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jcs
USA
2 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 10 2012 : 10:11:14 AM
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As you can see this is my first post. I found ayp a week or so ago after seeing an advertisement for Gurunath Siddhanath in a local paper which recalled old feelings of spiritual desire that I’ve had on and off for many years. I didn’t know the term until reading the lessons and forums but I feel like this was a jolt of bhakti.
A little history: I became aware of SRF by reading Autobiography of a Yogi in my teens about fifteen years ago and have since that point gone through phases of extreme and intense interest and desire to work on my own awakening. I borrowed SRF lessons and attempted to follow their meditation instructions (not their Kriya Yoga however which I never had access to) with very poor success. In each period of seeking (every 4 years or so) I would start and for a week or so my practice would be somewhat regular. Eventually though my attention would wane without any notion that something in me had begun to change. Intellectually I had this interest but I guess I just wasn't ready or disciplined enough to make anything happen.
While my actions haven't played out differently yet (I'm at the end of week 1 after all, let's see what happens over the next couple years) I know there are many things are different about my relationship between the ayp DM instruction versus other meditation techniques I had read about that already make it much more pleasurable and exciting. The first is that losing the mantra is part of the process. Before when my mind wandered I felt I was screwing up. This led to frustration. Now I realize this is part of the mechanical process involved and I'm simply working out this mind muscle. The second is that more isn't better and I am not giving anything up by not meditating ten hours a day. Balancing external and internal life is challenging enough but throwing a value judgement on top of it makes it that much harder when you don’t necessarily live up to your own expectations
My Practice: I have only started DM, no SBP or any other activities. I practice for 18 to 20 minutes in the evening session and have been less regular (missing or shortening) with my morning session. One thing to note is that in the first couple days I think I was accidentally switching to a breath meditation as I was aligning I AM with the in-out breath and I think I accidentally let my attention land on the breath and not the mantra. I’ve recently become aware of this and have attempted to stop it but I know that I’m not doing it perfectly
I have come so much further with DM already than I ever had with meditation ever before but this leads me to many many questions about what I’m experiencing. so here they are
1) In DM is ecstasy ‘scenery’? I feel like I’m supposed to be cultivating inner silence but for the last three evening sessions I had periods where every nerve on my body felt alive. It felt like energy and during the second time it also have a sexual coloring (‘felt’ something in the perineum) that I didn’t quite notice the first or third time. I read the lesson regarding awakening the 3rd eye and so I understand that these feelings often appear sexual in the beginning so at least that makes sense however I’m not even sure what I felt was what is described as ecstasy. The best correlation I could make between it and other things I’ve experienced or felt is a cross between orgasm (not as intense as though), goosebumps, and the feeling you get during the fight or flight response (adrenaline release maybe). I would like to think this feeling I got was what everyone else here gets but I’m not convinced. Anyhow back to the question, in DM should I let this pass or try to extend, prolong, enjoy this. I feel like this is what SBP is meant to generate and my mind is certainly not silent when this is going on. Oh and the energy lasts for about 5 to 15 seconds in my estimation.
2) Is it normal in the beginning feel like you are focussing on both the mantra and your conversation in your head about the mantra? When I am saying/hearing I AM in DM i am repeating the mantra but at the same time I have a running internal conversation about how I am repeating the mantra. I feel like my attention is split or worse that it's on the conversation even though the mantra is there. I don’t believe I have ever experienced silence but I will continue to to follow the instruction with the goal/hope that this does develop in time
3) during the energy I’ve experienced in DM it has begun with the automatic impulse to draw my eyes up and in (to where I’ve always thought the third eye is meant to be). It feels automatic. Is this automatic yoga? If so should I try to stop it since I’m probably skipping ahead as I feel the inner silence part is just completely not there. As a side note the practice of looking at the third eye is not totally new to me, in my earlier run-ins with meditation I long forced myself to focus in this spot so from a muscle memory standpoint I’ve done this before and the ‘automatic-ness’ of it may be my own subconscious notion of ‘this is what I’ve been trained to do’ and not my body spontaneously training me in awesome yoga practices. To be clear the previous training with this eye position never ever had any bodily sensation, that is all new as of this week.
That’s it for questions for now. I apologize if this should go in a different forum. I appreciate any feedback, comments, instruction, or just welcome anyone can give.
Josh |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Aug 10 2012 : 6:59:17 PM
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welcome Josh,
I have also seen a bit of overlap between DM and the energy practices, and that's to be expected. When doing DM we follow the instructions, and leave the enjoying of the scenery and effects for daily life. Creating a habit for returning to the instructions works to our benefit over chasing transient sensations. It can be scenery, effects of purifying nerves, or a milestone. You'd be able to tell them apart better over time, but the distinction wouldn't really change your approach other than in self pacing.
I think some sort of mind split or trance is normal during DM, and when you notice that happening, take it as a cue to return to the mantra. No need to manage or oversee the process of meditation since doing so only stalls it.
Sambhavi mudra can be added after you add spinal breathing, and even with automatic tendencies, if we keep them routine then it might be easier to unravel causes and effects further down the line and prevent overdoing. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Aug 10 2012 : 11:07:48 PM
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Hi jcs,
as long as you continue the practice correctly, (not) doing something with the rest will not make any real difference. In the beginning you will want to know all the details, later on only sometimes this or that may be of interest. And even later on only the stable longterm outcome counts and everything is automatically just optimized for that.
1) Whatever you have been witness to is scenery. Yes, everything is scenery. Nothing is not scenery. What you have experienced is common, so all is ok =)
2) It is normal. First your center will be the thoughts and you will start from there, operating from there which will always appear strange in some way. Later on your center will be the witness and the thoughts even though they may be totally paradox in themselves won't confuse you anymore and the practice will be very easy. Till then: as long as "favoring repeating the mantra" happens the practice is correct. Whenever you are off come back to the mantra again and again.
3) If there is no problem, let happen whatever happens and just come back to the mantra. If things get uncomfortable, self-pace as needed.
Sounds all fine so far, the only important thing is: practicing daily. The rest is "as you wish" :) The results will come surely sooner or later, fluctuating and giving glimpses along the weeks and months. Welcome and happy progress =) |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2012 : 5:48:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jcs
One thing to note is that in the first couple days I think I was accidentally switching to a breath meditation as I was aligning I AM with the in-out breath and I think I accidentally let my attention land on the breath and not the mantra. I’ve recently become aware of this and have attempted to stop it but I know that I’m not doing it perfectly
Just to further clarify on the finer points of meditation, and re: the mantra aligning with breathing...it's important to note that you shouldn't deliberately try to dislodge, separate, or de-rhythmitize the mantra from breathing if the mantra is naturally being repeated in conjuction with in/out breaths. Nor do you deliberately try to align the mantra with the breath, but you shouldn't exert any regulatory effort to de-synchronize the two. (This helped me tremendously early on).
Very subtle point, but important. The more finesse, ease, and effortlessness in following the mantra into stillness, the better. Therefore, do not regulate. Favor, follow, refine.
Godspeed.  |
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jcs
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2012 : 6:49:32 PM
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First I want to thank all three of you for taking the time to repsond. Community is a such a big benefit to motivation even if it is just affirmation of the lessons themselves.
AumNaturel Thank you. It sounds like your advice will be echoed by almost everyone that I need to just get back to the mantra. I am trying to remember the word 'favor' as I have a tendency to 'demand' the mantra even if intellectually I know that is not the instruction. I am sticking to DM only for at least a few months as I want to ensure a good habit/practice before I add anything else. So in the meantime I won't specifically stop Sambhavi mudra forcefully but just remember when it happens that its the mantra I want to go back to and let that Sambhavi mudra practice develop at some point in the future after I've moved on to SBP and given myself plenty of time to stabilize on that.
Holy, thank you for your detailed responses. I will continue to try to reinforce my focus on the mantra favoring and take your words of wisdom on keeping the schedule. I have been able to keep the evenings very regular. mornings are more difficult but if I choose to not do full DM in the morning due to obligations I have at least been successful in doing 5 or 10 minutes or getting in 20 minutes once I'm at work in my office. Not the best environment but its probably favorable to no DM. I wrote 'choose to not' instead of 'can't' above because I know that doing DM or not is always a matter of priorities and there is nothing in my life that can actually prevent me from doing so except myself.
Bhodi Tree, I appreciate the clarification. My big worry is that when I synchronize which happens to be my tendency without any conscious effort I regularly find myself with my attention on the breath and not the mantra. When I realize this I put my attention back on the mantra but don't even get partway through the "I" before its back on the breath again. Should I continue to allow the synchronization even if I'm incapable of placing my attention where it should be? I hope that as I develop things will change and my attention can go where I want regardless of what the breath is doing but it doesn't seem that this is possible. As a side note the way that i have avoided apparent synchronization is to speed up the mantra. its probably still synchronizing in some way but by being twice or three times as fast as the breath its easier for my to have my attention where I want it. I realize any kind of intention other than favoring the mantra isn't ideal. Maybe I should just literally let what happens happen and just live with the fact that my favoring of the mantra only lasts for seconds for now and hope that it gets better later.
Thanks again everyone. You have all been very helpful. I hope someday I can provide guidance to newcomers as well as you have today. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2012 : 9:14:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jcs
As a side note the way that i have avoided apparent synchronization is to speed up the mantra. its probably still synchronizing in some way but by being twice or three times as fast as the breath its easier for my to have my attention where I want it.
Ah, speeding up the mantra to avoid synchronization with breathing is definitely TOO MUCH regulation (I'm pretty sure I did that once too  ). That extra effort falls outside the parameters of "easily favoring", because "easily favoring" allows the mantra to intermingle with breathing, thoughts, hopes, dreams, nightmares, flashbacks and any imaginable phenomenon (scenery)--or nothing at all.
quote:
Originally posted by jcs
I realize any kind of intention other than favoring the mantra isn't ideal. Maybe I should just literally let what happens happen and just live with the fact that my favoring of the mantra only lasts for seconds for now and hope that it gets better later.
Ah, again, the confusion lies in the dynamics. I will try to use language precisely to illuminate the darkness.
Favoring the mantra is NOT repeating the mantra. Favoring is coming back to the process of repetition, but the favoring is not the repeating itself. You see? Contemplate the difference, and then you'll be illuminated. It's subtle, but profound.
The success of the meditation is NOT dependent AT ALL on how many times you repeat the mantra, or how long you can stay on the mantra. You may get lost for the majority of the session in thought-streams (or blacking out), because that's what stillness/awareness needs for you to experience for purification purposes. So, it's key not to judge your success based on how long you can stay on the mantra (which is not the goal).
The magic is not in the mantra per se, but in the refinement of the mantra. It's this process which is magical and performs the deep housecleaning that allows inner silence to take residence with increasing and sustained momentum. Such a delicate process with no force necessary. The mantra (I AM) is chosen by Yogani because it has wonderful vibratory qualities that make broad strokes in the nervous system, but even Yogani says that any object (mental or otherwise) can take you deep into stillness if meditated upon long enough. Meditation leads to absorption (samadhi). So delicate is the process that it cannot be forced, nor can samadhi be captured as a mental object.
It really sounds like you are on the right track, and the style of active surrender gets more and more familiar as you continue to dive into stillness.
Glad you are here. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2012 : 06:04:09 AM
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+1  Bhodis explanation is perfect. |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2012 : 3:44:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
quote:
Originally posted by jcs
As a side note the way that i have avoided apparent synchronization is to speed up the mantra. its probably still synchronizing in some way but by being twice or three times as fast as the breath its easier for my to have my attention where I want it.
Ah, speeding up the mantra to avoid synchronization with breathing is definitely TOO MUCH regulation (I'm pretty sure I did that once too ). That extra effort falls outside the parameters of "easily favoring", because "easily favoring" allows the mantra to intermingle with breathing, thoughts, hopes, dreams, nightmares, flashbacks and any imaginable phenomenon (scenery)--or nothing at all.
quote:
Originally posted by jcs
I realize any kind of intention other than favoring the mantra isn't ideal. Maybe I should just literally let what happens happen and just live with the fact that my favoring of the mantra only lasts for seconds for now and hope that it gets better later.
Ah, again, the confusion lies in the dynamics. I will try to use language precisely to illuminate the darkness.
Favoring the mantra is NOT repeating the mantra. Favoring is coming back to the process of repetition.
The magic is not in the mantra per se, but in the refinement of the mantra. It's this process which is magical and performs the deep housecleaning that allows inner silence to take residence with increasing and sustained momentum.
Glad you are here.
Beautifully explained.
Yes, we are NOT the sensory object, no matter how refined. When
the sensory object (the mantra) becomes PERFECTLY refined, then
we see that we are not the mantra, nor the person favoring the
mantra.
We are the Awareness independent of both mantra and person.
A beautiful practice like DM reminds Awareness "I am not that"
as the mantra refines. It starts at the physical, goes to the
mental/emotional (order dependent on the person), and then to
more subtle layers.
I am that I am becomes the realization, as all identification
with form, no matter how refined ceases.
Again,
those words 'favoring is not repeating' but 'going back to the
repeating'. Very excellent and helpful.
Love,
Kevin |
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new to DM and lots of questions
