyone else may or may not call you enlightened, but when you are enlightened the whole notion of enlightenment and someone who is enlightened is a big joke. I use the word enlightenment all the time; not to point you toward it but to point you beyond it. Do not get stuck in enlightenment.
Very cool --- I don't think I could have found a more applicable quote from Adya, myself.
Thanks!
And per another message in this thread, reference Adya's movement from using the term "I", to saying "the mind" and then "I" again - he usually does this pretty seamlessly -- but also simply lives in the real world of "conversational convenience" --- sometimes working really hard *not* to use "I" in a sentence can get a little goofy -- (not to mention egoic) -- and I've never seen Adya do that (though I have seen some people who dialog with him, try).
And ultimately, the quote you reference is kind of the whole point:
If someone says "I am enlightened" -- they're not, because "I"s don't get enlightened -- enlightenment is the realization that there's no one to be enlightened or unenlightened.
It's kind of like, if, upon graduating college (per what I've heard from "graduates", such as Adyashanti) -- *poof* -- your graduation present (and your degree) is the realization that college was just a dream.
(and depending upon where you went .... and when ...... ;-) )
Namaste,
Kirtanman
"There is a time and a place for everything --- and it's called 'College'" -- Homer Simpson. |
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satyan
34 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2006 : 11:07:08 AM
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hi meg and hi all,
Thanks meg for starting this thread. Reading all of your inputs takes to me the point who a real "yogi" is? or an "enlightened" person is.
The first thing that comes to my mind as a answer is
A true yogi is one who does not desire the result of an action.
It is like working a full eight hour shift and not having the inclination to get paid for it.
An incident in the life of Ramana Maharishi comes to my mind. It is the habit of Ramana Maharishi to take a walk in the morning. One day he went out for a walk and it did not return for a long time. Wondering why it is taking such a long time for him to return his disciples went in search for him. There he was sitting at the base of mountain Annamalai making a walking stick out of a tree branch that has fallen. When they saw him he was half way through the process. It took him another three hours to complete it. The disciples thought he was making the stick to help with his walking. They were wrong. Just minutes before he completed making the stick a lame man was crossing by that side. He called him and gave him that stick and walked back to the ashram.
I think that this quality can be taken as a scale to measure one is enlightened or not.
And i think that Yogani the best example of a yogi. |
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enlightenment??
