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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 02 2006 : 11:00:33 AM
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At the time I was a student, I was trying to read a book and losing that concentration and coming back to it. I wanted to read and concentrate and used to find it challenging and interesting why I cant keep the concentration like that without losing it.
I find this similar to meditation in the aspect that we lose concentration and come back to something. Not only reading, everything we try to do in life is somewhat related to this where we try to concentrate and do something and lose it occasionally. Why doesnt this enlighten us?
What is the specific thing in meditation that is not there in reading or other acts of life. Is it concentrating on one mantra instead of concentrating on many things? Or is the word we chose for mantra itself which has some power. Or is it the difference in the goals in our mind?
-Near |
Edited by - AYPforum on Feb 04 2007 12:21:27 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2006 : 12:11:26 PM
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I would choose the last option.
I believe it is "intent". Many saints have reached great heights using all sorts of methods, the only common one being bhakti. |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2006 : 12:23:31 PM
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When I am reading something, then I try to grasp the truth in it.
Trying to grasp the truth is in a way some kind of meditation.
Sometimes when I read a book the second time, I grasp other aspects
of truth. When we loose concentration, then may be we are not
ready to grasp the truth.
Reading a book, meditating on a mantra, its all concentration
of your mind, trying to get in touch with higher spirit.
just my 2cts |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2006 : 12:57:52 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I think all these processes are intellectual. Even in meditation we are asked not to intellectualize coz it brings us back to the surface where the mental processes reside. Instead we need to go deep and clean up there.
When we read or do anything, we are thinking and using our mind. Intention also matters I guess. Because in prayer, we do intellectualize and feel emotional about the god. But prayer is a good spiritual practice too. But there most of our energies are concentrated towards god/spirituality |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2006 : 1:50:31 PM
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Hi Near and All:
The difference between meditation and what we do when concentrating in daily activity is in the absence of content (meaning) in the mantra. In deep meditation we are systematically picking up the thought of a particular sound with no meaning, and this leaves the mind/attention free to expand to its native inner silence -- infinite pure bliss consciousness. The vibrational characteristics of the mantra (not any meaning) have an influence on how this expansion of attention takes place, and its subsequent effects in the nervous system.
Of course, there is some similarity in concentrating on meaning in our daily activity -- the mind can let go of meaning and go to quieter states in that way also, though it is not nearly as efficient as systematic deep meditation using mantra with no meaning involved. Nevertheless, the letting go after concentrating on meaning can and does bring the silent inspiration of genius that lies within all of us, proportional to the degree that inner silence is available in us at a point in time. This is also the principle of samyama, which is a systematic way of letting go of specific meanings (sutras) into inner silence to achieve global purification in our nervous system and beyond. Samyama is the means by which inner silence is brought into more active manifestation in our daily living.
In time, rising inner silence becomes a dynamic in everything we do -- which brings us back to the significance our daily activity. So, when we are doing something, fading off from it, and returning to it, we are returning to it with our attention established increasingly in inner silence. This makes all of daily life more purposeful and powerful -- a kind of automatic ongoing samyama, an outer expression of the divine within us. Then, indeed, all of life becomes meditation/samyama. But to get to that stage, it is necessary to cultivate our inner silence efficiently via deep meditation. Cultivating inner silence only by concentrating on meaning, losing it, and coming back again, is not nearly as efficient as deep meditation. If it were, we'd be making much more progress without deep meditation in the picture.
With systematic deep meditation (using mantra with no meaning), everything becomes much more powerful.
As for the role of bhakti, real bhakti is inner silence stirred to activity by our desire. If we are actively surrendered to our most cherished ideal, then this stimulates us deep inside similar to the way samyama does. Of course, we do not actively engage in devotional activity while doing our other practices (we always favor the practice we are doing over all other experiences). If we have strong bhakti (desire/surrender to grow) in our life it will be there as an inner habit all the time. Then, whatever practice we are doing will be amplified in its effects. It all works together like that...
The guru is in you.
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2006 : 3:17:34 PM
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Hi Near,
I would agree with Yogani on this but would add that even though the mantra has no meaning (unless you understand sanskritlol)it makes no difference.The vibration of the mantra is what has the effect and of course this makes the difference in meditation or simply drifting.I can easily drift into the alpha state even when talking to others but of course if I was using the mantra I would expect a difference.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes'
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2006 : 11:54:56 PM
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Thanks for the reply yogani and others. Bhakti is something very important to progress in spiritual life. If we just do our daily meditation and other times we keep thinking about something else, I dont think it will produce effective results.
Having a married life or relation and still not letting it consume us; Being in the world but still being as attached to god as yogis in caves are; Love your partner but not let this love overshadow the love towards your parent/god.
Though tough, if we can manage all these things, results can be profound.
-Near
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2006 : 12:14:57 AM
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Near, the answers given above will answer why mantra is better than reading, but won't answer, for example, why mantra is probably in most people better than breath-watching.
We can come up is sorts of explanations for such things, but I think the real answers are deep in human neurology and have no other explanations that are satisfactory: in other words, mantra works better than watching breath because it can more easily trigger some important (and immensely complex) neural dynamics than breath-watching can.
(I personally conjecture that the neurodynamics of mantra meditation is related to the neurodynamics of suckling in the infant, and that it can trigger healing and growing processes that are triggered in the developing infant but usually stop in most people at a very early age.)
Of course, you don't need to know the details of why and how. It happens 'under the hood'.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2006 : 11:02:46 PM
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I think it triggers the neurodynamics through vibration.
All of creation is the result of vibration. |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 06:31:05 AM
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| I have read about Dr.Herbert Benson's research on "relaxation response" that occurs from doing meditation. It is the opposite of "flight or fight response". His research showed that repitition is the key to this response, and not the actual word used. Hence I used to think that the effect of meditation is basically obtained by tuning into a rythm. What I'm saying is my personal observation of course and experienced meditators should not take offence. Bluntly putting, 2 states of mind - reciting mantra and the time period between mantra. May be we can achieve meditative state in daily actions as well by identifying this rythm. It is like a binary representation of a decimal number using only 2 states. People who have studied digital signal processing will recognize that what I'm saying is analogous to 'quantization' of a analog signal with digital signals using only 2 states. Since only 2 states are involved the error in transmission is very much reduced compared to analog transmission where many states are involved. |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 5:31:28 PM
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Hi,
This still doesn't answer how listening to mantras etc have an effect.The Divine Sound by guruji has effect on the very first sound even before any repetition and I am sure other sounds have similar effects.Scientific research also shows that different effects are experienced depending on whether we listen, read, recite aloud or recite in our heads.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes'
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2007 : 12:21:27 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Arent we meditating all our life?
