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bewell
1275 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 01 2007 : 5:55:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
... a lot of people at this point claim that they are able to last for many months or years without eating. Now they could all be lying, or accidentally eating without realizing it. Or... ? It seems odd to me. Especially as many of them don't seem to gain anything by making such claims...
Christi, You have not cited your sources for this information. How could I confirm that lots of people are living for more than a month "without eating"? I've read the sun gazing page, but I would like to see it from an "objective" source; a source that isn't also selling inspirational DVDs or otherwise promoting sun gazing. I'd like to see a report published in a mainstream newspaper or scientific journal.
Dr Shah's report on the web page does not count as objective. He talks like a believer. Look at this language:
"Its just fantastic, and absolutely amazing, but this is not a myth. It's not happening in Himalayas or distant jungles. It is happening in Ahmedabad, Gujarat (India) in the continuous presence of public and under strict medical check and supervision by expert doctor team. There is no reason to be skeptical."
That claim, "There is no reason to be skeptical," simply would not be accepted in an American scientific journal. He seems more interested in theory about how it happens than, investigation of whether it happens. And in the theory section, he writes:
"If this theory can be generalized, then it can change the destiny of mankind. First of all, the food crisis will be solved. Through activation of this supreme energy in body the transforming it in electrical, chemical the magnetic forms, person can not only become free of diseases but can gain positive health with a vibrant aura. His luster can impress even enemies the enemity may dissolve. With improvement of mental & intellectual capacities one may be able to use brain power up to 90 to 100 %, as against to 3 - 10% as we normally do. There will be reign of peace and prosperity. As there is no food, the bad thoughts and ill feelings will be stopped, so eternal peace is bound to follow."
His theory is a mix of science and yogic renunciation. I really wish it were true, but I'm not convinced.
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Edited by - bewell on Jul 01 2007 6:36:35 PM |
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blujett8
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2007 : 07:54:02 AM
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| I truly enjoy sungazing but since moving to the Pacific NW I'm having difficulty finding a place to catch the sun near the horizon.....does anyone have any tricks for this or personal advice for finding a sweet location for practice? thanks and peace, Heather |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2007 : 11:34:11 AM
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Hi Bewell,
I am afarid I cannot help you with any objective evidence, or any scientific journals. I doubt the stuff about saving the world too, at least for the time being. I have heard that for someone to be able to live without food they have to have an awakened kundalini and the kundalini energy needs to have risen to at least the crown chakra and fully awakened all the chakras on route. Now that's a pretty tall order, and it is hardly going to happen on a mass scale very soon at any rate.
I plan to give it a go myself towards the end of this year though, so I will let you know how I get on. I will forgoe those wonderful chocolate deserts in the name of truth and scientific research.
Christi |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2007 : 3:43:08 PM
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quote:
I will forgoe those wonderful chocolate deserts in the name of truth and scientific research.
Chocolate just emailed me at my personal address, it says it's disappointed in you. 
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Edited by - Kyman on Jul 03 2007 4:40:38 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2007 : 5:37:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
...I will forgoe those wonderful chocolate deserts in the name of truth and scientific research.
Christi, If you say you've gone more than a month living on sunlight and water alone, I'll say to to you, "Now you know!" Best wishes in your research.
I'm still gazing in the morning on a daily basis. I like the way the energy seems to go through my eyes, fill my skull, then go down. My appetite for food is fairly normal, although, eating of late, seems more a social activity than a personal necessity, especially when I'm eating chocolate chip cookies like today.
Bewell |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2007 : 6:18:23 PM
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mmmm, chocolate chip cookies...
Homer Simpson |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2007 : 01:33:50 AM
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| Since sun gazing is being discussed here, thought folks may be interested in moon gazing too. Have done a sort on a full moon night: was really powerful... you've to go to bed directly after that and not engage in any arguments or debates. The moonlight has really strange effects, I must say. But didn't attempt after that one time. Anybody had any encounters with moon gazing? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2007 : 08:45:28 AM
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Hi Bewell,
quote:
Christi, If you say you've gone more than a month living on sunlight and water alone, I'll say to to you, "Now you know!" Best wishes in your research.
Actually I think most humans can go for 30 days living on water alone, so that wouldn't really be much groundbraking in terms of scientific advancement. I think most people start kicking the dust at around the 60 day mark, so I will be very interested to see what, if anything, happens after than.
Thanks for your best wishes, I think I'll need them.
Christi |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2007 : 09:43:54 AM
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Actually I think most humans can go for 30 days living on water alone, so that wouldn't really be much groundbraking in terms of scientific advancement.
Yes, it wouldn't be easy, but there's nothing special about that scientifically.
Nirodha said:
I'm not trying to achieve inedian though as quite frankly I don't believe it's possible. And, I never really believed that Hira was able to do it either - he's since been caught out eating solid food.
Same old same old. I've also heard that Therese Neumann, the 'Catholic Saint who never eats' visited by Paramhansa Yogananda and discussed in his Autobiography of a Yogi, used to eat at night! This bit of reality about Therese was brought to me years ago by my grandmother of all people, who knew it from the Catholic Hagiographical circuit. Some people who knew this unpleasant truth would avoid spreading it because they felt that Therese was an inspiration to people. I don't support any form of deception like that, even if for supposedly spiritual purposes. I believe much more in keeping people grounded in the truth. Long-term, it's a better foundation for everything, including Bhakti.
The human body can have some unusual attributes which Science does not understand -- yet. I've never seen any evidence of any of them break the laws of physics though.
People can simultaneously enjoy the treasures of Yoga and the richness and dignity of scientific understanding -- and adhesion to the truth.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jul 07 2007 2:48:35 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2007 : 09:57:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Lies for Bhakti anyone?
I can imagine well meaning people who mislead without thinking of it as untruth. She was living on sunshine and the love of God in her heart, the evening snack was incidental and irrelevant, and of course, unworthy of mention. something like that.
Sai Baba does slight of hand tricks with a message and lets his followers think it is miraculous.
In the mind of these devout deceivers, the effect justifies the means. There may be some self-delusion involved too. I can easily believe that prolonged fasting can lead to self-delusion.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2007 : 2:54:01 PM
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Bewell, I've no doubt such people have rationalizations for what they do. But if the presence of rationalization made things moral, we'd all be saints, and there would be no such thing as a scoundrel. 
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2007 : 3:25:27 PM
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| Damn, good point. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 06:07:37 AM
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Calm down guys.
Isn't this turning into a case of guilty until proven innocent? A lot of people who live primeraly on prana or divine light eat occasionally. Why shouldn't they? They are human just like everyone else. Of course there is a human tendancy to shout "cheat!" at the top of our voices, and then start hypothesizing about why people want to go around deceiving others so freely. But hang on a minute. There is science involved here. According to science, humans need a certain amount of calorific intake every day on average to keep them alive, and this varies according to their weight and level of physical activity. Now if someone was living on air and sunlight, and then once a month had a biscuit and a bowl of soup in the evening for pure enjoyment and the pleasure of it, that would not contravine the fact that something absolutely amazing was happening. I think a more rational aproach could fare better in the long run if we are really interested in this subject.
As I remember, Yogani has devoted one of the main lessons in AYP to this very subject, so it could merit some serious attention.
Oh Ye of little faith.
Christi |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 09:14:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
As I remember, Yogani has devoted one of the main lessons in AYP to this very subject, so it could merit some serious attention.
Hi Christi and All:
Yes, here it is: http://www.aypsite.org/167.html
Nothing more to add, except to say that the AYP forums are primarily for support in practices, not for discrediting teachers or practitioners of any persuasion. That belongs in the anti-cult and anti-charlatan forums, which are plentiful elsewhere on the internet. A preoccupation with it here can become a distraction from the main mission of the forums.
Let's take what is useful for our spiritual practice, wherever we may find it, and move on into the light of ecstatic bliss and outpouring divine love.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 11:49:12 AM
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Yogani said:
Nothing more to add, except to say that the AYP forums are primarily for support in practices, not for discrediting teachers or practitioners of any persuasion. That belongs in the anti-cult and anti-charlatan forums, which are plentiful elsewhere on the internet. A preoccupation with it here can become a distraction from the main mission of the forums.
Just to balance that nicely, let's all just keep in mind that a pre-occupation with magic and the paranormal isn't part of the mission of AYP forums either. If AYP forums isn't a place for disagreeing with paranormal claims, it should hardly be a place for promoting them.
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salvation
19 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 1:09:08 PM
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Hi to all
I think it is better to try sun gazing and see the results yourself.Most of the people here have doubts about HR Manek's ability but nobody here discussed about "Uma Shankar" of West Bengal,India.
Though I haven't started sungazing yet but definitely I plan to go for it very soon.
As far as I am pushing my limits already,I have reduced the solid food in my diets to a great extent.
I believe in the things when I see some logic.There is a saying "if the mind accepts,the body accepts". So I suggest rather than looking for criticism of this phenomenon , it is better to study the scientific aspects of it...
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 9:30:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
As I remember, Yogani has devoted one of the main lessons in AYP to this very subject, so it could merit some serious attention.
Yes, here it is: http://www.aypsite.org/167.html
Thanks, Yogani, Thanks, Christi, I wish I'd read Lesson 167 sooner. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 10:05:32 PM
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Bewell, something very special happens with prana for sure. The human nutritional needs can drop remarkably as part of the yogic process. Similarly, the need for oxygen intake can drop remarkably during samadhi. But neither the need for nutrition nor for oxygen drop magically to zero.
The truth doesn't divide into 'EITHER nothing is happening with prana OR These people are living indefinitely without eating' -- both of those are at the untruthful extremes -- the truth is something very interesting happens with prana (as mentioned above and in lesson 167) AND those people aren't living indefinitely without eating. So you can keep the information of lesson 167 and your original skepticism -- this way you are I believe most fully enriched by the available knowledge.
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 11:00:13 PM
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And for anyone who doesn't want to read the whole of 167 lesson, here's the crux of the matter, at the end of that:
quote:
We'd all love to live as the siddha-saints do, but have we first done all the yoga they did to get to the stage we would like to emulate? Is developing the ability to live on air and sunlight so important? Or is it just a by-product ability (a siddhi) of something much more important -- our enlightenment, which is the joining of inner silence and the ecstatic energies within us. How we replenish our prana is a fairly mundane subject compared to the divine union going on inside.
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Edited by - sadhak on Jul 05 2007 11:01:26 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 04:59:27 AM
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Hi Yogani
quote:
Hi Christi and All:
Yes, here it is: http://www.aypsite.org/167.html
Nothing more to add, except to say that the AYP forums are primarily for support in practices, not for discrediting teachers or practitioners of any persuasion. That belongs in the anti-cult and anti-charlatan forums, which are plentiful elsewhere on the internet. A preoccupation with it here can become a distraction from the main mission of the forums.
Let's take what is useful for our spiritual practice, wherever we may find it, and move on into the light of ecstatic bliss and outpouring divine love.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
Thanks for that reminder Yogani. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 05:03:19 AM
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Hi david
quote:
Just to balance that nicely, let's all just keep in mind that a pre-occupation with magic and the paranormal isn't part of the mission of AYP forums either. If AYP forums isn't a place for disagreeing with paranormal claims, it should hardly be a place for promoting them.
Just to balance that, what one person would call magic, or paranormal, another would not. I do things on a daily basis which many people would consider to be magic, but for me it is just part of my reality, and I consider it to be quite normal. Just because some people cannot see or feel what is happening, does not make it paranormal for those who can.
But actually, it is always magic.
Christi |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 09:48:48 AM
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From the dedication page of the Samyama book:
"Life is a Miracle!"
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 10:15:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
...So you can keep the information of lesson 167 and your original skepticism...
Well put, David. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 10:18:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
...what one person would call magic, or paranormal, another would not. I do things on a daily basis which many people would consider to be magic, but for me it is just part of my reality...
Me too, Christi. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 10:32:07 AM
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Yes, and if one really feels that 'life is a miracle', the notion that people such as these are living indefinitely without food will not have such appeal! And similarly the counter-point --- namely the truth that they are not living without food -- will not be unattractive or diminishing. It will be received blithely, and, on sophisticated examination of the evidence, probably agreed with (or, if disagreed with, blithely so).
People don't in fact feel that 'life is a miracle' though. People love to believe that they have special extra-ordinary powers, or that other people have extra-ordinary powers -- and to promote such beliefs. There are often very strong (but generally unconscious or unacknowledged) attention-seeking or self-promotional motivations involved. Under these circumstances, empires can be built on gullibility. Enter the world of priestcraft, which is to spirituality as prostitution is to love.
Of course, nothing is the whole story on what is the 'right path'. But strong devotion to the truth should I believe be part of any path -- especially in this age. Sometimes devotion to the truth seems severe. But it is severe in the same way that almost anything in the spiritual path is severe -- turning away from what is wrong is often diminishing, uncomfortable or even painful.
If you went back in a time machine, can you imagine in 1955 telling people that cigarettes are bad for you? You might annoy a lot of people, but you'd get through to a few, and you really should speak. If you were in a club, even a 'health-club', some of the club members might try to get the club owner to get you to stop talkin' like that. And maybe the health-club owner might swing down on their side a little. After all, cigarettes do you no harm, and everyone loves a good cigarette, right?
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jul 06 2007 3:09:02 PM |
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sun gazing
