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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 15 2012 : 9:05:00 PM
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Friends,
The past year has been very balancing for me. Without even asking for
it, a tremendous amount of undeserved grace has been extended to me,
and I feel it is time for me to interact with people once more.
I seem to have an improved ability to understand the purpose of
social groups, their basic rules, and the pecking order that must be
obeyed, if one wishes to be a member. So I hope that I will be a good
and helpful traveler on the road we share, when I post at AYP.
Now, at the present time AYP is not my primary system, but I do
really appreciate the wisdom of how it was created. AYP is in fact
a huge "karma burning machine". It's brilliant.
On a related note, I know this fellow, he's quite plugged into the
flow of things, who uses a system out there in the world like AYP,
to burn off his own karma, from a time when he was responsible for a
lot of people losing their way. The people in his group don't even
know it, but he is processing a lot of their karma through his own
system (2 meanings of the word system there).
Please forgive my speaking off topic, but I couldn't resist saying "hi" first.
I'm interested in a topic that doesn't seem to be present in AYP,
but perhaps I haven't studied carefully enough. I've read all the
posts on this website and all but 2 of Yogani's books, but I still
haven't come across it.
In own personal experience for what that's worth, there are two basic modes I have experienced during my 50 years of awareness of things.
There is this "false light" so to speak, which tends to present as "golden". Of course that is just scenery, and in fact it presents in various ways. But for purposes of discussion let's call it the golden power.
This golden power is the very sum and substance of "maya" or illusion / self-delusion. In my experience it is the first power to awaken in the body after much spiritual practice. Some call this power
Kundalini.
This power is famous for Her energy surges, bloated egos, and all sorts of experiences that tend to make one think that one is all special and spiritual. However one is simply in Her trap, the trap known as matter and the illusion of separation.
I know people who play with Her non-stop, and who think way highly of themselves, while in fact I don't see the outer signs that one should see - patience, kindness, compassion, tolerance, self-honesty and all the good attributes that should be in evidence.
I also know a very few people who seem to be free/mostly free of Her
influence, and that includes some very impressive individuals who are
AYP leaders. No I won't mention names; that has no place here; all
who seek together should be equally loved and not 'graded'. We are
all here for each other, at least that's how I take it. (even people
like me who may not be that likeable).
Once all the games are over, and the Self looks back and sees itself,
there is a phase which I personally call the Silver phase as it
involves what I call the silver power. Again, this is just scenery,
but it's an apt name and I feel a number of people here would
recognize what I am referrng to, from their personal experience.
This 'Silver Power' is not connected with the world of maya, except in the most minimal sense. When the "Silver Power' takes up residence in one's body, you have ecstasy in all your cells as well, like with the Golden Power, but the ecstasy is mostly free of delusion and all the spiritual games. The Silver Power does not bloat the ego; it does not place a heavy load on the body; it is the essence of spring on a new world, that one looks down upon and knows the utmost joy.
Now I understand the importance of not making unnecessary distinctions which leads to self-delusion. I understand the importance of not heading into the direction of dualism when all is One. But making distinctions about very basic things, such as whether one is noisy or full of stillness; whether one has a heavy ego pretending to be spiritual or simply wishes to serve without drawing any attention to themselves. Certain distinctions are appropriate.
So I'm wondering whether this distinction of the two types of
ecstatic conductivity are taught within AYP, or whether this is
just something I and others have come across, that does not belong
within AYP for whatever reason. I can also see where it might not
be helpful to make a distinction like this; who is anyone to say that
anothers ecstatic conductivity is one way or another?
I'd also say that people to whom Samyama comes naturaly should
certainly concur about the type of ecstatic conducitivity I
mention here.
I thank you all very kindly for your patience and good will,
when talking to someone from outside your daily circle of friends.
Namaste,
Kevin |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2012 : 11:02:23 AM
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Kevin,
It appears to me you are experiencing what some would say is "just part of the journey".
Of course, for anyone who experiences a powerful and undeniable spiritual experience there will be stages of growth as one moves from duality to nonduality.
Whatever you want to call it, gold, silver, purple, it's all just scenery. When the ego is strong, it calls the light its own. As the spirit emerges the self realizes that the light is not its own, but that it is in fact the light.
For me, there is only one ecstatic conductivity. It's the quality of the perception that changes. |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2012 : 1:05:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Kevin,
It appears to me you are experiencing what some would say is "just part of the journey".
Of course, for anyone who experiences a powerful and undeniable spiritual experience there will be stages of growth as one moves from duality to nonduality.
Whatever you want to call it, gold, silver, purple, it's all just scenery. When the ego is strong, it calls the light its own. As the spirit emerges the self realizes that the light is not its own, but that it is in fact the light.
For me, there is only one ecstatic conductivity. It's the quality of the perception that changes.
Thank you for your response.
In my experience the most important parts of the journey are never taught in the world and some of the things that don't matter much sometimes have entire books written about them;
For example, certain misunderstood aspects of the Kundalini process have contributed greatly to human suffering for more than 6,000 years.
I for one would prefer not to sweep things as fundamental as E=MC2
under the rug and call it 'scenery'; although in a sense, yes it is.
The truth is, that most of the practices of Hatha yoga for example are 'scenery' too. Now I know that the Rishis observed the human body and the 'automatic kriyas' and then formalized them into spiritual practices from which everything we do has flowed.
Yet, we don't call this type of 'scenery' scenery. We use these practices as useful tools, even though these practices which can assist in the path to liberation are equally capable of locking one
into self-delusion for endless ages. A sword points both ways.
This is my point.
Of course each person must determine this for themselves through the process of the silent witness and discernment.
Namaste,
Kevin |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2012 : 1:36:58 PM
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quote:
So I'm wondering whether this distinction of the two types of ecstatic conductivity are taught within AYP
Hi Kevin, it’s good to have you active in the forums again. I’ve enjoyed reading your posts in the past.
Yogani doesn’t exactly refer to two types of ecstatic conductivity – but here, for example, in lesson 43: http://www.aypsite.com/43.html
He refers specifically to the effect that unbalanced practice of pranayama, without deep meditation can lead to:
quote:
On the other hand, practicing pranayama alone without meditation can leave the practitioner vulnerable in some ways. Imagine you plow a field, turning the rich soil over and over. It is exposed, fertile, and ready for the seed to be planted. What will you plant there? If you meditate deeply with an effective method, you will plant the field full with the seed of pure bliss consciousness, and it will germinate and grow strong, filling the field with joy. But what if you don't meditate, and you don't plant anything in particular in your fertile pranayama field? What will grow there? Something will. But what? Whatever happens to be around. Some desires, some thoughts, some emotions, whatever happens to be blowing over the field. To tell you the truth, a lot of weeds can grow there, because there is no crop of pure bliss consciousness filling up that field. This is why pranayama, practiced as a stand-alone over months and years, can lead to less instead of more. In some people this type of imbalanced practice can lead to increasing rigidness, egotism, anxiety, anger, and just plain bad luck.
I have directly experienced the results of the following equation:
Huge inflows of ecstatic energy + Not much inner silence & strong ego = problematic situations
The ecstatic energy, without the presence of deep inner silence can result in things like: becoming unusually charismatic and magnetic, decreased inhibitions and consequent loss of self-control, huge outflow of energy into the world via desires etcetera, etcetera. It was a phase in my practice, I spotted it, it felt wrong, and so I stopped all energy cultivation practices, and focused on self-inquiry and deep meditation.
It’s almost as though, without inner silence, there’s nowhere for all the energy to go in the nervous system, so it flows outward into the world in the form of stronger desires, stronger and more magnetic personality, love of life (in not a totally healthy way - more like love of maya), anger outbursts, emotional instability. The ecstatic energy flows into everything about you - the good, and the bad too, and makes it an enhanced caricature of its usual self.
The re-focus on self-inquiry and DM, combined with cessation of energy cultivation, actually resulted in some breakthroughs in practice: insight into no-self, experiencing all sense perceptions, thoughts, emotions etc as floating on an ocean of silent, blissful awareness, increased humility and love for others, groundedness, gentleness, calm and decreased egotism.
When I first got onto pranayama and energy cultivation, the strong and pleasant experiences of ecstasy were an addictive lure. However, now I naturally favor the subtle and hard to notice effects of inner silence, as they break down the ego from the inside out. One of the key things that happened: dis-identification from emotional highs and lows, and desire for positive feelings. It's somewhat natural, right? To want to feel good, and not to feel bad. However, in many people, this desire remains at a child-like level and we'll do things to feel good: drinking alcohol, excessive sex, drugs, even exploiting spiritual practices - but because they make us feel good, we disregard negative consequences that may arise from the actions. We'd rather feel good than be responsible. Certainly it was the case for me.
There's been a maturation now. Of course it's nice to feel good sometimes, but I find it so much easier to do the RIGHT thing, instead of the most pleasurable one. The intense attachment to and desire for certain emotional forms 'positive emotions' has been dissolved to an extent.
And perhaps I've become a wiser, calmer, and more compassionate person. There's been much dissolving of the bonds of identification with form also. |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Jul 16 2012 1:52:17 PM |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2012 : 2:03:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_anderson
quote:
So I'm wondering whether this distinction of the two types of ecstatic conductivity are taught within AYP
Hi Kevin, it’s good to have you active in the forums again. I’ve enjoyed reading your posts in the past.
Yogani doesn’t exactly refer to two types of ecstatic conductivity – but here, for example, in lesson 43: http://www.aypsite.com/43.html
He refers specifically to the effect that unbalanced practice of pranayama, without deep meditation can lead to:
quote:
On the other hand, practicing pranayama alone without meditation can leave the practitioner vulnerable in some ways. Imagine you plow a field, turning the rich soil over and over. It is exposed, fertile, and ready for the seed to be planted. What will you plant there? If you meditate deeply with an effective method, you will plant the field full with the seed of pure bliss consciousness, and it will germinate and grow strong, filling the field with joy. But what if you don't meditate, and you don't plant anything in particular in your fertile pranayama field? What will grow there? Something will. But what? Whatever happens to be around. Some desires, some thoughts, some emotions, whatever happens to be blowing over the field. To tell you the truth, a lot of weeds can grow there, because there is no crop of pure bliss consciousness filling up that field. This is why pranayama, practiced as a stand-alone over months and years, can lead to less instead of more. In some people this type of imbalanced practice can lead to increasing rigidness, egotism, anxiety, anger, and just plain bad luck.
I have directly experienced the results of the following equation:
Huge inflows of ecstatic energy + Not much inner silence & strong ego = problematic situations
The ecstatic energy, without the presence of deep inner silence can result in things like: becoming unusually charismatic and magnetic, decreased inhibitions and consequent loss of self-control, huge outflow of energy into the world via desires etcetera, etcetera. It was a phase in my practice, I spotted it, it felt wrong, and so I stopped all energy cultivation practices, and focused on self-inquiry and deep meditation.
It’s almost as though, without inner silence, there’s nowhere for all the energy to go in the nervous system, so it flows outward into the world in the form of stronger desires, stronger and more magnetic personality, love of live etc.
The re-focus on self-inquiry and DM, combined with cessation of energy cultivation, actually resulted in some breakthroughs in practice: insight into no-self, experiencing all sense perceptions, thoughts, emotions etc as floating on an ocean of silent, blissful awareness, increased humility and love for others, groundedness, gentleness, calm and decreased egotism.
When I first got onto pranayama and energy cultivation, the strong and pleasant experiences of ecstasy were an addictive lure. However, now I naturally favor the subtle and hard to notice effects of inner silence, as they break down the ego from the inside out. The fruits: freedom from identification with form, and the consequence, becoming a wiser, calmer, and more compassionate person.
Mr Anderson,
You know, my name used to be Mr. Anderson too --- long story there.
What a nice post!
My entire body trembles with joy when people "get it".
You are very correct about "nowhere for the energy to go".
In my experience with AYP practices at least, DM is the portion
which burns off karma (energy blocks) and makes the field fertile.
Spinal breathing and a few other practices builds the suShumna
(the somatosensory cortex and a few adjacent systems; this is the
purely physical component of course).
And -- this part seems to be so ignored by many; when one hugs a person who needs cheering up; when one sits with a homeless person and holds their hand; when one is a true witness in the world; in short, when one LIVES the yoga, THEN and only THEN does the energy truly have
'somewhere to go'.
The folks who are at a standstill in their practice, who are in despair of never experiencing liberation, who endlessly and tirelessly look for the next practice; these are the folks who have damned up their energy and so the source dries up.
It's really that simple.
LIFE is the true meditation; your interaction with the world is the true kriya.
Just as Yogani has so masterfully taught, we may not ignore ANY of the limbs of yoga. A wheel cannot rotate when when 1/8th is deformed.
Now of course we all have our preferences and aptitudes, and we can't do everything at once.
If we do not face the world bright and clear, to the roots of our beings while shaking in the gentle gale wind of the Genuine, then we are just faking it, and are not fully alive.
I for one wish to be fully alive.
And I realize that my boisterousness attracts a few and repels a great many. I suppose this is why I don't have what it takes to be a spiritual teacher; but then again, I do not wish to be a spiritual teacher. I wish to be alive moment by moment; never being any one thing, but being a conduit for Everything. And if this means I'm a garbageman one day and a babysitter the next; why that is my joy.
Freedom is not having to be 'spiritual'.
Freedom is not having to be anything.
Freedom is not even having to be.
Freedom is being what you must, without losing the joy of not having to be at all.
Thank you friend.
Kevin |
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JimProfit
France
8 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2012 : 4:39:47 PM
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Thank you Kevin,
"LIFE is the true meditation; your interaction with the world is the true kriya"...rings true to me.
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2012 : 7:05:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JimProfit
Thank you Kevin,
"LIFE is the true meditation; your interaction with the world is the true kriya"...rings true to me.
Thanks Jim.
It is true that we must all whip ourselves into shape, with our Bhakti (spiritual devotion) drawing the self to the Self, and a beautiful system of Yoga is a great help, and a great community is a real blessing. But after the spiritual calisthenics have removed the gunk, and we are filled with the Self, then it is time to chop wood and carry water.
Have you ever seen the ten oxherding pictures Jim?
Here is one:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/mzb/oxherd.htm
Now there is a final picture that should be in his sequence
(now that would be the 11 oxherding pictures wouldn't it :-) )
But it shows the spiritual hero walking back down the mountain,
after having faced the ultimate challenge of spiritual fireworks.
In the end, nothing is supernatural or even 'spiritual'. Everything simply is what it is, and the 'hero' bends down with strong back muscles rippling, to chop wood and carry water.
It makes me cry.
Some people spend a lifetime with yoga and the message falls on hard soil. Others barely seem to need yoga and jump into the world of action (karma). It is different for each of us. Eternity does not
allow for a timed race.
The most Selfish being in all reality is the Self you know. Everything flows according to the One, and no other way. Selfishness is part and parcel of all of us; even the One respects the selfishness of each of us.
We all learn at our own pace, and on our own schedule. The words and energies of 'others' are barely noticed by any of us. We see others as reflections in our own energy fields.
Nobody can teach anyone the tiniest thing. All we can do is to be
loving and kind, supportive of others who are really us, until
we all call it a day and go home together, at the end of the
great cycle.
Now this thread has wandered away from AYP, so I for one am
going to stop posting to it.
Namaste,
Kev
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 12:53:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_anderson
I have directly experienced the results of the following equation:
Huge inflows of ecstatic energy + Not much inner silence & strong ego = problematic situations
The ecstatic energy, without the presence of deep inner silence can result in things like: becoming unusually charismatic and magnetic, decreased inhibitions and consequent loss of self-control, huge outflow of energy into the world via desires etcetera, etcetera. It was a phase in my practice, I spotted it, it felt wrong, and so I stopped all energy cultivation practices, and focused on self-inquiry and deep meditation.
It’s almost as though, without inner silence, there’s nowhere for all the energy to go in the nervous system, so it flows outward into the world in the form of stronger desires, stronger and more magnetic personality, love of life (in not a totally healthy way - more like love of maya), anger outbursts, emotional instability. The ecstatic energy flows into everything about you - the good, and the bad too, and makes it an enhanced caricature of its usual self.
The re-focus on self-inquiry and DM, combined with cessation of energy cultivation, actually resulted in some breakthroughs in practice: insight into no-self, experiencing all sense perceptions, thoughts, emotions etc as floating on an ocean of silent, blissful awareness, increased humility and love for others, groundedness, gentleness, calm and decreased egotism.
When I first got onto pranayama and energy cultivation, the strong and pleasant experiences of ecstasy were an addictive lure. However, now I naturally favor the subtle and hard to notice effects of inner silence, as they break down the ego from the inside out. One of the key things that happened: dis-identification from emotional highs and lows, and desire for positive feelings. It's somewhat natural, right? To want to feel good, and not to feel bad. However, in many people, this desire remains at a child-like level and we'll do things to feel good: drinking alcohol, excessive sex, drugs, even exploiting spiritual practices - but because they make us feel good, we disregard negative consequences that may arise from the actions. We'd rather feel good than be responsible. Certainly it was the case for me.
I have for the past week been doing just that - cutting back completely on SB to focus only on DM for the exact reasons - too much ecstatic energy flows, not enough inner silence. You talk of the hard to notice presence of inner silence - this is why, personally, I would recommend new-comers to do Deep Meditation ONLY for several months until they KNOW what inner silence feels like before adding SB. Adding SB immediately with practices you may get carried away on the highs of ecstatic conductivity without ever noticing the most important Inner silence and its effects. I did DM a whole year before adding SB, so now I can notice what is missing in my practices and adjust accordingly.
Thank you for bringing this up
Sey |
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The Light and the False Light
