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aditya
82 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 03 2006 : 11:26:34 AM
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What is the secret of siddhi? There must be a fine point that people miss and that is why siddhi seems so elusive. I know someone who has been practising Yoga and meditation for around 30 years. That person looks younger than his age, but has never got any siddhi. So what is that we miss?
If I do not sound stupid, here is an incident I would like to share: I met someone in India - somewhere in a Himalayan village (my first visit to meet that gentleman) - who achieved siddhi using Mantra and Tantra. He could see anyone on Earth, just by concentrating on him/her. He can hear someone talking (and will express it in a form that it is obvious to you too) in any place on earth. He can appear in your dreams, can give you directions to do thing, even without you realizing that it is he who made you do things. Is it that you can gain power only when you pratice tamasik things?
When I hear someone saying that one should reject power - the first thing that comes in my mind is - what to reject when I do not have it in first place? It is like saying - I do not want to be Bill Gates - I reject the proposal. 
Now without further ado, here is my question - if I want to get clairaudience and clairvoyance, please explain me in plain simple English, what do I do? I am 'Upvishya Nishad' at feet of wisdom.
In Pursuit,
A |
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aditya
82 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2006 : 12:56:37 PM
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Melissa,
I rejected that idea (magical route) long time back.
Now I am pursuing it from a view where there is no broken link and a path which anyone can pursue without ambiguity. It all started with a quest - a simple quest to quit smoking and then it just went on and on. Manytimes I feel that I am pulled at the right spot in the right time. For example - yesterday to get train in flooded subway of New York and then I was thinking - will I be able to catch my regular NJ Transit train? Lol - I was able to catch my regular train (it got late so...). Is this pure co-incidence? Am I just thinking too much? lol!
And then why is this knowledge hidden? Is it just by fluke that people attain it or that no one knows how it happens? My scientific mind refuses to accept it. I have done vigorous practices - I am convinced there is truth in these things. I have been able to find right people - for ex Swami Sivananda, Paramhans Yogananda, Swami J, Yogani, SriRam Sharma Acharya and so many others. I am sure if I pursue -knowledge will be divulged too.
I would like to go beyond this too. What is the best place to keep your consciousness at, when you offer prayer? Where to visualize HIS form? I have more question.However right now I am starting with basics.
I Hope you understand churning of my heart.
In Pursuit,
A |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2006 : 1:42:06 PM
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Hi,
The siddhis are a natural development that all are given as a byproduct of the purification process.Each one of us will be blessed with different siddhis but I do believe it is possible to steer oneself towards a particular one.This is regarded as an abuse of the gifts and has been a downfall of many gurus. The siddhis are not actively sought as they are considered a distraction from the path.I consider them like walking to the garden gate.If you walk directly to the gate without stopping to smell the flowers(siddhis), then you will get there quicker although you will still smell the flowers as you pass by. If you stop to smell the flowers it will take you longer to reach the gate(enlightnement).BTW is not the act of looking younger a blessing? I also do not want to be Bill gates!
As for looking for clairvoyance etc you are stepping into the realms of working with spirits which the yogis do not recommend as it is dangerous working with spirits as they drain your life force.I have a frined in Santa Monica who has many siddhis since birth and worked with spirits for many years . The consequence was a heart attack in his early twenties.When he was told it was caused by working with spirits they confirmed this although it was not a deliberate action. I am sure many will dismiss this as dribble but I can tell you that my friend is a genuine and honest guy who I regard as having high integrity.If you wish to develop siddhis I am sure there are more efficient ways than the yogic way such as working in a spiritualist church etc.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2006 : 9:18:55 PM
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I think one of the problems with trying to develop siddhis without just letting them happen as a byproduct of balanced development, is that you tend to remove yourself from the normal world.
Since siddhis are not a normal thing for normal people, the more you focus your mind on things like that the more you will have problems dealing with the everyday world. You will start to see and hear things other people don't see and hear, and people will start to notice things about you that makes them think you are "weird" or "crazy". Some of it will just be their intuition. Most people are not impressed or amazed with siddhis. Rather, they refuse to believe them and it alienates them from you. It's no fun at all, and it puts you in a place of not understanding why they are reacting that way.
So that's why we need to let them pass by as scenery, and concentrate on the balanced practice of meditation. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2006 : 11:58:24 PM
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The big truths, boiled down, all sound like banal platitudes. The biggest truths are worst of all. With that in mind, here goes. There's a lot in here even though it sounds like a freaking greeting card:
The greatest siddhi is peace and happiness.
The reason it's the greatest is that once you have it, you require no other siddhi (you require nothing, period). And practices such as AYP, done diligently over long term, GUARANTEE this greatest of siddhi as a result.
Enjoy. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jun 04 2006 12:01:10 AM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 02:11:25 AM
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I second what Jim says. When you're deep in meditation and you feel the energy flowing through you and your heart is breaking with love and acceptance of all that is, the last thing you'll be thinking about are siddhis.
"Seek ye first the kingdom of God, then everything else will be added unto you." Something like that. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 02:17:09 AM
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maybe we should talk about the little siddhis that we do experience. They happen to me all the time but i call them "synchronicities". One that has been recurring is that i may be in a crowd of people and someones face appears to resemble someone that I know. Then within a short time that person contacts me or shows up.
Another one recently happened in the supermarket. I was randomly shopping and not paying attention to the cost but when i got to the checkout i realized that i needed to keep it as close to $100 as possible. when the checker rang it up it came to a bit over and i said "ouch". she looked again and said that my safeway club card had not gone through and to type my number again. i did and the charge came to exactly $100.89!
OK, so i was telling this story to an online friend and was listening to a Grateful Dead streaming online radio station and quoted one of their songs. I typed "some folks trust to reason, others trust in might, I don't trust in nothing but I know it come out right". as soon as i typed those lyrics the station started playing that song.
this sort of stuff happens to me all the time. I don't get all serious about it but do take notice that there is more than meets the eye and i smile and enjoy the humor of it. |
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aditya
82 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 08:42:53 AM
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Hi Victor,
You got it right. These things happen with me too. Do you get distracted by this? I guess - no! Nor do I. Now, I do not even realize that these 'miracles' are happening. Earlier I used to be so curious and happy to discover a parking lot in a packed mall, now I take it easy. (even if I do not get one - I know - this is not for me). See - curiousity is satisfied.
The moment you talk about siddhi - people say - NO NO - Don't! Off! It is like saying - do not use cellphone - you will miss your flight. Come on - how many people really miss flight due to cell phone? Maybe few. Now - count how many everyday catch a delayed flight without a boring wait in lobby? See my point?
I understand, there are times when you need to put it on vibration or switch it off. Maybe you need it for only one call in 24 hours, but there is a use, it is always good to have a cell phone handy. Why shun the concept of Siddhi? Why not define a path towards it too? Why not enjoy the whole journey with active control on mind? (people who get off wrong exit do not deserve to complete journey anyway).  |
Edited by - aditya on Jun 04 2006 09:46:45 AM |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 12:19:21 PM
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very interesting discussion. Thanks to Melissa for pointing out regarding astral projection, magical route, mental wandering etc... Even though it might be dangerous to practice these, they will be something very interesting to read.
The coincidences happen to me too. I was chatting with my gf and i got a phone call, so i told her "go and apply oil to ur moms legs i will come in 5 mins". At the exact same time her mother asked her "come for 5 mins and apply oil to my legs". Whenever I get a phone call, I just say "gimme a minute", thats the first time I jokingly said go and apply oil and her mother also happened to say the same thing. There are other coincidences that happen too.
Most of these things are not in my hand and they just happen.
-Near |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 12:34:45 PM
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Aditya wrote:
"Why shun the concept of Siddhi? Why not define a path towards it too? Why not enjoy the whole journey with active control on mind?"
It's not the concept that should be shunned. and yes, siddhis are useful tools. Those you will be given when you are ready. I wouldn't try to tell you not to do something you really want to do. just that siddhis are an illusory part of maya's total illusion, and they will cause pain if you pursue them just like pursuing other parts of the illusion. Having them as a goal is much worse than other illusory goals however because they are not a part of the belief systems of most people, and unity with the human race is one of the most important goals we are after.
It's like telling a kid not to play in the explosives shed until he learns how to use them; he says there is so much power and usefullness in there; i'll just play with a couple sticks of dynamite!
If you're determined, I would suggest setting aside a year maybe to study siddhis and see where it takes you, with the contract with yourself that if you aren't happier at the end of that time you'll quit. It's an addictive path, and can be full of fear and insanity.
but having said that, those coincidences happen to me all the time too. the whole world around you tells you things if you listen without your ego. Really want to go to a store, but can't find a place to park? Don't go today. Really want to tell someone something but can't get ahold of them? Don't tell them today, etc. interesting how you'll find out later why that was the right path to follow. You can see signals telling you something in the flight of birds, the wind, the way people say something, everywhere. . .watch what you are thinking in relation to what is happening around you; the world is talking to you. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 12:03:53 AM
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If it seems like my posting above was glossing over the issue, being moralistic, etc, then I gave the wrong impression. It was literally true.
I may be able to walk on water right now. I may be reading people's minds. I may have all sorts of stuff going on. But I have no idea. I wouldn't notice. Whatever yoga's given me in the way of "powers" would be so unbelievably uninteresting compared to the increasing liberation from the feelings of isolation, emptiness, meaninglessness, drabness, and slogging, drudging misery I'd previously felt for nearly all my life- with the exception of a few peak moments when the truth of things peaked through (hee....I like the redefinition of "peak"). We don't realize the extent of our misery and imprisonment until we step outside it.
This is so humongously amazing and relieving to me that the thought of being able to, like, turn jellybeans into gold pieces wouldn't occur to me in a million years. It would be like a feature on a VCR remote control I never knew about. Damn, I coulda been recording on timer ALL THIS TIME!
Anyone who experiences the dense all-pervasive love in which we all unknowingly bathe 24/7 could not possibly spend a millisecond contemplating cheap magic tricks.
There's nothing wrong or taboo about pursuing siddhis. It just has nothing to do with surrendering to God (i.e. yoga). It's a distraction from that (every attempt to grab the fruits of one's actions moves one further and further away from realization). Anyone the least bit surrendered, who has experienced the miracle of peace, can only giggle at the thought of lesser siddhis (all siddhis besides peace are lesser siddhis). The world is heart breakingly beautiful and I have a sacred place in this collaborative work of art....and I'm going to spend twenty years learning to live on sunlight? HUH??? |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jun 07 2006 12:10:10 AM |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 02:26:18 AM
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Hi aditya,
You may enjoy this thread: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=367
You will be disappointed if you want some advices on how you can get clairaudience and clairvoyance. Quite the opposite, you will find plenty of evidences against the idea that siddhis can be demonstrated at will by anyone who want to demonstrate. (In my mind, I go further. But I would stop here.)
No more arguments here. I would just add that I am willing to accept the idea of siddhis if there are enough concrete, rigorous evidences.
If you want to amuse people, the surest way is to learn some simple magic. In fact, many spiritual leaders (including many Indian "sages")demonstrate "siddhis" by some magical tricks. The difference of such "guru" and magicians is just that the latter tell you that it's just a trick!
Alvin
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Edited by - Alvin Chan on Jun 07 2006 06:31:52 AM |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 03:51:41 AM
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I don't even have 24/7 ecstatic bliss yet, but I happily take what I've gotten from AYP already over siddhis any day...
That being said, I think you're more likely to attain siddhis if you dedicate their use (via prayer) to the benefit and enlightenment of all beings. And if the only siddhi you receive is a killer smile, the world will be a better place for it. And at that point you won't give a crap about siddhis anyways... |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 11:11:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmic_troll
I think you're more likely to attain siddhis if you dedicate their use (via prayer) to the benefit and enlightenment of all beings.
Do you think that's true? I'd like it to be true, but there seem to be plenty of cases where siddhis were meted out to reckless gurus or plain folk who used them for personal gain. I wonder if they're sometimes given to less-than-stellar characters who, by the very choice in how they handle them, are expanded toward enlightenment or degraded in ego fulfilllment. As always, it's a matter of free will, and the latent powers in siddhis may go beyond the obvious feats of display, whether one takes them on the high or low road.
We all like to think we'd take the high road should powers be given us, but who knows? Who could resist the harmless act of showing off a siddhi or 2 to someone who would appreciate the display, and the temptation to repeat the act would be overwhelming. I hope I'm never put to the test! Besides finding siddhis relatively uninteresting, I'm not so sure I'd handle them with integrity. And then what? What happens internally with the energy when the powers are abused? Wouldn't one's inner silence be corrupted? |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 1:55:55 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by cosmic_troll
I don't even have 24/7 ecstatic bliss yet
Hello Cosmic,
welcome to the club... I only know a few 7x24x365'ers in bliss. 'I like your positive attitude e.g. 'yet'. This bliss comes as a blessing and of HIS Grace. there are a few pit stops along the way to get one prepared for this... I am in hopes you are inches away.
In this life we earn the fruits of our actions... if its bliss, then we earn it, if its siddhi's we earn it. Once earned its up to us to use it as we see fit. The closer to 7x24 the more we use these things for the common good of all. Why is that? Because, in the final analysis 'ALL' is HIM/HER and we serve accordingly. This comes with the territory.
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 3:43:12 PM
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quote:
I only know a few 7x24x365'ers in bliss
Frank, it's all relative. It's not on/off, there's a smooth progression.
If you diligently do AYP for a while, you're likely to feel (or be a few mantra iterations from feeling) at least traces of whatever level of bliss you're getting in meditation. There's something there that wasn't (apparently) there before, and it feels peaceful.
Next is to experience a warm glow pretty much all the time, which expands sometimes into full-out ecstacy, and recedes sometimes into the old feelings of drudgy emptiness (or anger or depression...however one has, over one's lifetime, become accustomed and conditioned to feeling the pain of existence). But the drudgy emptiness seems less heavy, more easily escaped, more unreal and less of a prison.
From there, you gradually grow (without effort - it just happens) more of the former and less of the latter. In the end, I'm of the opinion that a human being, being born human and therefore inherently suceptible to all that being human entails, never reaches a point of complete, unshakable equanimity, love and peace. It just gets mostly that way. Or nearly entirely that way. And all those errant gurus (the ones who started off genuine and got corrupted, not the ones who were complete frauds to begin with) were victimized by little tendrils of human weakness sneaking through the bliss and gaining a foothold. So the lesson to be learned is that you're never beyond human weakness (i.e. no human being is "perfectly" anything). It's just about more and more light (and therefore inherently less darkness, which is dissipated by light). So we aim for maybe 23.9/6.9/364.9.
As you grow that light, that bliss, you have less and less need of (and interest in) cool tricks and heightened self image. So, as Yogani has said many times about siddhis, as you reach the point where you can have it, you won't want it. You just want to open more and more, love more and more, help more and more, let go more and more. It's the greatest thing a human can experience, and literally everything else pales. Sometimes I wonder whether I've grown "features" of which I'm unaware. And sometimes I think I should learn what all the buttons on my VCR remote control do. I never get around to either, 'cuz I've got more important matters deserving my attention, and I feel good and am able to do the things I need to do much as my VCR is working ok and records/plays everything I need it to just fine.
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jun 07 2006 5:15:15 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 4:14:28 PM
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P.S. Aditya, would you REALLY want to be Bill Gates? Would you really want the sex life of Hugh Hefner or the business power of Donald Trump? Do these people seem in any way fulfilled or happy to you? They strike me as wholly miserable. Can you see beyond the veneer?
I'd suggest you think through this issue. The desire to emulate these sorts of people doesn't come from within. It comes from the aspirations that society hypnotizes us into. If I only had a sexy blonde girlfriend, a Camaro, and white sparkly teeth, I'd lose that empty feeling I've always carried around with me...
Gurdjieff wrote a book (no, actually, he wrote a title...the book itself is just an excuse for the title): "Life Is Real Only Then, When I Am...." We are all of us dumb horses, chasing carrots endlessly. When we snatch a carrot, we chase the next carrot. Siddhi, carrot, money, camaro, blonde.....eventually the wise choose to opt out. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jun 07 2006 5:12:14 PM |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 5:50:43 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
quote:
I only know a few 7x24x365'ers in bliss
It's not on/off, there's a smooth progression.
If you diligently do AYP for a while, you're likely to feel (or be a few mantra iterations from feeling) at least traces of whatever level of bliss you're getting in meditation. There's something there that wasn't (apparently) there before, and it feels peaceful.
Hello Jim, (et.al)
Thanks you for the post and your perspective on this... while I concur with some of your observations (and perhaps your experience), this has not been my observation of people practicing similar meditation techniques over the years. So, before I go forward, let me also say , I agree and do not think its on-off ( nor did I hope to imply that from my last post).
I have seen and experienced differences in ones growth - some logarithmic ( fast growth), some cyclical ( ups and downs), some steady as you go, and even some flat line. I would like your opinion on this if you choose to poke around on this subject.
Let me submit one more idea/humble opinion and observations/teaching; I know you know this, but humor me for a min or two to make my point:
People are different in consciousness, body type ( Pitta, kapha, vata), intent, focus, and last but not least, and I cannot prove, but in 'baggage' they come with. Some are blessed from the last life ( if you consider/buy-in to this concept) and some are not. Some get a diksha guru and are off to the races, others do not. Is it a roll of the dice? from my studies, it suggests not. We earn what we get.
If your growth has been smooth, then I applaud your growth and hope you can help others. But in my humble observations on this earth its not the 'Blue Book' standard of a beings unfoldment. We can also poke around on the following which has great import to ones progress, that is:
Bhuki kami - the desire for sense enjoyment and material gain ( not a bad thing, and can even be done by specific vedic injunctions)
Mukti kami - or the desire to merge with Brahman/Moksha ( I raise my hand here)
Siddhi kami - the desire for powers ( this whole conversation string we're in) AND how all these 3 tie to:
Sacita, Prarabhdha, and Kriyamana karma, or all the actions of past, present and yet to come.
It's my teaching that when all combined (the 6 components from above), ones progress is fast, med, slow, bumpy, etc.
Let me assert, I LOVE smooth! ,I'll take smooth each time if given the opportunity, yet at times this is not the case to ones march to Moksha.
Perhaps I answered how a watch is built vs. what time it is now (((  )))…. oooops!
Hope to hear your comments.
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 6:26:27 PM
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| Desires are desires, whether for siddhis, blondes, Camaros, Pintos, God, achievements, bon bons, and so on. All roads lead inward - just pick one and see where you end up. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 7:59:04 PM
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quote:
I have seen and experienced differences in ones growth - some logarithmic ( fast growth), some cyclical ( ups and downs), some steady as you go, and even some flat line. I would like your opinion on this if you choose to poke around on this subject.
no argument from me. I'm talking about a progression. The speed and shape of the progression will surely differ among different people. And I don't think it matters, because we're all going to experience all of this in time. Those driven (via bhakti, not intellect) to experience it ASAP will, inherently, have the bhakti to move faster. It's a nice tidy equation.
quote:
People are different in consciousness, body type ( Pitta, kapha, vata), intent, focus, and last but not least, and I cannot prove, but in 'baggage' they come with. Some are blessed from the last life ( if you consider/buy-in to this concept) and some are not. Some get a diksha guru and are off to the races, others do not.
yup, I'm with you still
quote:
Is it a roll of the dice? from my studies, it suggests not. We earn what we get.
That hints at a western moralistic religious view (I don't say that pejoratively or condescendingly). You are certainly welcome to the interpretation, but it's not my intuition, nor is it the teachings of the rishis (though the vedas, et al, are so extensive that one can find a quote here or there to prove any point). We all brim with karma (the residue of the futile grasping/recoiling we all do every second). My believe is that it's not demerits handed out by a disapproving God. It's just mud on our windshields.
In any case, it doesn't matter. We've got a big big problem: we're miserable and we're suffering and some of us have the dim perception that we are actually creating our own misery and suffering and missing something divine that seems to lurk around somewhere. We have a solution: AYP (or other such practices). For my part, I prefer not to look under the hood, but to invest all energy into fixing the screaming, gnawing problem rather than understanding its mechanics. See the Buddha's parable of the dying man and the arrow in my posting here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....&whichpage=2
Re: the other stuff, it seems erudite (insofar as I'm able to gauge), but it doesn't really speak to me, and I don't have much to comment on it. I don't mean that as a put down at ALL....different strokes for different folks! Look, I'm doing my thing, and it works for me. But we all have to find our respective ways.
Meg, yes, the desire for God is indeed just another desire that must eventually be cast upon the yogic flame. But it will likely spur you to clear more mud from your windows than will a desire for bon bons or Camaros. If you can just be, without processing your existence with your mental photoshop, there's no need for anything. All your wishes are already true. Per Aditya's naive wish to be Bill Gates, the problem's all in the wishing. Gates is miserable. Camaro owners are miserable. Bon bon eaters are miserable. The problem is not the things we lack, because when we get those things, the problem remains! The problem's not the lack, it's the failure to recognize that we lack nothing.
My wish? I wish to bathe in an endless sea of love, and be more than the sum of my unquenchable desires and aversions and my unremitting mind. Poof.
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jun 07 2006 8:12:28 PM |
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lucidinterval1
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 9:38:34 PM
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Hello All,
Siddhi's to me must be of importance. Jesus displayed the use of them as did Lahiri Mahasaya with bi-location and such. Yogani's book "The Secrets of Wilder" also takes advantage of siddhi's. Some of them displayed without real intent and others with intent. The real point is that we shouldn't be attached to them or have them control our desires. I agree with Frank. They will come by Grace if we have prepared ourselves. God wouldn't throw "pearls before swine".
With Peace,
Paul |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 10:06:54 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
[quote]That hints at a western moralistic religious view (I don't say that pejoratively or condescendingly).
Jim, First, thx for taking the time to write this and collect the ideas succinctly. The comment on you get what you earn is another way of saying action-reaction, or karmic results. Now, that said, our free will ( again a gift) can make a difference for ones course of action. The karmic results sets the stage you/we work in to exercise our free will. Most but not all folks think 'oh , karma, you are talking of the negative results of an action'. Karma delivers both - it's a Equal Employment Opportunity Dispatcher - good /bad/middling , doesn't matter.
Here's my understanding - and I yield to rishi Vasistha for his words not mine: [ from the Vasistha Yoga, a brilliant work from one of the most respected brahmarishi's this planet has been able to house.]
'Fate is none other then self-effort of a past incarnation. the latter [ or past incarnation ]counteracts the former [ this birth]. There is constant conflict between these two in this incarnation... there is no power greater than right action in the present. Hence, one should take recourse to self-effort, grinding one's teeth, and one should overcome evil by good and fate by present effort'
Jim, this tells me we can overcome the influence of past actions if we have the resolve, yet we are working within the world that we crafted based upon past selections. For me, and my orientation, this is not a "western moralistic religious view" as perhaps suggested.
Bottom line to this overall conversation and my principles that I firmly believe:
- In the long run, no one will be left behind, we are all destined to Moksha.
- in the short term, ones' experiences can be fast, slow, middling, flat line; this may look like a Company on the New York stock exchange. It ( ones experiences ) looks like a company's stock price over 1/4 or 1/2 of the year... ups, downs, sideway movement, but in general, always progressing up and to the right ( if you are a blue chip!).
- Sometimes a smooth ride is desirable, but does not turn out that way, based upon Vashistha's information. Is this just words? Not for me. I have seen this in others, myself, etc. What I cannot 'see' is the continuity of smoothness over several lives...perhaps one day. This may be the case.
Thanks for letting me explain my perspective on this..I am eager to gain new info - I am a student of life, willing to incorporate new knowledge and always willing listen to others POV.
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
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Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on Jun 07 2006 10:18:43 PM |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2006 : 11:07:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
P.S. Aditya, would you REALLY want to be Bill Gates? Would you really want the sex life of Hugh Hefner or the business power of Donald Trump? Do these people seem in any way fulfilled or happy to you? They strike me as wholly miserable.
I understand what you want to say, Jim. But you sound too quick and subjective in your judgement, especially the term "wholly miserable" you put on Bill Gates. I think only he himself could know whether he is miserable or not. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2006 : 12:23:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
[quote]Meg, yes, the desire for God is indeed just another desire that must eventually be cast upon the yogic flame. But it will likely spur you to clear more mud from your windows than will a desire for bon bons or Camaros.........
I'm not so sure. I've been thinking about this for a while - the possibliity that we can take any one of our desires and follow it through to its completion, and it will lead to us inward to the Self (or the Source, or God, or however we think of THAT). It can't be casual; there has to be commitment toward the goal of realizing the fulfillment of that particular desire. So if you have a burning desire to own a Camaro, and the desire doesn't wane as the years tick by, then you would do well to commit yourself to following that desire to its bitter end. Buy the damn thing, drive it for all it's worth, bask in the glow of being a Camaro owner, and, eventually, come to the end of the road, as it were, where desire meets disappointment. This is the place you want to end up. How many thousands of books have been written on this subject? The place of emptiness and void, enlightenment and suicide. I'm not ready to write my own book quite yet, as I don't profess to have anything of major value to say on the subject. Except maybe this:
Desire is too often overlooked as a tremendously powerful tool to bring us 'home' to ourselves. And the desire for God is so often twisted and polluted by ignorance that it might just as well be a desire for a Camaro. (How many people have pursued a burning desire for God and ended up in some weird cult? They shoulda bought the Camaro). I'm not ready to call one desire holy and another profane, as it's all drawn from the same well. If someone has an unquenchable desire to attain siddhis, go for it! See where it takes you. |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2006 : 04:06:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by meg
(How many people have pursued a burning desire for God and ended up in some weird cult? They shoulda bought the Camaro). I'm not ready to call one desire holy and another profane, as it's all drawn from the same well. If someone has an unquenchable desire to attain siddhis, go for it! See where it takes you.
Hi meg !
Yes,I do have a burning desire for God, for truth,
and yes, I did end up in a weird cult (!) ...
but I also came out of it because of my desire for God and truth,
and that desire leads me onward on my path.
Concerning siddhis: did Jesus show his miracles because he wanted
to show-off his powers ? Probably not. I believe he showed them
to awaken the people, make them realise there is more that eyes
can see. Did this help the people ? Did it help even those whom
he healed ?
Would it help todays society if a miracle performing Jesus came up ?
If it can help us (the world) to realise that there is more than
a materialistic worldview, then it might be worth to consider
learning some siddhis (for the sake of showing the world).
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