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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 16 2015 : 01:29:18 AM
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Perhaps the "beam of Attention" is the bridge between Form and the Formless.
Sey  |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2015 : 1:39:57 PM
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I really like this.
Self Identity – The Key to Spontaneous Living
by Colin Drake
Below follows a simple method to investigate the nature of reality starting with one’s day-to-day experience. Each step should be considered until one experiences, or ‘sees’, its validity before moving on to the following step. If you reach a step where you do not find this possible, continue on regardless in the same way, and hopefully the flow of the investigation will make this step clear. By all means examine each step critically but with an open mind, for if you only look for ‘holes’ that’s all you will find!
1. Consider the following statement: ‘Life, for each of us, is just a series of moment-to-moment experiences’. These experiences start when we are born and continue until we die, rushing headlong after each other, so that they seem to merge into a whole that we call ‘my life’. However, if we stop to look we can readily see that, for each of us, every moment is just an experience.
2. Any moment of experience has only three elements: thoughts (including all mental images), sensations (everything sensed by the body and its sense organs) and Awareness of these thoughts and sensations. Emotions and feelings are a combination of thought and sensation.
3. Thoughts and sensations are ephemeral, that is they come and go, and are objects, i.e. ‘things’ that are perceived.
4. Awareness is the constant subject, the ‘perceiver’ of thoughts and sensations and that which is always present. Even during sleep there is Awareness of dreams and of the quality of that sleep; and there is also Awareness of sensations; if a sensation becomes strong enough, such as a sound or uncomfortable sensation, one will wake up.
5. All thoughts and sensations appear in Awareness, exist in Awareness, and subside back into Awareness. Before any particular thought or sensation there is effortless Awareness of ‘what is’: the sum of all thoughts and sensations occurring at any given instant. During the thought or sensation in question there is effortless Awareness of it within ‘what is’. Then when it has gone there is still effortless Awareness of ‘what is’.
6. So the body/mind is experienced as a flow of ephemeral objects appearing in this Awareness, the ever present subject. For each of us any external object or thing is experienced as a combination of thought and sensation, i.e. you may see it, touch it, know what it is called, and so on. The point is that for us to be aware of anything, real or imaginary, requires thought about and/or sensation of that thing and it is Awareness of these thoughts and sensations that constitutes our experience.
7. Therefore this Awareness is the constant substratum in which all things appear to arise, exist and subside. In addition, all living things rely on Awareness of their environment to exist and their behaviour is directly affected by this. At the level of living cells and above this is self-evident, but it has been shown that even electrons change their behaviour when (aware of) being observed! Thus this Awareness exists at a deeper level than body/mind (and matter/energy[14]) and we are this Awareness!
8. This does not mean that at a surface level we are not the mind and body, for they arise in, are perceived by and subside back into Awareness, which is the deepest and most fundamental level of our being. However, if we choose to identify with this deepest level – Awareness – (the perceiver) rather than the surface level, mind/body (the perceived), then thoughts and sensations are seen for what they truly are, just ephemeral objects which come and go, leaving Awareness itself totally unaffected.
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2015 : 1:50:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jonesboy
I really like this.
Self Identity – The Key to Spontaneous Living
by Colin Drake
Below follows a simple method to investigate the nature of reality starting with one’s day-to-day experience. Each step should be considered until one experiences, or ‘sees’, its validity before moving on to the following step. If you reach a step where you do not find this possible, continue on regardless in the same way, and hopefully the flow of the investigation will make this step clear. By all means examine each step critically but with an open mind, for if you only look for ‘holes’ that’s all you will find!
1. Consider the following statement: ‘Life, for each of us, is just a series of moment-to-moment experiences’. These experiences start when we are born and continue until we die, rushing headlong after each other, so that they seem to merge into a whole that we call ‘my life’. However, if we stop to look we can readily see that, for each of us, every moment is just an experience.
2. Any moment of experience has only three elements: thoughts (including all mental images), sensations (everything sensed by the body and its sense organs) and Awareness of these thoughts and sensations. Emotions and feelings are a combination of thought and sensation.
3. Thoughts and sensations are ephemeral, that is they come and go, and are objects, i.e. ‘things’ that are perceived.
4. Awareness is the constant subject, the ‘perceiver’ of thoughts and sensations and that which is always present. Even during sleep there is Awareness of dreams and of the quality of that sleep; and there is also Awareness of sensations; if a sensation becomes strong enough, such as a sound or uncomfortable sensation, one will wake up.
5. All thoughts and sensations appear in Awareness, exist in Awareness, and subside back into Awareness. Before any particular thought or sensation there is effortless Awareness of ‘what is’: the sum of all thoughts and sensations occurring at any given instant. During the thought or sensation in question there is effortless Awareness of it within ‘what is’. Then when it has gone there is still effortless Awareness of ‘what is’.
6. So the body/mind is experienced as a flow of ephemeral objects appearing in this Awareness, the ever present subject. For each of us any external object or thing is experienced as a combination of thought and sensation, i.e. you may see it, touch it, know what it is called, and so on. The point is that for us to be aware of anything, real or imaginary, requires thought about and/or sensation of that thing and it is Awareness of these thoughts and sensations that constitutes our experience.
7. Therefore this Awareness is the constant substratum in which all things appear to arise, exist and subside. In addition, all living things rely on Awareness of their environment to exist and their behaviour is directly affected by this. At the level of living cells and above this is self-evident, but it has been shown that even electrons change their behaviour when (aware of) being observed! Thus this Awareness exists at a deeper level than body/mind (and matter/energy[14]) and we are this Awareness!
8. This does not mean that at a surface level we are not the mind and body, for they arise in, are perceived by and subside back into Awareness, which is the deepest and most fundamental level of our being. However, if we choose to identify with this deepest level – Awareness – (the perceiver) rather than the surface level, mind/body (the perceived), then thoughts and sensations are seen for what they truly are, just ephemeral objects which come and go, leaving Awareness itself totally unaffected.
These ideas are taken straight from textbook vipassana, three characteristics: impermance, unsatisfactoriness, and no-self. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2015 : 06:57:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
Perhaps the "beam of Attention" is the bridge between Form and the Formless.
Sey
I like this metaphor of the bridge between the form and the formless and how we can be on this bridge with as you say the beam of attention. It strikes me that we could be dancing on this bridge with our attention in the present moment with awareness of both worlds as they might overlap on the bridge.
I would ususally think of a doorway rather than a bridge (I Think Rumi uses doorway also in some of his works). Bridge allows for more freedom and dancing and even dancing with others - very nice 
This is the Ha'penny Bridge over the river Liffey in Dublin and is the one I think of when using your metaphor.
Maybe the trick is not to get too stuck in one world or the other and through inner silence and inquiry operate in the world of form with all it's intricacies and convolutions and still have reference to the formless but without getting lost in either.
Of course we will get lost in one or the other at times, that's a given, but then we have our practices to keep bringing us back to the bridge.
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Edited by - Sparkle on Apr 17 2015 07:04:31 AM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2015 : 5:49:07 PM
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Hey Ananda,
I'm really connecting with what you're saying at the moment.
I've been experiencing the witness dissolving into unity recently, which is accompanied by a massive sense of love and opening of the heart. And also authentic self-expression, like my spiritual side is no longer separate from my worldly side - the two are no longer split from each other. I'm living from the center of my truth more and more in day to day life.
Awareness used to feel like it was slightly a witness, slightly detached or separate from experience.
I once would've said there's:
-Awareness: this vast, spacious expanse of pure consciousness (my true nature)
-Experience: the changing appearances running through the expanse of pure consciousness (thoughts, feelings, perceptions)
But now I feel very grounded as pure consciousness, and whilst consistently experiencing this vast spaciousness of consciousness, I feel no sense of separation between consciousness and experience. They are one and the same.
I've started to notice how sounds are consciousness, how thoughts are consciousness, how sensations are consciousness, how perceptions are consciousness. And in this, there's this sense of deep love. I still feel energetic flickers of separation running through experience, coloring perception, so that it feels day to day like reality is a hologram: flickering between seeming solid, external objective and real, and being seen clearly as the transparency and love of pure consciousness.
This stage is currently being characterized by a transformation of how I relate to "other people". During the sense of separation between awareness and experience the ego was still very much an active player, wanting validation, feeling negative emotions sometimes towards others and so on. Whereas with the arising of very clear non-dual perception there's just... SO MUCH MORE LOVE for everyone. It's like someone took a stopper out of my heart and love can now spring forth - particularly for my family (in the past, they would really piss me off, and now, I just love them instead!)
I really like the Atiyoga teachings at present (namely Dzogchen), and I think you would as well. In the realization that everything is awareness, you realize that there are no real obstructions to your true nature, it's as easily available and present and can't possibly be obstructed because everything is already in its natural state!
There's a real change in this when you realize the thoughts and feelings arising in awareness, ARE awareness, and thus are no obstruction. There's some great, transparent, liberating openess in this.
Hope you don't mind me sharing! Sorry to write a darn novel on the subject |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Dec 13 2015 : 12:53:15 AM
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| No dear, i enjoyed it. Thank you#128591; The teachings of my sufi master have been that all is god and i realize now that this is truth. Imho it's all about practice or suffering for a spiritual seeker. One better practice daily.. Much love namaste |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Dec 13 2015 : 04:11:05 AM
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Thank you for sharing this experience Mr. Anderson.
I am sorry to jump in, did not see this topic before. I believe this experience I had some months ago.
It was a sudden recognition that I still was divided. Jim and his Karma mentioned something here on the forum about the center and then suddenly there it was, so much space. Why stay in the center. Later I thought of the metaphor of the claypot filled with water, breaking in the ocean, that was the feeling.
Now some months later, I can say that the space is still there as awareness, and in that awareness arises everything. A constant arising and dissolving, but still it is possible to be aware of it, isn't it, aware of the awareness?
That awareness is not mine. Is it possible to see true the eyes of universal awareness?
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Edited by - Charliedog on Dec 13 2015 05:06:34 AM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Dec 13 2015 : 07:15:29 AM
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Hey Charliedog,
quote:
the claypot filled with water, breaking in the ocean, that was the feeling
Yes
quote:
A constant arising and dissolving, but still it is possible to be aware of it, isn't it, aware of the awareness?
I feel I need to tread lightly here in responding to this, because shades of meaning can easily become lost in communicating on the internet. I don't want to imply something which is ultimately misleading. Whilst the intellect is often denigrated in spirituality, it's effective use is essential in Jnana and I do think that in this case a perfectly clear intellectual understanding, free of any misunderstanding, is quite essential for a very clear experiential realization.
So with great caution, I'll take a shot at responding to this question.
My answer is "yes" and also "no".
The No Answer
Awareness being aware of Awareness would seem to imply division, would it not? Is there one Awareness which is Aware of another Awareness? Can Awareness divide itself into two: The Awareness which is Aware, and the Awareness that Awareness is Aware of?
Awareness is completely empty of all objective, know-able attributes. It's pure empty, spacious, knowingness. Awareness is Aware, and all there is, is Awareness. Thus to say "Awareness Aware of" must by default be incorrect, as "of" implies something other, a second, duality of which Awareness could be Aware. Given there's nothing other than Awareness, what could Awareness be Aware of? There is just Awareness. That is all.
"Awareness abides as the aspect that is aware under any and all circumstances, and so occurs naturally, without transition or change. For this reason, it should be understood to be ultimately abiding Suchness." - Longchenpa, from the Vajra Heart Essence, Nying Thig section of Dzogchen
However, I suspect from what you've written, that quite possibly this is already clear to you, and thus follows my "yes" answer.
N.B. I seem to remember a post I read recently mentioning the Albigen Method, Awareness watching Awareness. If this has influenced you, in my opinion (and note that I say this in spite of the fact that reading the Albigen Method in around 2008 caused me to slip into timeless freedom for the first time ever) it doesn't expound upon the correct view with enough depth and clarity that all misunderstanding and confusion are removed. Without complete clarity of understanding, one can look in all the wrong directions.
The Yes Answer
I would say that it's possible for the mind to notice that Awareness is Aware.
When the mind notices Awareness is Aware, the mind dies into this recognition, like a moth touching a flame (to quote Rupert Spira).
Here's an enjoyable quote:
“When we say that the mind can see itself, this is not at all like an eye seeing itself. Rather, the mind, being awareness, can experience its own awareness. In fact, this is not difficult to do at all because the mind is not looking for something far away. It’s right here.
You might ask then, if it’s right here, and it’s always been right here, why have you never seen it? The reason is that, throughout beginningless time, we have been afflicted by ignorance and, under the sway of ignorance, we have never looked. If you look, then you can recognize the mind’s true nature, which is that it has no substantial existence whatsoever and yet is not a mere nothingness or static emptiness. It is pure awareness. This is something that you can experience directly in meditation.”
-Thrangu Rinpoche, Pointing Out the Dharmakaya
I like to refer to Awareness, the Knowing Aspect, as "the changeless context of experience".
I like to refer to Experience, the Known Aspect, as "the changing content of experience".
It's helpful to make this distinction initially, although it may create a subtle division, eventually this division will naturally collapse.
Let's take an experiment to establish the changeless context:
1. Allow a thought to arise of a pink elephant.
2. Notice that awareness, ordinary knowing, is present before, during and after the appearance of the thought of a "pink elephant".
3. Awareness is not present as anything which is known, but there is undeniably Awareness, Consciousness or Knowing present as the context in which the thought of a pink elephant appears.
4. The thought of the pink elephant is present as the changing content of experience.
5. Awareness, in which the thought of the pink elephant arises and disappears, is present as the changeless context of experience.
6. Now notice that the changing content of experience is itself "made out of" awareness. A thought is made of awareness, or knowing.
This is what I call "the mind noticing it's source" or "the mind noticing Awareness".
In some sense this is Awareness being Aware of being Aware. And thus whilst my answer is "no", my answer is also "yes".
I hope that this clearly communicates my point, without causing the belief or disbelief in any particular conceptual answer. |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Dec 13 2015 07:16:35 AM |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Dec 13 2015 : 11:28:10 AM
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Thank you Josh for taking the time to answer my question. It is a bit tricky for me to talk about this, also the fact that English is not my language does not make this more easy.
For now let it be.
Edit: In the case of the metaphor of the water filled breaking pot in the water, it is clear.
If the center is free because the pot has been broken, the waves can only be made out of the water.
Gives so much space. Reading your post yesterday, it became kind of vague , there was doubt if I maybe misunderstood your words, thinking about it, made it worse. So it is, sometimes very clear, sometimes blurry. 
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Edited by - Charliedog on Dec 14 2015 07:16:40 AM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Dec 13 2015 : 12:48:15 PM
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kjward
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2016 : 12:59:10 PM
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greetings ananda!
i have searched hi and lo alas in vain for copies of sri atmananda's atma-darshan and atma-nirvriti. would it be possible to obtain pdf's of these from you?
thanks ever so much in advance.
most respectfully,
kjward
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
No dear, i enjoyed it. Thank you#128591; The teachings of my sufi master have been that all is god and i realize now that this is truth. Imho it's all about practice or suffering for a spiritual seeker. One better practice daily.. Much love namaste
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2016 : 2:52:52 PM
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Hi kjward
No need to search 'hi and lo'. If you read the Wikipedia article on Sri Atmananda you will find the two books linked from there - just click on their titles. |
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2016 : 08:50:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_anderson
Awareness being aware of Awareness would seem to imply division, would it not? Is there one Awareness which is Aware of another Awareness? Can Awareness divide itself into two: The Awareness which is Aware, and the Awareness that Awareness is Aware of?
The experience here is that there is no duality in the consciousness unfolding on itself - awareness aware of itself. However, there is a settled duality: There is the Being, and then there is something so silent, so still, that it does not exist. The duality is between Being and Non-Being, existence and non-existence. Beyond them, there is the Full Nothingness - Pure Divinity. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2016 : 09:18:01 AM
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