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hridaya
Finland
6 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 21 2013 : 08:19:27 AM
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Hello!
I've been practicing talabya kriya for a few years and making attempts at kechari for some time. Mostly I've been happy with my practice, feeling an increase in inner silence and stimulation of my third eye from kechari. Still, lately i've come to suspect that I might have taken a wrong turn somewhere. Especially after reading some posts around here. The image provided in the lessons http://www.aypsite.org/kechari_image1.html seems (to me at least) to show the tongue going back and up along the back side of the hard palate. But as I really don't have a good grasp of the anatomy and tend to have a knack for misunderstanding stuff, I thought I should just ask.
So, should the tongue go in between the hard and soft palate in kechari? Pushing forwards and kind of "down" my tongue easily reaches what feels like a septum that is way too sensitive to touch for more than a few seconds. Initially pushing my tongue in here felt kind of wrong, but is this still the right way? It feels more like going forward than up... |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Mar 21 2013 : 2:30:06 PM
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| That sounds like the right track to me. The tongue should slide past the uvula and then forward above the hard palate until it touches that sensitive septum. The oversensitivity should go away with time and practice. |
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Roberto
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 10:54:10 AM
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Hi Victor and Hridaya,
Victor: You are the Kechari Coach  A few questions please:
(1) About how far past the uvula does the tongue need to go before this "forward thrust" can take place ? I am guessing that once enough of the tongue has cleared the entrance that it can be lowered like a gangplank (?) with that forward motion that is referred to ?
(2) How much does tongue length vs frenulum restriction enter into the picture for Stage 2? My uvula seems like it is sooo far back down there. Im on the soft palate now, able to push up on it some, which according to Yogani means Stage 2 is near, and Ive been stretching (not whilst driving like u though..  , but it still doesn't get there.
(3) This technique of using the finger(s) to "cheat" and facilitate first time entry--could you please elaborate ?? Or make a video ? At what point is the pressure applied ?
(4) Going around the side (short way) vs down the center (long way). What does this mean ? You still are going back through that "hole" with the uvula dangling down,right ? does this mean rolling or twisting the tongue to come in sideways at one of the sides of the uvula ?
(5) Does amrit production occur in Kechari Stage 2 or does it take direct pressure on pineal ? I am an amrit addict it seems. Pineal has been erupting, and as I understand it amrit is produced and released when this occurs. The intoxication feeling (AYP term, I would say fullness/completeness--like the 'manna from heaven' implies) is truly addictive. As an aside, lately I had major blood work done and the docs were very surprised that issues that should have been there werent..So I'm very motivated to get to kechari stage 2 to say the least.
Better stop now. Thanks much for your input!!
Rob |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 3:20:56 PM
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Rob,
To answer your first question all you need to do is clear the uvula and slide the tongue over it and forward.the soft palate is basically a flap of skin that is not very thick at all and the uvula is at the back of it. Just wiggle your tongue around the uvula so that it slides over it and then slide the tongue forward so that the bottom of the tongue slides over the soft palate. There is a chamber there that will be a perfect fit for your tongue once the flexibility is there. Once you have reached the soft palate you don't have very far to go, maybe an inch at the most, probably much less.I don't really know how to compare frenum vs tongue length as I haven't really compared various tongue flexibilities with others. I would say that I have a comparatively large and flexible tongue to start with and relatively little frenum resistance so never did the snipping. Maybe that makes it harder for me to teach as it was less strugle than for most.
As far as Amrit is concerned, i don't really have a lot to say on the topic. The physical practice of Kechari is easy for me and I use it in daily practice and I am aware of various secretions from that area but not of some "magical nectar" that I hear about. For me it has more to do with flow or energy and breath. The reason that I don't feel much significance ( in my own experience) of the secretions is that the effects of Kechari are felt by me only while my tongue is actually in the position rather than a lingering druglike effect from some secretion. Maybe Yogani could elaborate on that a bit as it seems that there is some misunderstanding about the "nectar" and its significance. I see secretions as part of an overall picture involving an energetic shift due to daily practice but less of a psychedelic sort of effect do to amrit secretion. That said, maybe I am just used to it and don't really notice so much.
I hope this was of some help and I am happy to clarify further if you like.
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Roberto
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 5:07:12 PM
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Dear Victor,
Thanks for the quick and detailed response. It is really appreciated. So a little more here.
In the AYP archives there is a similar post, few years back. I think the idea of laser trimmming could be brought into the main teachings more. There was/is no way I could ever take a cuticle scissors and snip, what with the near-sightedness and lack of finger dexterity, there would be a 911 call  . This put/scared me off from the kechari part of AYP teachings for a long time actually. So, few months back, called 3 dentists and found one that would do the laser frenulectomy sight unseen. (This is SoCal, apparently lots of folks do it for physical vs spiritual reasons ). Turns out Ive been tongue tied without a speech impediment. So the dentist is working with me  and I will keep folks here apprised of the results. The amount they can trim with a laser is Lots more than with home operatory snippers . I'm almost there with two laser zaps in several months, . After the first time all desire to enter kechari abated (I'm not ready!!) Then it came back.
Alas, unlike YOU  I am woefully short of tongue, in addition to the tight architecure. That being said, how much longer can the tongue get from stretching ? The additional inch you referenced in your post ? Will that be enough ? And how much of the tongue needs to be "in the hole" ? 1/4 of your entire tongue 1/8 ? does that "elastic tendon' swing open with very little mass of the tongue being pushed forward on it ? Thanks again Victor, hope the additional questions are OK.
Rob |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 01:34:04 AM
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| Your tongue doesn't need to be an inch longer, it just needs to stretch the inch or so from where the hard and soft palate meet. It is not a matter of tongue length but of stretching it back enough |
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hridaya
Finland
6 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 06:46:09 AM
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Thanks, Victor!
Having tried this for a few days I really have to say WOW! That's a major jump forward from kechari stage 1,5 where I guess I could say I was mentally stuck. Most of the oversensitivity seems to have faded and I can now rest my tongue on the septum for a few minutes at a time. I do seem to get slight overload symptoms though, so I should probably back off a little bit.
Roberto have you looked into doing talabya kriya? It really helped me get from not being able to touch the uvula to going over half an inch past it, and now easily reaching the far end of the nasal septum. |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 09:18:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
some "magical nectar" that I hear about
Yeah, I thought I would become immortal and have to fight The Krogan from Highlander! But no, I have the washing-up to do. |
Edited by - woosa on Mar 23 2013 09:18:51 AM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 10:07:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
Maybe Yogani could elaborate on that a bit as it seems that there is some misunderstanding about the "nectar" and its significance. I see secretions as part of an overall picture involving an energetic shift due to daily practice but less of a psychedelic sort of effect do to amrit secretion. That said, maybe I am just used to it and don't really notice so much.
Hi Victor and All:
Yes, that is correct. Nectar, and ecstatic conductivity in general, are aspects of an awakening kundalini. This is the product of all of our practices, not exclusively any particular one that may contribute, like kechari. It can happen without kechari also. Each technique brings something to the table, and sometimes the table (of yoga) brings the technique. We call that impulse "automatic yoga." It is the connectedness of yoga operating within us, which can manifest as more bhakti (spiritual desire) and physical movements that accommodate increased inner energy flow. Many discover kechari and other mudras and bandhas this way, without ever having heard of them.
Once we become acclimated to the "energetic shift," then we may not notice the contrast as much, as you mentioned. The real question is, is life outside practices getting better? That is the true test of our practice. We should manage our practices, including bhakti and automatic yoga tendencies, for good progress with comfort and safety. If the quality of our life is improving, we will know we are on the right track.
Here are a few lessons that point to the broader aspects of whole body ecstatic conductivity and the nectar cycle:
Whole Body Mudra: http://www.aypsite.org/212.html
Nectar: http://www.aypsite.org/133.html
Diet, Kundalini and the Nectar cycle: http://www.aypsite.org/304.html
More can be found in the topic index.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Roberto
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 11:34:23 AM
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Thanks all. So stage Two is all about that rascal frenulum. Cool, so it is just a matter of time. Been doing talabya for a few months now and am lots further (having been hit by the laser 2x so far) I was really tongue tied, which now seems like good news..
My only perception of amrit having been released is the awesome feeling of completeness or something. Never felt anything psychedelic or intoxicating, maybe eurphoric. It only seems to happen here coincident with those extreme vibrations that occur in cranium during AM DM session. I know its gonna be a good day when this happens, and it is missed when doesn't. So in terms of quality of daily life there is absoluely an effect, in fact thats the only thing noticed. No taste, no smell, no waxy feeling etc.
So what about using the finger to push it up. That seemed to be the suggested way for the new folks, where is the pressure applied ? At the base of the tongue or towards the tip ? Maybe this is a stupid question
Thanks all and Congrats Hridaya. Sounds like you are there !!
Namaste all
Rob |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 5:58:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
So what about using the finger to push it up. That seemed to be the suggested way for the new folks, where is the pressure applied ? At the base of the tongue or towards the tip ? Maybe this is a stupid question
Hi,
I used the finger method two or three times in the beginning, to help me enter stage 2, before I learnt to enter it without the fingers. It was definitely a great help in transitioning from stage 1 to stage 2. In my experience it was necessary to roll the tongue back, with the tip of it pointing backwards. Then I applied some pressure with two fingers quite near to the base of the tongue and simply tried to push it somehow past the edge of the soft palate, regardless of the frenulum getting in the way. I did this standing in front of a mirror and checking what I'm doing. I didn't succeed the first couple times but kept trying.
Good luck! |
Edited by - mimirom on Mar 25 2013 6:15:31 PM |
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khechari
Ukraine
13 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2013 : 10:40:39 AM
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The same issues seem to have been discussed already a while ago.
I can repeat that it took me 2 months to push the tongue into the phase 2, I did this with fingers and there was a lot of saliva flowing, so needed a handkerchief. Touching the septum feels very pleasant - has a cooling feel and a sour-sweet taste. Otherwise no effects (besides a headache if overdone) , I am still at stage 2 not knowing where to move the tongue now, it moves only forward, no way upward as there's a "roof" there.... |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2013 : 4:10:47 PM
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| Once you have reached stage 2 I would not worry about where to push the tongue. Just relax there and get so that it becomes effortless during your practice. Any further developments will come of their own with time. The primary challenge is getting the tongue up and forward past the uvula so that the tip can reach the inner nostril holes.After that just rest the tongue there till you can do that without any strain.. |
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Roberto
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2013 : 8:18:07 PM
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Victor, Our Coach, (that never had to deal with the frenulum)
Thanks for all the on-point advice
So Glad You Have recovered from the crash.
Peace
Roberto |
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