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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 18 2006 : 09:36:39 AM
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Hi!
I am thinking of doing water fasting once a week for 24-36 hrs but was told by an Ayurveda doctor that people with Vata constitution should not fast at all. Does anyone know abt that?
Also I am reading books that recommend purifying the tap water by distillation or osmosis. Does anyone here use any of these methods?
Thx,
Lili |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2006 : 6:36:37 PM
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I think it's unhealthy for a person of any dosha to fast. Especially with reverse osmosis water or steam distilled water...as these don't have any hard minerals and suck all of the nutrients out of your body. This is why survival experts say not to drink melted snow, because it hasn't picked up any minerals. It dehydrates you.
Spiritually, I think people benefit from doing these types of things. A lot of people say they are good for that. In my opinion, it's a matter of sacrificing your health for your spirituality. We have so many techniques here on AYP, that we don't really need to do it....but of course, it's a matter of bhakti. Of being guided by what you feel is right.
So do what seems right for you, Lili.
-Scott |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2006 : 7:26:45 PM
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Hi Lili,
I don't know, but one thing I believe in is 'never say never'. Saying that vata people should not fast at all sounds too extreme. Perhaps it is unsuitable, or hard, for many vata people though.
Partial agreement with Scott -- if you are fasting, I think you might be better to watch your 'electrolyte' balance, and do not use pure, distilled water (which might lead to temporary headaches and muscle-pains and washed-out feeling due to electrolyte imbalance). Instead, drink water with some salt in it, and maybe some other minerals. Why go for purified water at all, if you are going to add minerals?
I wouldn'g go as far as Scott in the opinion that fasting is generally unhealthy for the body. Quite the opposite, I think it is quite good for you when done in moderation.
quote:
Originally posted by Lili
Hi!
I am thinking of doing water fasting once a week for 24-36 hrs but was told by an Ayurveda doctor that people with Vata constitution should not fast at all. Does anyone know abt that?
Also I am reading books that recommend purifying the tap water by distillation or osmosis. Does anyone here use any of these methods?
Thx,
Lili
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 18 2006 7:27:39 PM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2006 : 8:15:37 PM
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David,
I may be wrong about it being unhealthy. Most nutritionists, from what I know, don't consider it healthy. It messes with your metabolism, blood sugar, horomones, etc. I don't claim to know anything about this...perhaps these nutritionists and myself are wrong. A good example of a majority of nutritionists being wrong is when they tried to claim that low-fat high-carbohydrate diets were the healthiest for you. People ended up becoming obese and full of disease.
Personally, it seems unhealthy to me because you're ignoring your body's signals. I don't think eating all the time is good for you, because I've noticed I became lethargic when doing that. It seems the best to eat when you get hungry, and don't overeat.
Do you have any info on how or why fasting is healthy? I'm interested!
-Scott |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2006 : 06:31:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Do you have any info on how or why fasting is healthy? I'm interested!
-Scott
Thanks to both of you for the responses!
Yes I was reading in several sources (including Paul Bragg and Swami Sivananda and some other East European that you wouldn't know or care about) that you should do 1 day of water fasting per week to remove toxins and 1 or 2 longer fasts per year. Basically you can read here:
http://www.healingdaily.com/juicing.../fasting.htm some of the arguments.
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2006 : 06:51:20 AM
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Hi Lili,
Naturopaths have a whole system of fasting... but it's a gradual movement to water from certain kinds of light foods, then juices, then water. But as Scott says, Bhakti can change it all... I know several Muslims who fast the whole day for 30 days in a row in hot Indian summers, sweating out their guts, and not even drinking a drop of water, without any adverse effects. But then their bhakti is very high. If you are doing it for spiritual reasons, it should just come to you, rather than having to go about it in an analytical manner. Doshas do play a role. One friend, high on vaata, fasted on raw veggies and fruit one fine day,(spiritual reasons) and got terrific acidity, and threw up all evening. |
Edited by - sadhak on Jun 19 2006 07:47:39 AM |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2006 : 08:11:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sadhak
One friend, high on vaata, fasted on raw veggies and fruit one fine day,(spiritual reasons) and got terrific acidity, and threw up all evening.
Thx Sadhak. No at least for the moment I want to fast for physical purification reasons after having read some materials. I already did a couple of 24-36 hrs fast on water only without any adverse effects. I have not noticed any big positive effects either but again it is just 2 times far between. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2006 : 11:56:48 AM
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Scott said:
Most nutritionists, from what I know, don't consider it healthy. It messes with your metabolism, blood sugar, horomones, etc.
Their view is overly first-order; they are right in the small and wrong in the large. They are taking a short-term, limited view. There is no doubt at all that fasting upsets or disturbs or messes with these things in the short-term (during the fast). But disturbances and stresses (of the right kind and in balance) can be very health-giving in the large.
An example of disturbances that are health giving is exercise. Doesn't strenuous exercise mess temporarily with your blood-pressure and heart-rate? In the small, exercise drives up your blood-pressure and heart-rate. In the large, it reduces both of them, which is usually what you want.
If disturbances have a good effect, we might call them challenges instead.
Check out also:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1030
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 19 2006 12:01:53 PM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2006 : 10:59:32 PM
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Very interesting stuff, thank you. I stand corrected!
-Scott |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2006 : 11:21:09 AM
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So the past few months I've been cleaning up my diet by going vegan and swiggin carrot/celery juice. That being done, it's back to my fasting research.
I shifted to eating once a day, which is okay. The best part of that is that you can do 2 meditation sessions in one day on an empty stomach.
Right now, I'm experimenting with regular, intermittent fasting. Fasting once every X number of days.
There's an interesting book "The QOD Diet" which is written by a kidney doctor discussing eating every other day (and eating very lightly on the 'fasting' days.) He runs a forum and answers all questions on eatqod.com. As a kidney doctor, he's very up on the whole mineral thing. So it's a good, albiet conservative, resource.
Here's an interesting link on the similarities between fasting and meditation:
http://www.yogamag.net/archives/198...syfast.shtml
According to the link, there's a residual "meditative" effect of fasting that lingers fairly powerfully which might could be a real advantage to a meditator.
Just fast every X days and that might be helpful to one's practice.
Another scientific nugget that I've found is that mice fed every other day seem to live longer than the all you can eat mice, so there may be health benefits to it as well.
Before I cleaned up my diet, my fasting experience was too challenging to handle while working. For me, phasing out caffeine, meat, dairy, and high fats in general seems to make fasting easier. Having said that, fasting two days in a row plus AYP is too much stimulation.
But fasting one day is fine and is an impressive tonic to all aspects of practice.
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2006 : 12:09:16 PM
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Here's a great poem about fasting:
There's a hidden sweetness in the stomach's emptiness.
We are lutes, no more, no less.
If the sound box is stuffed full of anything, no music.
If the brain and the belly are burning clean with fasting,
Every moment a new song comes out of the fire.
The fog clears, and new energy makes you run of the steps in front of you.
Be emptier and cry like reed instruments cry.
Emptier, write secrets with the reed pen.
When you are full of food and drink, Satan sits where your spirit should,
An ugly metal statue instead of the Kaaba.
When you fast, good habits gather like friends who want to help.
Fasting is Solomon's ring.
Don't give it to some illusion and lose your power,
But even if you have, if you have lost all will and control,
They come back when you fast,
Like soldiers appearing out of the ground, pennants flying above them.
A table descends to your tents, Jesus' table.
Expect to see it, when you fast,
This table spread with other food, better than the broth of cabbages.
-Rumi
It's literally true about the brain and the belly burning clean... you can feel it.
I'd like to develop myself as a writer in the next few years, so that's another motivation behind my fasting practice, as it increases artistic sensitivity as alluded to above.
Plus shed a few pounds! I read "Fasting: The Ultimate Diet". I find that title so funny for some reason. It might be too difficult for somebody on a normal American diet to do comfortably, imo, but might fit the bill for some.
There's an effect that is often mentioned that there is a residual effect of fasting on one's hunger afterwards, that there's less "boredom" or "comfort" eating after a fast. I don't know how long this effect may last. My guess would be as long as the peaceful brainwave benefits linger as mentioned in the above post.
One of the challenges of fasting is in remembering to do it in the first place. That's where having a monthly/weekly schedule could be a good thing. I have discovered the invigorating effects of fasting on 5 different occations in my life. Each time, I was blown away by how lovely it is and then each time the habit dissapeared in the fog.
So this time I want to keep it! Something like fasting once every 7 days or something. And if the 7th day is a social occation, maybe toggle it to the 8th day. Something like that.
Right now, I'm experimenting with eating every other day like in the QOD book, but just water on the fasting days. Surprisingly, my favorite days are my fasting days. When I fast I begin to go down a path that I've always wanted to take.
I'll find the right balance sooner or later. I'm guessing that if one fasts one day every 60 days but the approaching date feels onerous, then one's body has forgotten the benefits and possibly it would be good to fast more often than that.
I'll just trial and error it till I find my best balance point. |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2006 : 6:51:43 PM
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| So at approx. 2 weeks of alternate day fasting the energetic effects of fasting have lessened considerably and the practice is feeling more natural. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2006 : 8:08:45 PM
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Namaste everyone!
I was first introduced to the health benefits of yogic fasting in the mid-1960's. Initially, I was advised to do a three day fast through the course of a weekend, from Friday morning through Sunday night. During the week prior to commencing the fast, the most difficult foods to digest and eliminate, such as meat of any kind, were removed from the diet, and progressively other solid food items as well, until only fruit juices, vegetable juices, herb teas, and filtered mineral water were consumed during the last 24-36 hours before the fast.
During the fast, I was instructed to drink plenty of filtered mineral water as a means of flushing toxins from the body, and in order to loosen and flush out old fecal waste stored in the colon. The increased water consumption also prevented the hunger pangs I had anticipated from not eating by keeping the stomach filled to some extent, not allowing it to be totally empty for too long of a time period. Additionally, I was advised to spend the time that would normally be given to food preparation, consumption, and clean-up in meditation instead....which I did. Talk about feeling a profound Lightness of Being! This might be a key factor in developing levitation skills. 
I felt a marked overall energy surge during the fast, instead of tired from not eating as I had expected, and all of my sensory perceptions were acutely magnified. In fact, I felt so good, and was so surprised by the experience of the fast that I decided to repeat this weekend fast once per month for several months thereafter to insure that I had completely detoxified my body, especially the colon.
Then, in 1969 I fasted for 90 days straight....the first 30 days consuming only water, and the following 60 days also taking fruit and vegetable juices and herbal teas, along with a natural sourced vitamin and mineral supplement. On two other occaisions since then, I have repeated the 30 day water fast, taking only lots of water but nothing else. I can say without hesitation that I have received great benefits from my fasting through the years, and never felt that it harmed me in any way. 
My health improved. My yoga and tai-chi chuan practices made quantum leaps in skill levels. My energy and vitality increased exponentially every time. And so for me, these experiences were very positive. As a result, I have fasted at least two days every week for several decades to date, usually Wednesdays and Fridays, and do a three day weekend fast, like my very first fast, four times each year at the Equinox and Solstice times to prevent seasonal change illnesses such as allergies, head colds and flus that commonly occur when the temperature, humidity and barometric pressure changes with the Seasons.
As a result of this long term practice of regular fasting, combined with dietary changes and Sadhana practices, my last internal illness of any kind was in October of 1967.  Aside from externally caused problems such as food poisoning, toxic fumes, and the like, or the occaisional cut, bruise, or burn, I have been illness and disease free since then for just short of 40 years to date! 
I have instructed and guided countless other individuals in the same methods....with the same results....proving thereby that it is the methods which are very special, not the individual who personally demonstrates their benefits. As such, I am convinced that these practices are both physically and spiritually of great value, and can be used by virtually anyone who employs the proper methods. I do think it is wise, however, to do a first fast or two with the supervision of an experienced teacher or guide to insure that it is being performed properly and safely. Once learned, the fasting methods can be repeated without supervision as wanted or needed. For example, nothing will knock out a seasonal head cold or allergy bout faster than a fast, IMO, and a Spiritual Retreat or Meditation Retreat can be much enhanced by a simultaneous fast.
Done carefully, and proceeding cautiously in short fasts to begin with, fasting is likely to be a positive and beneficial experience for most people. Good luck...and May the Force be with you! 
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Nov 26 2006 8:30:27 PM |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2006 : 9:45:35 PM
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Doc,
Impressive and inspiring!
-Yoda |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2006 : 11:50:14 PM
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Thanks, Yoda!
I forgot to mention that the fast should be ended the same way as it was begun by ingesting only fluid nutrients on the first day after breaking the fast, gradually adding one's normal variety of food items back into the daily diet over several days time. This is the reverse of the preparation method used prior to beginning the fast.
As such, after completing the fast, the most easily digested and eliminated foods should be eaten first, followed by other food items in turn, adding the meats and other slowly digested and eliminated items back into the daily dietary menu last. In this way, the gastro-intestinal system is not traumatized with its hardest tasks immediately after its 'vacation' rest. 
These recommendations are specifically in regards to fasts of three days or longer, more so than in regards to an occaisional one day only water fast.
But please don't ever do as one of my classmates did. He broke his first three day weekend water fast with a huge Arby's Roast Beef Sandwich for lunch on Monday, and paid the price of serious gastronomic distress, with alot of cramping and much suffering for the remainder of the day.   What a bonehead! He thought he was going to die, and was quite unhappy that our Teacher had no sympathy for his agony. He had been instructed not to do such a thing, just like the rest of us were, but.....! I learned from his experience that what might appear to be a seemingly insignificant decision can sometimes have nasty consequences.
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Nov 27 2006 12:46:15 AM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2006 : 03:55:51 AM
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Hi Doc
Thanks for the great posts on fasting.
I wondered if you have any comments on the "grape fast". I have done this one a few times and find it much easier than a pure water fast.
Furthermore, I read, and hear from a friend, that red or black grapes contain several ingredients which are poisonous to cancer cells. Apparently the medical profession in South Africa acknowledge this and recommend it.
This cancer connection is an attraction to me since doing the occasional three day grape fast might mean I am also detoxing myself of a potential cancer cell build up.
One link on this
http://www.cancertutor.com/Cancer/GrapeCure.html
As I say, any comments would be appreciated from yourself, or anyone else.
Louis |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2006 : 10:48:06 AM
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Namaste Louis!
As I was taught by Swami Narayanananda, a 'fast' is to totally abstain from ingesting anything that would stimulate the gastro-intestinal system's bio-chemistry. This means only drinking purified mineral water for a specified period of time, whether for a single day only or for an extended period of time, thereby giving the digestive system a nice little 'vacation' for needed cleansing, rest, and recuperation. Although other dietary regimens are sometimes referred to as a 'fast', they are actually 'restricted diet plans' or 'liquid diet plans.
For example, the ever popular 'carrot juice fast' or 'unfiltered apple juice fast' are both technically a liquid diet plan, not a 'fast'. Similarly, to ingest only grapes would be a 'restricted diet plan', because ingesting grapes, like any other food or drink items aside from pure water alone, stimulates the actions and functions of the digestive system, and is therefore not a fast.
I have not personally ever experienced the 'grape diet', so I can't comment on its benefits one way or the other, although I do enjoy eating grapes of all varieties regularly. I can say, however, that the benefits you refer to are derived from specific bio-chemical compounds and nutrients found in the skin and seeds of the grapes, not in the actual juicy fruit-body of the grapes. These health promoting nutrients and compounds are extracted from the grape seeds and sold as 'Grape Seed Extract' supplements. The following links provide further info on this extract, and the findings of research done on it thus far. 
http://www.anyvitamins.com/grape-se...act-info.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...18093946.htm
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/gdgrapes.htm
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Nov 30 2006 10:54:39 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2006 : 11:11:45 AM
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For example, the ever popular 'carrot juice fast' or 'unfiltered apple juice fast' are both technically a liquid diet plan, not a 'fast'.
Doc, 'fast' has for centuries had more than one meaning, one being totally abstaining from food, another meaning eating a restricted diet, usually with a spiritual connotation. The monks who 'fast through all of lent advent' are generally on a restricted diet during that period, not totally abstaining from food. As a matter of language, there is nothing irregular about referring to these things as juice fasts. Swami Narayanananda may be an expert on yogic fasting, but I'm guessing he'd laughingly recognize that he is not an expert on English.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Nov 30 2006 11:34:39 AM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2006 : 1:00:03 PM
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David:
You are preaching to the choir once again!  And in my case, as an Ordained Antiochian Greek Orthodox Deacon, I follow the required dietary restrictions throughout three different 'Lenten Fasts' each year. Thus, I am well aware of religious and other popular uses of the term 'fast'.
As I stated in my previous post, the Ramakrishna Universal Yoga System, as taught by Swami Narayanananda, defines a true 'Fast' as ingesting water only. This is meant to prevent confusion among students when encountering other uses of the term.
Assumptions and 'mind reading' are thinking errors! If you were to read any of Swami Narayanananda's excellent books, you would quickly discover that his command of the English language was probably equal to or better than yours!  As such, he deliberately defined and used the word 'Fast' as he did in order to clarify his teaching in comparison to so-called 'juice fasts', 'Lenten Fasts', or other uses of the term which reference something other than what he was specifically talking about.
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Nov 30 2006 1:45:22 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2006 : 1:37:20 PM
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Oh whatever. Quite right of Narayananda to use his own terminology and to be precise with it. I assumed nothing about Narayananda, only guessed as I said, in quite a respectful way. But there is nothing wrong at all with the language of a 'juice fast' and your post seemed to be saying there was. That's all.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Nov 30 2006 2:26:16 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2006 : 1:49:02 PM
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And in my case, as an Ordained Antiochian Greek Orthodox Deacon
P.S. As a person brought up Catholic, I apologize for the Crusades. Our bad!  
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Nov 30 2006 2:00:04 PM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2006 : 2:13:06 PM
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David:
It's hardly whatever! Your deliberate disrespect for my Guru doesn't go unnoticed. Swamiji's name is Narayanananda, not 'Narayanda'.
It is unfortunate that you didn't have an opportunity to learn from him directly, but his many excellent books remain as a veritable Gold Mine of valuable information and teaching on all aspects of Yoga Sadhana. While he was still among us physically, he had a way of sorting out guys like you with a Laser Beam intensity of focused insight and a Tidal Wave of Spiritual Energy and Divine Presence that had to be experienced to be believed.
Hari OM!
Doc |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2006 : 2:25:08 PM
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| How did he sort them out? |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2006 : 2:29:27 PM
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Doc, maybe that's a joke about my deliberate disrespect for Narayananda, but if it isn't, I assure you that no disrespect towards the man was intended at any level.
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2006 : 9:06:51 PM
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David:
Thanks for the clarification. Not a problem!
Scott:
Swami Narayanananda sorted out each person coming into his personal presence by looking within them in a way that most of us had never experienced with anyone previously. He could 'see' a person's innermost thoughts and feelings, their most staunchly guarded secrets, their greatest virtues and shortcomings, and would prove it by verbalizing what he saw in a way that was downright unsettling to most folks.
He would ask people direct and pointed questions about their favorite sins, their most cherished attachments, their most frequently told lies, about things that each person believed hidden to all and known only to themself. At the same time, he was able to 'see' each person's greatest potential and as yet unexplored or unexperienced greatness, and would encourage them to follow their intuition and inner calling, regardless of the apparent obstacles or impediments to their present or future success.
As a result, those who stuck around and allowed him to strengthen their vulnerabilities and heal their inner wounds were greatly benefited from the experience, and usually made rapid Self-Realization progress in their Sadhana. Others would come to the Ashram one time, and quickly leave, never to return, because they couldn't handle being in the Presence of a Holy Man to whom they couldn't lie. His 'seeing' was sort of a super Darshan that I have not witnessed either before or since sitting at his feet. It was very cool!
Hari OM!
Doc
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2006 : 10:14:04 PM
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| Cool! It's good to have someone like that to help us out. Sorry to sidetrack...I was just wondering what you meant. |
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Water fasting and water distillation/osmosis
