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Namath
350 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 28 2012 : 11:40:15 AM
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"Divine is everywhere. It is in you and me and the cat which is rubbing itself against your skin. Surrender is the best way to go in either concept."
that's very true...but does this method help anyone get enlightened :) In this case,everyone is an expression of the divine and no need to do any practices at all :)...
my experience is slightly different from yours:) I believe in effort+ Divine grace.Both needed to reach realization.One without the other doesn't work.My inner guru is Ramana & I feel he sends me to Yassin and sufism,don't know what's his plan but I trust him as I trust Yassin.maybe he knows I'm originally muslim so he's using it as a key for my surrender.I love Ganeshan very much (grand nephew of Ramana) I once complained to him about what's going on with me when I'm in touch with Yassin(the sufi)....& how I loose touch with Ramana...His reply was a direct indication to follow Yassin and he ended his message with no pain no gain
Even the dream I shared with you on your post about the Sheikh that I took his hand...when he was aprroaching towards me I was happy thinking it's Ramana in new custom ...but when he got very near,I stayed staring at him for sometime...he feels Ramana but looks different!
All's good!
Salam 3alaykom Shankar.
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yogishankar
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2012 : 12:46:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogishankar
quote:
Originally posted by Namath
Nice
thanx Shankar!
there's a certain frustration from visions over here...One time I see Visions related to Ramana & Shivaism and in some time I'm being pulled in that direction another time visions related to Sufism...I feel like a football thrown from one playground to another...I wonder when all this ends.
the only lesson I feel is meant for me from all this is learning to surrender...why not football,football!let it be
Love.
Divine is everywhere. It is in you and me and the cat which is rubbing itself against your skin. Surrender is the best way to go in either concept.
Yoga is much wider principle, taking care of body, breath, mind, intellect, divine consciousness. Sufism is focussed on mind. The Sufi Sheikh is really more of a doctor of heart and he is able to understand seeker's impediments and issues to knowledge and pure intention in serving God and hand hold the seeker to reach his goals. Without Sheikh, one will not be able to proceed ahead in Sufism. That is not the case in Yoga. Guru is within you. All you have to do is that you have to practice Yoga sincerely. Divine blooms automatically in your heart.
My realization is that even before going to stage of realization of Divine, the very first step should be that we should become human. If we become human in real sense, then Divine will automatically come to us. Divine need not be categorized as shaivism or sufism.
Habibti,
I went away to my practices after posting the above msg. This may not be exactly applicable to you.
I can sense that you are an evolved human being. Divine will come automatically to you. You need not worry at all.
You are asking about Sufism Vs Shaivism. You may be surprised to know that both are similar and both are coming from Tantra. Both use mind, emotions and heart as the vessel to see the Ultimate. Shaivism is in existence for almost 10000 yrs, while Sufism is there for last 1200 yrs. Shaivism has more number of meditation techniques, while Sufism has less in number.
I was introduced to Dhikr and Sema, Muraqaba by my friend. Any way, even before I know what is Dhikr, I have been practising Dhikr, known as Mantra Japa or Mantra Yoga. I have gone to the state of Ajapa Japa, meaning I would be chanting the praise of God's name unconsciously. Sheikh has to fine-tune the dhikr of the seeker and for each seeker, the practice vary. In Shaivism, there are many meditation and tantra techniques. Vijnana Bhairava Tantra gives about 112 meditation techniques and Soundarya Lahiri gives about 100 techniques. These techniques are proven methods and one of these will work for any one and every one. Many of the Shaivism techniques have been adopted by Buddhism and Taoism.
I have noticed about my friend that she is not dressing properly (normally girls have dress sense and they like to beautify themselves), she does not put any make-up, not eating food, she lives in solitude (one room just 12'x12'), reading some book all the time, does not sleep at all, does not do any work for earning, she looks dull. She is suffering a lot. I am aware that after that kind of suffering, Divine comes in.
In my opinion, even before start practising the Shaivism or Sufism techniques, one need to be purified mentally. Though today's person is not violent, he or she is still cunning and have mental impressions which will not allow spiritual growth. Spiritual growth happens in a person when he/ she becomes innocent, speaks truth, has purest mind and intentions, with no past mental impressions.
Living Shaivism masters such as Isha's Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev, Art of Living Srisri, Anandamurti Gurumaa, etc have introduced new techniques for removal of past mental impressions and to bring the human beings to innocence and purest form. There after, one can practice one of the techniques (total about 250)to sense the Divine. It is easy to sense Divine Grace very quickly. Sufism does not have any technique so far to bring back the individual in his/ her innocent and purest form.
I am in tears whenever I remember my friend for her self sufferings. I don't think that such type of sufferings necessary to become a purified person to receive Divine grace. |
Edited by - yogishankar on Jun 28 2012 3:33:08 PM |
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yogishankar
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2012 : 12:59:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Namath
my experience is slightly different from yours:) I believe in effort+ Divine grace.Both needed to reach realization.One without the other doesn't work.My inner guru is Ramana & I feel he sends me to Yassin and sufism,don't know what's his plan but I trust him as I trust Yassin.maybe he knows I'm originally muslim so he's using it as a key for my surrender.I love Ganeshan very much (grand nephew of Ramana) I once complained to him about what's going on with me when I'm in touch with Yassin(the sufi)....& how I loose touch with Ramana...His reply was a direct indication to follow Yassin and he ended his message with no pain no gain
Even the dream I shared with you on your post about the Sheikh that I took his hand...when he was aprroaching towards me I was happy thinking it's Ramana in new custom...but when he got very near,I stayed staring at him for sometime...he feels Ramana but looks different!
All's good!
Salam 3alaykom Shankar.
Religion such as Hinduism or Islam or Christianity are only meant for common people like us.
Spiritually evolved people such as Gurus, Sheikhs, Bishops, Rabbi, etc are all beyond religion. For them, Divine is only one and Divine can be reached thru any religion. So they don't propagate or impose their religion on others.
I agree with you that effort+divine grace is needed for Enlightenment. Divine Grace is there for any one and every one who is sincere and dedicated. So let us eliminate that. Focus should on putting up sincere, effective effort. Effort is the path. There are various approaches for the effort. Important question is whether we need a Guru or not. One philosophy is that Guru is within you. Another is to find a genuine Guru who guides you in the path. The genuine Guru should be easily approachable and he or she should be able to guide you and handhold you. Both Shaivism and Sufism speaks about importance of Guru and having one. Guru or Sheikh will come to you automatically, if you are prepared. So prepare yourselves with purest mind and thoughts, speak truth (follow yama and niyama)and be innocent deliberately. Be with the nature.
Best wishes
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Edited by - yogishankar on Jun 28 2012 1:47:57 PM |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2012 : 1:37:20 PM
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thank you for the information,enjoyed reading your replies
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I am in tears whenever I remember my friend for her self sufferings. I don't think that such type of sufferings necessary to become a purified person to receive Divine grace."
:) don't be sad!she chooses that by will.How can you be sure she's suffering?If everyone think you are suffering and you are not...why worry!
Ramana asked me to sit on his left & listened to my chat patiently ...He asked me if I wish to come with him & said he'll come and take me on 16th of march...
I'm waiting!
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Edited by - Namath on Jun 28 2012 1:42:34 PM |
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yogishankar
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2012 : 2:02:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Namath
don't be sad!she chooses that by will.How can you be sure she's suffering?If everyone think you are suffering and you are not...why worry!
Yes, you are right. I don't know whether she is really suffering or not, but I am suffering and feeling the pain when I see some one is bleeding or wounded, etc.
In Yoga also, tapas/ self austerity measures is part of Niyama and considered as important. Good thing about Yoga is that once we start practising regularly, we get the tapas/ self austerity measures coming automatically to us.
quote:
Originally posted by Namath Ramana asked me to sit on his left & listened to my chat patiently ...He asked me if I wish to come with him & said he'll come and take me on 16th of march...
I'm waiting!
You are lucky:). Good for you. |
Edited by - yogishankar on Jun 28 2012 11:23:32 PM |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2012 : 03:00:44 AM
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Morning Shankar;
"I have noticed about my friend that she is not dressing properly (normally girls have dress sense and they like to beautify themselves), she does not put any make-up, not eating food, she lives in solitude (one room just 12'x12'), reading some book all the time, does not sleep at all, does not do any work for earning, she looks dull. She is suffering a lot. I am aware that after that kind of suffering, Divine comes in."
The make-up part came to mind before meditation last night.I have to agree with your friend. I have nothing against make-up for I myself wear eyes make-up & nailpolish when I go out with friends in the evening but I remove it when I reach home asap :).I've noticed something about nail polish!!Meditation is not as deep as without nail polish....Maybe it's an energy thing,I don't know...Just an observation.
As for Isolation,if it's a must...Divine has some good work to do over here as I love people and enjoy being with them
not eating food,
Not that great appetite over here as well,I push myself to have one meal per day sometimes...But I make sure I take care of my health.
"does not do any work for earning,"
At certain time,I felt all that's I'm asked for is to sit and meditate and everything else will be taken care of...But I rebelled ...& in a week I started working.Not sure how long I'll be left to play this work-game
There's one more higher being that visits me as well.It's Mar Charbel:http://www.marcharbel.com/
I've mentioning him as he visited during meditation yesterday or the day before...I'm not sure what does he want.There's no any emotional link to his person.He's one of those saints that led very strict Isolated life-style.
All Love.
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yogishankar
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2012 : 08:48:35 AM
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Namath, Shlonech?
BTW, have you also taken the hand of the Sheikh?
Sorry for causing confusion. She loves people and being with them. She has done a lot of charity work and social service. She does not live alone, unlike me. She is surrounded by her family and well protected.
As a matter of fact, I am determined to observe strict 'Tapas' life style and started today. I am having severe eye pain and strain   . Planning to go for a walk to unwind myself. |
Edited by - yogishankar on Jun 29 2012 09:02:44 AM |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2012 : 10:15:30 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by yogishankar
...
"Namath, Shlonech?"
Zeina
BTW, have you also taken the hand of the Sheikh?
Did I?I don't know ...you mean surrender right?I took his hand in dream.
One thing that's fixed so far over here through out all the experiences is keeping up "AYP practices"
"I am having severe eye pain and strain ."
Same here eye pain but from allergy :)
"Planning to go for a walk to unwind myself."
Great idea!
Salam
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yogishankar
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2012 : 10:42:40 AM
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I am back now. I was meditating while walking. Walking meditation and focussing my mind completely on the mantra japa of 'aum namachivaya' for 30 min. That way, mind was made to keep quiet.
I believe in effort+ Divine grace.Both needed to reach realization.
I agree with you that effort+divine grace is needed for Enlightenment.
Effort is needed. That is one approach. On rethinking, I sense that even effort is not needed. That can be alternate approach. Just leave as it is saying that "I am not going to follow aggressively for realization". When you don't chase something, you get automatic relaxation. When you are relaxed, wonders start happening. Gautama Buddha was struggling for many years and not able to achieve enlightenment. He decided to stop his self suffering and decided to relax that night. Next day morning, he received his enlightenment.
Important question is whether we need a Guru or not.
I realize that Guru is needed for Enlightenment (and also for Tantra), while Guru is not needed for Yoga.
Not that great appetite over here as well,I push myself to have one meal per day sometimes...But I make sure I take care of my health.
One of the meditation techniques in tantra is to move away from mindless eating to conscious eating. If we put our mind on what we eat, then health will improve automatically. There will not be any obesity.
I have about 250 meditation techniques collected from various Tantra and Yoga books and plan to write about them one-by-one over a period of time. I have been practising them one-by-one now and found profient effect on me.
Salam |
Edited by - yogishankar on Jun 29 2012 11:48:25 AM |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2012 : 1:25:08 PM
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yogishankar
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2012 : 5:09:30 PM
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There's one more higher being that visits me as well.It's Mar Charbel:http://www.marcharbel.com/
I've mentioning him as he visited during meditation yesterday or the day before...I'm not sure what does he want.There's no any emotional link to his person.He's one of those saints that led very strict Isolated life-style.
Wow!! He is a great mystic and he does miracles. His energy is still around there. Unquestionable Faith and surrender move mountains. If any one prays to him with faith and surrender him asking for his help, he will help them.
Before going to bed, you would have read about him
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2012 : 01:11:20 AM
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hahaha...I didn't read anything about Mar Charble
& he doesn't come in dream...he comes in meditation usually :) |
Edited by - Namath on Jun 30 2012 01:51:52 AM |
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