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DoctorWho
USA
47 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 02:25:13 AM
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Practicing DM twice daily and marveling at how effective it is. Churning up a lot of stuff. Many interesting things are coming to the surface during sleep in powerful dreams.
I feel I could post almost everyday about these experiences but realize it's all just ever-changing stuff...par for the course. Instead, I read many of the forums here and gain insight and clarification from all of your experiences. I feel like I'm getting to know many of you 
The last week or so I have been experiencing feelings of pessimism and apathy about my life situation. I'm sure this is a sign of purification going on. I practice mindfulness as often as possible and very frequently catch myself knee-deep in my own self-pity, negativity or feelings of bitterness. Almost a contemptuous feeling about my life and circumstances (job, money, hopes, fears etc). I tell myself this is a good sign...something is happening!
I tell myself that my practice is obviously stirring up some crap in my mind and as unpleasant as this may be, the alternative (living like I used to) is out of the question.
I guess I'm just wondering what some of you have done to navigate these types of moods. These particular negative ones have been consistent for about a week now and I could use some strategies to help prevent getting pulled under by them.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 02:57:39 AM
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Yes, it can be a sign that purification is happening, it can also be a sign that you are over loading and need to self pace and work on some grounding.
That said, I suspect each of us has a strategy for dealing with that apathy and pessimism. Personally I recognise and watch the thoughts, I encourage them to come out and do what they need to do and then watch them intensely. I don't get involved with the why of it, just put them in the spotlight so they can't skulk and foster more thoughts. It's like "right you lot, let's have you out where you can be seen, you want to say something, so get on with saying it, I'm right here, right now, do your worst".
The thoughts might keep coming back, trying angles of attack, each time they get the same treatment. Occasionally a thought becomes over whelming and takes on a physical, energy form. That isn't easy to deal with, your stomach can be knotted tight, there can be waves of energy. I found that I dealt with it in the same way, like a fight you have to expect to get some blood and pain. You don't get actual physical damage but I let the waves have me, again I have encouraged them. It can feel like death, or drowning. Yeah though I walk through the valley of death I shall fear no evil
I accept who you I am. Yes, that's me, Mr Apathy.......and..... .... I'm quite happy being Mr Apathy today, tommorow I might be something else, but for today, Apathy is me and I'm fine with it.
You can also release emotions into silence, just touch on them and release them if you have enough silence built up. I prefer frontal attack, just my way. Over time the attackers pretty much gave up, they are never silenced completely, but they know that I'm no longer a victim, but a warrior and each attack increases my skill at perfecting the skills. I am open, no hiding, watching in the moment, accepting all.
Hope that is of help. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 2:07:22 PM
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hi doctorwho.
Yes I've experienced this. For me, this apathy and negativity, it's often a dying away. A dying away of old "stuff".
The most powerful method to confront this sort of thing, IMO, is gently bringing present moment awareness to these perceptions as they arise. Then note what is going on, with objective observation.
In practice, it might look something like this:
-Sad emotion of desolation arises. You note: sad emotion of desolation has arisen.
-Desire to feel differently arises. You note: desire to feel different has arisen.
-Thought arises of a worry or pessimistic attitude. You note: thought of pessimistic attitude has arisen.
It's passive observation. Note what is going on, and note any desire to change it. It will either be let go, or it won't. Either is fine. It's just useful to gently observe the experience, without identifying with it.
It's particularly important to note all your motivations for doing some sort of spiritual practice when this experience occurs. Inquire: what are my notifications for doing spiritual practice on this experience?
You'll usually find there's a desire to change the experience. Some sense that what is happening is not right, or is bad, or is unwanted. Just be aware of that. Find out what your beliefs are about the experience and why you might want to change it.
All perceptions are neutral, there's no good or bad, just stuff, happening. It's the mind which labels it otherwise.
This is a practical technique, which leads to the experience of suffering becoming increasingly light and transparent, until it is seen through and dissolved. You have to use both your mind, and your intuitive feeling sense to accurately use the technique.
Like Karl said, it also sounds like you might be overloading. If these feelings are becoming very intense, it's best to ease off, cut back on practices. I personally stop for a day or two when I get too overloaded. |
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DoctorWho
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 3:17:26 PM
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Thanks Karl and Mr Anderson. Good stuff!
I actually do what you both suggest which is being mindful of those feelings as they arise, noting them, not judging them, letting them pass etc. It's just that they've been persistent as hell lately and I've been getting a little punch drunk.
But I never considered I might be overloading a bit which makes sense. Lately, every meditation session seems to take me progressively deeper than the last. I'm like ..."This is great, I'm really making some progress". Each session feels like a new layer is being peeled back. Kind of like riding a bike down hill...I don't even have to pedal, I'm just cruising along. So, I thank you for that tip because I believe I need to tap the breaks a bit
For years I did breathing/mindfulness meditation and I am just amazed at the simplicity and effectiveness of the DM method. Overload possibility was never even on the horizon for me with mindfulness meditation. I feel like I've found such a potent and functional path here via Yogani and AYP. They key of course is knowing when to dial it back if needed.
All the best guys! Thanks!!
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 6:59:25 PM
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You're welcome. To re-affirm, what you describe, is very like what I experience when I'm overloading quite a lot. I'd describe my feeling as one of empty desolation, deadness. It's different for everyone.
I sometimes alternate DM and Mindfulness, or resting in choiceless awareness, using the latter forms when DM is causing overload, but I don't want to miss having at least some kind of practice. Then sometimes I simply have to stop altogether. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 11:17:16 PM
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| Yes quit practices and lots of grounding like digging or pulling weeds or high intensity exercise (gets you out of breath a little). |
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BenQuiet
Thailand
12 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2012 : 01:12:55 AM
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Hi All,
I've just found the site and will be getting involved, especially since I have no desire to interact with mundane thinking people.
We all end up going thru this depression and apathy, and as the song goes and Karl mentioned "c'mon mind throw your worst at me". That's 'courage' as Nisargadatta would say.
Eckhart Tolle was in severe depression before he popped out of the equation, as a number of others have. A more recent example is Jeff Foster who described his state as "nihilistic". It's kind of like you just want to be done and die, but in actuality it is life living itself. Stay courageous and later comes pure joy and happiness of living life with lots of laughter. Just watch a clip of Paul Henderson or Jackie O'Keefe - what pure heart laughs.
Be awareness and watch the 'stuff' come up - once it's seen it dissolves slowly but surely. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2012 : 03:34:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
lots of grounding like digging or pulling weeds
What? In your garden I suppose  
I recommend wall paper stripping, wall paper hanging and a bit of gloss work.....and I know just the room that will help your rehabilitation |
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DoctorWho
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2012 : 03:48:10 AM
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Etherfish, the universe must be using you as a medium to send me messages... I actually do have a severe weed problem to take care of in my back yard!
It seems I have both some literal and figurative landscaping to take care of. God's sense of irony is not lost on me. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2012 : 05:22:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by DoctorWho
Etherfish, the universe must be using you as a medium to send me messages... I actually do have a severe weed problem to take care of in my back yard!
Don't use Veet or those wax strips  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2012 : 6:41:48 PM
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Another alternative to the arrival of negative thoughts/feelings is directing them to your chosen ideal. In other words, if you feel angry at yourself, or your job, or your twin brother (in my case), you can kind of catch the feeling or thought-stream in mid-flow, and feed it to a new object.
I kind of think of it like "feeding stillness". You have some fresh energy to give to stillness, who is hungry for bhakti. Stillness wants to use ALL of your energy, not just the fluffy cotton candy.
Personally, it's not sufficient for me simply to observe or witness very strong negative feelings--I have to direct them to my chosen ideal--even hating, vowing to kill or destroy my Beloved. Weird as it sounds, it has been working for me in the past year, and if you think about--better to direct the negative energy to the Immortal, Eternal, God-consciousness, than to your poor little ego or another innocent person/entity/institution.
The awareness/observation approach is a bit more passive, whereas the directing/channelling method is maybe a bit more proactive.
You can't hurt the Unshakable ONE, you can't get entangled with Its neuroses or baggage or karma (since It has none), and It will only respond to your gestures and effort with one thing: LOVE.
Godspeed.  |
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BenQuiet
Thailand
12 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2012 : 9:59:09 PM
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Hi,
Bodhi Tree that is pretty wild - never heard that before. To redirect makes perfect sense. I would like to say to everyone "to each his/her own" whatever works for you. We are all the same, but totally unique as a snow flake. Everyone reading on this site is "in the tiger's mouth", keep persevering, all THAT is will never give up on you.
The longer one stays with whichever practice suits them eventually there are fewer and fewer negative emotions, and when anger arises it is seen within seconds and once it is seen it dissipates before any negative responses can affect relationships etc...
Baraka Bashad |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2012 : 11:05:51 PM
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Well, I definitely can't claim authorship for that technique. I derived it from Mr. Yogani himself--go figure! I'm sure he woudn't claim authorship either--I think it's just an old-school practice of full immersion in spiritual practice and living.
This lesson is bad-ass :
Transforming Emotional Energy for Enlightenment
http://www.aypsite.org/340.html
"Faint heart never won fair lady." [Divine Lady, that is...] |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2012 : 01:49:34 AM
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quote:
Personally, it's not sufficient for me simply to observe or witness very strong negative feelings--I have to direct them to my chosen ideal--
nice post Bodhi Tree...lately over here too i am surrendering ALL of it to my chosen ideal....i just mentally say: well all these problems,finding solutions for them,my negative feelings etc....ALL of it is not mine...i give them back to You (the ishta) please deal with them as you like, let it unfold as You want not like i want ...whatever You decide i will accept |
Edited by - maheswari on Apr 25 2012 06:42:32 AM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2012 : 02:21:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
Personally, it's not sufficient for me simply to observe or witness very strong negative feelings--I have to direct them to my chosen ideal--
nice post Bodhi Tree...lately over here too i am surrendering ALL of it to my chosen ideal....i just mentally say: well all these problems,finding solutions for them,my negative feelings etc....ALL of it is not mine...i give them back to You (the ishta) please deal with them as you like, let it unfold as You want not like i want ...whatever You decide i will accept
Yep, once again our paths parallel... a lot of that happening over here lately, too! |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2012 : 02:30:18 AM
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quote:
Yep, once again our paths parallel... a lot of that happening over here lately, too!
hahaha dear Radharani indeed everyday we discover more similiraties between us in the unfoldment of "our" so called life...
much Love to you |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2012 : 06:45:29 AM
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what a coincidence!!!..just now i discovered that the next lesson i have to translate into arabic is lesson 340
the flow working accurately as always |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2012 : 5:59:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
what a coincidence!!!..just now i discovered that the next lesson i have to translate into arabic is lesson 340
the flow working accurately as always
Sweet! Synchronicity! |
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Heartsoflove
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2012 : 12:58:44 PM
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| For me, it is like dying inside. I won't bore you with my story, but I am coming out of a forty year preoccupation and devotion to atheism and, trust me, trying to let go of that model is really, really tough. All I can do at this point is to try and ride it out with an underlying hope that 'this too shall pass.' I've spent the last forty years negating anything that even resembled, smelled of, look liked, smacked of or suggested something from the other side; so my path seems, at times, bleak and filled with all sorts of pitfalls and negativity. Thank you.....HOL |
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DoctorWho
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2012 : 12:09:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Heartoflove
For me, it is like dying inside. I won't bore you with my story, but I am coming out of a forty year preoccupation and devotion to atheism and, trust me, trying to let go of that model is really, really tough. All I can do at this point is to try and ride it out with an underlying hope that 'this too shall pass.' I've spent the last forty years negating anything that even resembled, smelled of, look liked, smacked of or suggested something from the other side; so my path seems, at times, bleak and filled with all sorts of pitfalls and negativity. Thank you.....HOL
Hello Heartoflove and WELCOME,
Your story actually sounds quite fascinating! Anytime you would like to share some of the details of your journey, please feel free. It sounds anything but boring. I haven't been here long but you will find many interested, compassionate, supportive and respectful people in this community...some newbies... some with deep insight (Yogani for starters)... and lots of us stumbling along in the middle somewhere You're in good company. Welcome to the Sangha!
Over the years with the advent of the so-called new atheists (Hitchens and the like)... I became even more puzzled by atheists... and yet respect their position greatly.
Puzzled... by their belief that life and consciousness are nothing more than just a freak, random combination of chemicals.
Respect...in the dogged refusal to blindly accept and believe the all but lifeless offerings/interpretation of institutionalized religion. Let's face it...the average modern day person cannot find much to hang his/her hat on when it comes to the literalist characterization of scriptures.
I always felt atheists were somehow closer to wanting to understand than the run of the mill, dogmatic unthinking believer. *I am of course just generalizing here.
My symptoms of negativity and apathy (which has since passed with a little self-pacing) arose due to purification resulting from the newness of this type of meditation. I would guess (and please correct me if I'm wrong ) that someone like yourself... who is undergoing what seems to be a whole new paradigm of thinking... would be experiencing something akin to heavy grief. Almost like losing someone close to you. I would love to hear more from you if you care to share.
Your journey is special. Never doubt...it takes courage to undertake a spiritual path and perseverance to seek those answers. Trust yourself! You must feel like a stranger in a strange land certainly...but the fact that you've found yourself here shows you have the spirit of enlightenment.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2012 : 04:06:28 AM
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Interesting. I was also a confirmed Atheist. If it had the word God or Jesus attached it went straight into the rubbish bin. I was quite happy to accept that this was a support for some people, but something I did not need.
How strange to find God while wearing God proof armour. To find God was inside all along. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2012 : 05:03:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Heartoflove
For me, it is like dying inside. I won't bore you with my story, but I am coming out of a forty year preoccupation and devotion to atheism and, trust me, trying to let go of that model is really, really tough. All I can do at this point is to try and ride it out with an underlying hope that 'this too shall pass.' I've spent the last forty years negating anything that even resembled, smelled of, look liked, smacked of or suggested something from the other side; so my path seems, at times, bleak and filled with all sorts of pitfalls and negativity. Thank you.....HOL
welcome!! what an interesting situation to be in.
I have had sympathy for the atheistic point of view, especially in my darker moments. When my mom, a saintly believer, was dying a protracted and horrible death from diabetes a few years ago, I considered atheism; in fact, I threatened the Lord with it, taunting Him. But it was really silly, kind of like if you had a fight with your best friend and then decided to act like they don't exist, because obviously they still do... Which, of course, is completely the opposite of your own experience. I also share atheism's disdain of mainstream religion.
In any case, I wish you all the best, and you will be at home here among very open-minded people of various pursuasions. Please continue to share your thoughts with us. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2012 : 05:04:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Interesting. I was also a confirmed Atheist. If it had the word God or Jesus attached it went straight into the rubbish bin. I was quite happy to accept that this was a support for some people, but something I did not need.
How strange to find God while wearing God proof armour. To find God was inside all along.
that is really cool, karl.
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Feelings of apathy and negativity.
