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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 07:03:09 AM
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Hi everyone!
Glad to see people with much more experience writing in this thread .
Doc your account is a real inspiration for people taking up fasting.
Btw I'm an Orthodox Christian also so at present doing the pre-Christmas 'fast' in addition to occasional 1 day water fasts. I was thinking of doing my first 3-day fast around the end of December and your post gave me an additional boost not to put it off any further.
I have a practical question: So far I was doing fasting based on Paul Bragg's books and he recommends breaking the fast with fresh cabbage salad, while you suggest juice. What is the difference?
And also how did you manage to survive a 30 (!!!!??? ) day water fast?
Thanks,
Lili |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 12:36:59 PM
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Doc said:quote:
I have not personally ever experienced the 'grape diet', so I can't comment on its benefits one way or the other, although I do enjoy eating grapes of all varieties regularly. I can say, however, that the benefits you refer to are derived from specific bio-chemical compounds and nutrients found in the skin and seeds of the grapes, not in the actual juicy fruit-body of the grapes. These health promoting nutrients and compounds are extracted from the grape seeds and sold as 'Grape Seed Extract' supplements. The following links provide further info on this extract, and the findings of research done on it thus far.
From my reading I see it recommended that one fasts for 12 hours on water only. This starves the very hungry cancer cells - which are supposedly 15 times more hungry than healthy cells.
When the grape is ingested the cancer cell gobbles up the sugars and also the poisons.
If one was to injest grape juice extract only I wonder would the cancer cell take it without the sugar.
So the process is - starve the cancer cell, feed it with sugar it loves, laced with poisons.
I suppose a grape fast/diet plus the grape juice extract would be a good idea.
Namaste
Louis |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 8:01:13 PM
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Grape seeds are supposed to be full of all kinds of anti-oxidants too:
http://www.mercola.com/products/purple-defense
(I think his stuff is too pricey, but very good info)
I agree that fasting is good for you. I think the one 24 hour day a week water fast is healthy and boosts your immune system. If you've never fasted, there's a speed bump you have to go over, where your body tells you something is wrong, and you're going to get sick. Just ignore that; it's withdrawals from food addiction.
And as people have said, don't drink distilled or highly purified water, as it leeches minerals. Mineral water is good, preferably with balanced electrolytes, not just table salt. There are many "salts" besides NaCl that your body uses. Sports drinks like "gatorade" have them. no, don't fast on electrolyte drinks: they're formulated for extreme activity and too much sugar, but a little is OK.
It is unhealthy to drink excessive amounts of water. Why? because your body will not eliminate pure water. We were built to save water, assuming it would not always be available. So when you drink too much water, first minerals are eliminated to the point of shorting you of minerals, then the water is stored, waiting for something else to flush out. People have actually died from excess drinking of water!
Most people don't drink enough, and have all kinds of problems because of it. 2 or 3 liters a day is normal, some people need more while purifying.
Everyone's metabolism is different, and just because a diet or fast works for one person doesn't mean it will work for you. So make modifications a little at a time and listen to your body.
For instance, I have low blood sugar, so whenever I have tried a fruit juice "fast", it has been disasterous for me. Find your metabolic type, and go from there. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2006 : 12:14:19 PM
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Namaste Everyone!
For those who are unfamiliar with the religious fasts that Lili and I have referred to, Greek Orthodox Christianity encourages its members to observe three different Lenten Fasts during the course of each year. These are meant to be physically and spiritually purifying preparations for three major Feast Days. The longest of the three fasts is that of Great Lent which precedes Pascha or Easter. A shorter Lenten Fast also precedes the Feast of the Nativity of the Lord (Christmas) and the third precedes the Feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos (Falling Asleep of the Blessed Virgin)in July-August. So basically, there are Winter, Spring, and Summer Fasts. Here is associated iconography:
http://greece.byzicons.com/images/b...chv7_300.jpg
(Nativity of Christ)
http://greece.byzicons.com/images/b...hv12_300.jpg
(Lamentations of Great Friday)
http://greece.byzicons.com/images/b...thv2_300.jpg
(Dormition of Theotokos)
In each of these Fasts, specific Dietary Restrictions are observed throughout. The main restrictions are: 1) No Dairy Products...i.e. no milk, no cream, no cheese, no yogurt, no butter, NO ICE CREAM! ; 2) No Animal Products...i.e. no meat, no poultry, no fish, no food items prepared from any these items, like gravy, sauces, and so forth; 3) No Alcohol...i.e. no wine, no beer or ale, no liquor of any kind, and these are not to used in cooking at this time either.
Those who follow the Fast as recommended generally grumble and complain about the restrictions of their favorite foods at first, but usually report that their health dramatically improved by the end of the Lenten Fast, and that mental clarity and spiritual focus were also improved, resulting in enhanced Contemplative Prayer and Meditation Practices. Thus, some people decide to fast accordingly on one or two days each week throughout the year aside from the Lenten Fast Periods, generally every Wednesday and Friday. These weekly fasts are required of all Clergy and Monastics, unless physical disease or other extenuating factors would prevent them from doing so without harm.
Regarding my extended 30 day water fasts in the past, I found that after two or three days of ingesting only water, all hunger pangs completely subsided. Energy levels picked up substantially as more blood and prana became free to circulate internally, as was no longer needed solely for digestion and elimination. 
One of the main obstacles for most people in doing an extended water fast is simply the idea that we will waste away and be totally exhausted unless we eat one or more large meals each day. I found this not to be true for me, and believe that a major reason why was that I supplemented my energy stores by devoting the time normally spent on preparing food, eating it, and clean-up thereafter to meditation, hatha yoga, pranayama, tai-chi chuan, chi-kung, and other energy generating practices instead, as recommended by my Guru, to fill in the gaps so to speak energetically. 
I hope this clarifies things a bit.
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Dec 03 2006 01:45:55 AM |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2006 : 11:47:20 AM
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Very good description of the fasting guidelines.
Actually I had no idea there is a 3d fasting period (in the summer). I only know of 2 before Christmas and Easter. |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2006 : 1:48:01 PM
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Doc,
Some advocate in longer fasts to be in retreat mode and avoid the 9to5 type stuff. What are your thoughts on that?
Thanks,
Yoda |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2006 : 8:18:24 PM
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Hi Yoda!
I agree completely. A Fast longer than one day is usually best done when one can retreat from the normal day to day mental, physical, and energetic demands. This is why the weekend is suggested as a good time for most people to fast longer than 24 hours. Many people don't work on Saturday or Sunday, and can thus be more 'laid back' and relaxed on a Fast done during the free time. Just clear the Saturday and Sunday schedule of unnecessary projects and social plans to take care of yourself as the top priority. Inform others who may need to know that you plan on making a weekend meditation retreat, or a mental health getaway, and JUST DO IT! 
Having said that, it is in fact sometimes easier to do by actually planning a weekend stay at a spiritual retreat facility, a monastery, a zendo, an ashram, or at a friend's cabin in the woods, at their vacation home on the lake somewhere, or their chalet in the mountains, etc.! A place where you won't be distracted by noise and bustle, and can thus make the fasting period a more reflective and meditative 'internal' experience for optimal benefits.
Gosh....that sounds pretty good right now. I may be due for another 'Great Escape/Weekend Fast Getaway myself!
A longer fast can be done while meeting the usual daily work and family responsibilities, but it is generally only the more experienced who are capable of doing so without feeling a bit worse for the effort. Ideally, a fast of longer than two or three days is best done the first time at least somewhere that offers experienced mentoring and supervision during the fast period. That way, if questions arise regarding physical or mental and emotional symptoms, or meditative visions and experiences related to the fast, there is someone close at hand to ask and receive guidance from. Even when done at home, it's wise to let several trusted friends or family members know that you are planning to do a fast of 5 days or whatever, so they can check on how you're feeling throughout, and thus provide a safeguard against overdoing it if you don't respond well in any way to the longer period of fasting. Hope this helped.
http://www.iloveulove.com/images/Jo...20Chakra.jpg
http://www.iloveulove.com/images/sr...a-shakti.jpg
Hari OM!
Doc |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2006 : 5:25:06 PM
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| thanks! |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2006 : 5:43:43 PM
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Doc,
If you ever have time to do an introductory article on fasting that could be posted on this thread and on taobums.com, please feel free!
I'm coming to the conclusion that fasting is a very important ingredient to health and meditative cultivation. Maybe it's not always appropriate, but I don't think that it is as well-known of a method as it deserves to be.
Yours,
Yoda |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2006 : 12:49:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc:
Initially...do a three day fast through the course of a weekend, from Friday morning through Sunday night. During the week prior to commencing the fast, Monday through Thursday, remove the most difficult foods to digest and eliminate...such as meat of any kind...from the diet, and then progressively remove other solid food items as well, until only fruit juices, vegetable juices, herb teas, and filtered mineral water are consumed during the last 24-36 hours before the fast.
During the fast...drink plenty of filtered mineral water as a means of flushing toxins from the body, and to loosen and flush out old fecal waste stored in the colon. The increased water consumption also prevents hunger pangs...from not eating...by keeping the stomach filled to some extent, not allowing it to be totally empty for too long of a time period. Additionally...spend the time that would normally be given to food preparation, consumption, and clean-up, to Meditation instead.
Consider doing a three day weekend fast four times each year...at the Equinox and Solstice times...to energetically balance the entire internal environment...and thus prevent seasonal change illnesses such as allergies, head colds and flus...as well as mental and emotional fluctuations that commonly occur in conjuction with the temperature, humidity and barometric pressure changes at these times.
Consider doing a 24 hour Water Fast at least one day per week during each Season for health maintainance and regular detoxification and purification.
These practices are both physically and spiritually of great value, and can be used by virtually anyone who employs the proper methods. I do think it is wise, however, to do a first fast or two with the supervision of an experienced Teacher or Guide to insure that it is being performed properly and safely. Once learned via gradual personal experience, the fasting methods can be repeated without supervision as desired or needed. Done carefully and mindfully...proceeding cautiously with short fasts initially...fasting is likely to be a positive and beneficial experience for most people.
Namaste Yoda!
I have taken the liberty of editing and quoting one of my previous posts to produce a basic summation of how to approach the practice of a Water Fast. I hope this will suffice in providing some proven and effective guidelines in commencing the practice.
Hari OM!
Doc |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2006 : 10:21:23 AM
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Doc,
That's perfect... I'll put it on Taobums. Thanks!
And, if you are so inclined, I'd also love to have a post like that that I could share regarding the physical, emotional, energetic, spiritual, etc prospective benefits of fasting.
Yours,
Yoda |
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troysantos
Korea
3 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2006 : 10:24:34 PM
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HIYA!
I just joined after reading about fasting. I only read one thread, started by Lili, to which Doc seems to have written the posts that interested most people. I'm really impressed with your posts, Doc. I wonder, if, after the last post about two weeks ago, this thread has lost energy.
******But, Doc, do you know of any other swami, or any other person with the insight that your guru, Swami Narayananda had when he was phyically alive?********
Other than that, I am doing a fast of sorts, not just water, but with bamboo salt and warm water. Both are very important in this program. I've been exhausted. I wonder if I'm just too skinny to fast for more than a day or two. This is the morning of the fifth full day of my fast. I started on Saturday. I had breakfast, then met the monk who asked that I start my fast then. So, no dinner or anything after that breakfast. So Sunday was my first full day of the fast.
Then that evening I went into the temple to combine this fast with meditation. From Monday morning until Wednesday morning I got very little sleep and was exhausted all day. I came home yesterday morning so I could sleep more. This is the first morning I slept as late as my body wanted. Woke up with a headache and with very little energy. That was a few hours ago. I feel better now but not great.
I'm supposed to meditate and do some exercise which I haven't done yet. The meditation is Zen (called Seon in Korea) and the exercise was walking. But since it's so cold outside I've decided to do yoga instead. We're supposed to walk vigorously enough to sweat a little. I feel this is a good idea.
Both the meditation and the exercise contributed to my fatigue. But I feel that the meditation until 10pm and so not getting to sleep until almost 10:30, then waking up at 3:45 hit me harder than the meditation and exercise. I came home mostly so I could sleep as my body and mind want to.
I live in Korea and am following the routine of a Buddhist temple that I frequent. Honestly, I feel that this program is badly designed but I've decided to try it. People have done it in the past and it's fairly popular.
Ah, one more thing that makes this not a fast is that I've had a little bit of whole sugar the past couple of days, at the direction of the monk who runs this program.
Bamboo salt is highly regarded in Korea as a remedy for lots and lots of things, and is seen to clean our bodies in many many ways. No more than a teaspoon three times a day.
Let's see what sort of response this reply brings on. Thanks Lili, Doc and everyone else for the thread.
Troy Santos. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2006 : 05:36:12 AM
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Hi Troy,
Glad you found the thread useful. Doc seems to be the subject matter expert here.
With respect to the monk who runs your program, I suggest before plunging in you try and read up on fasting (especially Western authors with medical background/knowledge). This suggestion might be a bit late for the current situation but useful for the future. Paul Bragg is an authority on fasting and his books are fairly well-known so I am sure you can get access to them.
You did not tell us whether this is your first fast ever and what is your prior experience with fasting. Authors that I have read suggest starting fasting slow--1 day first(which may be 24h--that is breakfast to breakfast or from lunch to lunch next day or 36 hours--one full day). So you might want to try that first once a month for a few months, then twice a month then if you feel like it every week if not not. After that you may attempt longer fasts and be more confident about doing them.
On the exercise program: while fasting more than a day I only lie in bed with a good book. I found meditation and the rest of the AYP routine to be enhanced by fasting and to help the fasting process as it improves your energy condition. So you might want to read about the AYP meditation in the main lessons section of this site.
I don't know anything about bamboo salt or whole sugar so could not comment on these. Hope that helps.
Good luck,
Lili |
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troysantos
Korea
3 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2006 : 10:20:43 PM
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HIYA!
Thanks Lili for your suggestion about the meditation but I'm sticking with this Seon (Zen) meditation as I don't want to mix styles.
No, this is not my first fast. I've done several in past years. I've read quite a bit about fasting - including Paul Bragg - and that's why I can say that I feel this program is badly designed. I mean, eating regularly one day, then fasting the next, and after the fast, eating regularly again! But my friends say that because of the bamboo salt, they don't have any trouble with that eating regime! I won't argue but I'm not interested in doing the same. They all eat meat too! Wow. (Few Koreans, even Buddhists, are vegetarian. But food at most temples is vegan, thank you!)
You know, years ago, in a different life situation, I fasted 24 or 36 hours once a week. It was great. Great.
This is by far the most difficult fast I've ever done. Lethargic all morning, all afternoon, and part of the evening. Then it's hard to fall asleep! My arms and legs don't want any activity. My whole body screams STOP. Actually, the morning of the sixth full day of fasting now, I feel somewhat better. Still not great or even good, but much better. It occured to me last night that maybe this bamboo salt is putting my body to work. While lying (sp?) in bed last night, my stomach was grumbling. I guessed it was working to remove old crud. I've done two enemas using a small amount of warm water since returning home from the temple. The stools were somewhat darker than normal. So I am supposing that the dark stools and so much fatigue are symptoms of my body working - at the insistence of this bamboo salt! - to clean up. I was thinking last night to quit today but since I feel a bit better this morning than previous mornings, I'll put that decision off. I start work on Tuesday but may break before then. The monk has asked me to fast for 15 days, most of which will be with 6 hours of rowdy kids that I teach here in Korea. He agrees that this is not an optimal situation for a fast so he's asked me to fast on
Tuesday, my first day of work then we'll talk that night to see if I should quit or continue. I may break before then if I don't feel up to the situation I'll walk into at school.
All the best to you, Enjoy the holidays, and every day, please. And why not, anyway?!
Troy. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2006 : 01:29:53 AM
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Namaste Troy and Lili:
Thank you both for your kind words!
I was happy to read, Troy, that you are engaging in a structured fasting program, with a mentor to guide and assist you through the process. This is the best way to approach the practice until you've repeated the fasting process enough times to satisfy your mentor of your capability to fast on your own whenever you feel the desire or the need to do so.
Unfortunately, Great Gurus or Illuminated Masters are rarely found by students searching for them. Instead, it is most often like the popular Asian proverb says: "When the disciple is ready, the Guru appears." I believe that this 'readiness' results from spiritual energy synchronization. In my own experience, all of my Teachers found me. I did not find a single one of them. There is no way that I could have deliberately planned or orchestrated the circumstances and situations that led to meeting them initially. And yet, I just happened to be in the right place at the right time to encounter them via serendipity synchronicity!
In other words, when we set spiritual goals for ourselves, such as meeting and studying with a Self-Realized Guru, and we are very precise and clear in our vizualization of exactly what kind of instruction and insight we wish to receive from a Master Teacher, we are then energetically aligning ourselves with whoever has become absorbed and united through their own Sadhana and Samadhi with whatever we are envisioning.
Hence, we enter the same 'wavelength' to some degree and thus begin to 'resonate' with their spiritual energy on some level. Since few people resonate even minimally with the spiritual energy of an Illuminated Guru, those who do will attract the Guru's attention and thus spiritually identify themselves as a potential student or disciple. This is much like seeing something of ourselves in our children, when we were at the same stage as they now are, or like observing someone perform the same tasks that you do, but at a less refined or less skilled level.
So essentially, what you 'see' in your own mind and sincerely 'feel' in your own heart is what you'll get. Vague, non-specific vizualizations will attract vague, generalized opportunities and information. In contrast, laser beam clarity in picturing specific and detailed opportunities and information will similarly manifest that as well. Good luck...and May The Force Be With You!
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Dec 29 2006 02:03:13 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2006 : 02:33:09 AM
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| Different people have different metabolic makeups. For some metabolic types it could be bad to eat sugar and salt and nothing else. i have low blood sugar, and whenever i tried a fast with sugar in it, like lemonade/cayenne fast, it made me feel awful; exhausted, headaches, etc. If i fast on only water I'm fine. Make sure you take into account your metabolic type and medical conditions, or it could be dangerous. |
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troysantos
Korea
3 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2006 : 4:52:36 PM
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HIYA!
Thanks Doc and Etherfish. I'm really taking to heart Doc what you said. Really cool. In fact, my boss brought me to the temple I go to all the time. I didn't ask to go there. Turns out that the monk there is regarded as an enlightened person. I however feel nothing special in his presence other than that he's a generous and sincere guy. Some of the things he says are quite impressive, but I don't have any deep, strong feelings. I'll continue to go, even today, to sit and listen to his Dharma Talk, which I won't understand. We talked, through a friend who translated, for two hours last night. And we'll talk more in depth on Monday evening. I'm lucky (?) to have these wonderful people around me. Last night he admonished me to study Korean harder so I can understand what he says. "Yes!"
As for the fast, Etherfish, I'm actually doing okay now. My stomach grumbles quite a bit and I wonder if this is the bamboo salt stimulating my body to clean out old guk. I asked the monk last night but he just grinned! It's amazing how much energy I'm churning out. I walk and walk and walk and though I am tired afterwards, I still have energy to sit and to do other things. Intention is so important. The monk running this fast says it is safe even for diabetics. Sugar isn't an integral part of the fast, only if one feels completely out of energy. It's actually not whole sugar, as I said in my initial post, what's that anyway?! It's brown sugar. But my friend says it's not just white sugar with molasses added. I'm not so certain but put the thrust of my faith with the monk and my friend.
Best to all of you,
Troy. |
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Water fasting and water distillation/osmosis
