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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
 Posted - May 17 2006 : 04:45:18 AM
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@bewell: would you say the same thing the other way round:
"If you are doing your meditation, and thoughts of some wrong that has been done to you ..." ?
Be well ;-)
Wolfgang
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2006 : 08:21:52 AM
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Wolfgang wrote:
"If you are doing your meditation, and thoughts of some wrong that has been done to you ..." ?
I know you weren't talking to me, but here's what I think:
Yes, for your own sake it is good to resolve such an issue. But it doesn't involve the other person in this case, because if you go out and get revenge, it won't make you feel any better if you're a spiritual person. If it is an aquaintance, telling them how you feel makes you feel better. but business situations are different.
If you can forgive them, it will make you feel better. You don't have to forget, just forgive. How is that done? By putting the situation in a different perspective. If you make the decision with conviction to forgive them, then if you are able to change your perception to much bigger and more important things you will feel better. I don't know your situation, but in my life I might see someone a lot worse off than me like people starving and under political repression, or a woman going in for surgery who had aids and was brought in by prison guards, or a man who tried to hop a moving train and his arm was ripped off, or I have friends who have lost their spouses in accidents, etc etc. just find other people in bad situations and concentrate on having compassion, and your own situation will seem unimportant. But you have to want to forgive first. |
Edited by - Etherfish on May 17 2006 08:23:20 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2006 : 09:04:12 AM
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I am with Ether on this.. your have to forgive and move on. Holding on to a grudge just pulls you back..
Another thing Bewell... and I don't think you meant it the way you wrote it..
"A paraphrase might be "If you are doing your meditation, and thoughts of some wrong you have done intrudes on your practice, first remedy the wrong, then return to meditation."
however.. it is a good opportunity to re-visit a lesson on restlessness during meditation..
If a feeling of wrong does intrude you during meditation.. you gently push that thought away and go back to the mantra.. continue with your meditation.. If you do this.. meditation will take care of the feeling you have.. it will dissolve it like any other obstructions in the nervous system.. and you will find it easier to go back to the situation during your regular day and fix it..
If the feeling is too strong..
quote:
Lesson15 :If it interferes with the easy process of meditation, then
pause with the mantra and allow the attention to be drawn to the
physical discomfort. Just be with it for a while. Usually, this will
dissolve the discomfort naturally. Once it does, go back to the
mantra and continue your meditation until your time is up.
You can check this lesson http://www.aypsite.org/15.html
but really .. all of the meditation lessons will tell you the same thing.. like a broken record
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2006 : 7:51:28 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Wolfgang
@bewell: would you say the same thing the other way round:
"If you are doing your meditation, and thoughts of some wrong that has been done to you ..." ?
Wolfgang,
On wrongs done to us, from a Jesus angle, recall the Lord's prayer, "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." In other words, forgiving others is a way to make ourselves receptive God's forgivness.
I'm cruious, do you feel empathy for the seller? You see that your exercise of your right to cancel the contract cost him money and time. Have you tried to feel for him how he might feel about that loss. Sometimes, in "forgivness," it helps to see it from the other's point of view. |
Edited by - bewell on May 17 2006 8:06:21 PM |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2006 : 9:18:34 PM
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Thank you bewell,
your comment is helpful.
Do I feel empathy ? Not in the sense, that I am cuddling him,
saying to him "It's ok, you are doing good, I love You"
The sellers loss must be very small, I guess it is some 50 cents.
Probably less: the sale was an multi-article-auction (meaning
the seller had in this case a total of 79 identical articles
for sale).
Am I able to forgive ? Of course, but if he keeps beating me
I have to defend myself.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2006 : 08:39:53 AM
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I guess it is some 50 cents.
Wolfgang,
That is cheap! Here is a sample of an apology letter I might send to the seller.
Dear Sir,
I truly regret the trouble and expanse the cancellation of my order caused for you. Is there something I could do to settle this problem to your satisfaction, without buying the product, which I no longer need? I recall, in our earlier conversation, your mentioned needing to cover you eBay costs. I was thinking, maybe, if you would let me know what your eBay costs are, I'd be more than willing to cover that amount for you.
If he says it is costing him 50 cents, send him double that.
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Edited by - bewell on May 18 2006 08:53:04 AM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2006 : 7:55:30 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by bewell
"I truly regret the trouble and expanse the cancellation of my order caused for you."
I wrote that this morning, and as I reflected on it during the day, it struck me as fake. For such a note to work it would have to be true.
And as for my Christianity, a lot of it is veneer. It is about the small things, little gestures. It is interesting to me how quickly I came up with saying from Jesus. But have I ever really "turned the other cheek?" I think not. I just try to get along with people and an oppressor has never smacked me in the face. If what happened to you had happened to me, I would not consider that a smack in the face or an injustice. I would look at it as a misunderstanding between equals, and unfortunate one for both of us.
The real injustice is between rich and poor, the haves and the have-nots. Since I count myself among the haves, I figure, when the just ideal revolution comes, when injustice is banished, I'll have to give up a lot of privilages. So, if push comes to shove, I hope I will hold my money lightly. But will I?
I just sold a house for what I thought was break-even because I wanted to buyer to have the best deal possible, but due to some miscalculation, I realized later, I lost a thousand dollars. Oops. The buyer is happy, and is a new neighbor, so I'm pleased. I won't mention to anyone, but my wife, that I sold it at cost. My wife doesn't mind either.
I guess this reminds me of how the money discussion group ended. The one with the cofacilitator of the meditation group. I more or less "put my cards on the table," I expressed where I'm at with money, and it was clear that we were playing a different game.
Speaking of her, she just dropped by. She's doing well lately, glad to have “encouraging friends.” Oh well, I’m rambling. Enough said, I guess.
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Edited by - bewell on May 19 2006 02:36:43 AM |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 01:34:20 AM
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Wolfgang,
I don't understand ebay, or the issue. But one thing is clear in yoga from the beginning. One yama in the first step of Ashtang Yoga is 'Ahimsa' or non-violence. And it very clearly does not mean turning the other cheek. It means that you are not violent with attachment. If anyone must be corrected for his own good, it must be done whatever it involves. Just as you'd administer a few whacks to a child to prevent him or her from going the wrong way, but only in order to correct a behaviour... not assuage your ego. The only, and the most difficult thing to ensure here, is that you're not putting salve on your bruised ego by taking any measure that to others may seem like retaliation.
There is the story of two Samurais fighting on the orders of their emperor. The better one soon managed to bring the weaker one down. Just as he was about to kill him, the weaker one leaned forward and spat in his face. The stronger one at once dropped his sword and left the arena, without concluding his victory as was the practice. Why? Because his anger was aroused, and he knew that he'd be finshing him off in anger (attachment), rather than because of his dharma. (detachment)
To be attached or detached is the only choice we're supposed to have once in the human form. Does this answer from the point of view of yoga? And would it be possible to apply it in future cases where one is in a similar situation? (Teach a lesson if you're cool, back off if you're het up, because in the latter situation, you would be creating negative karma for yourself, and divine retribution is far more powerful and effective than anything you can think of, if you are looking for justice. |
Edited by - sadhak on May 28 2006 06:58:56 AM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 11:55:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by meg
I sit still for a moment and determine what, or who, has been offended. If it's my ego, then I let the offense go.* If it's my Self, I address it. It's almost never the latter, btw. The Self is rarely offended.
The self/silence is never offended. Only ego/mind can be offended. Instances where an offense (or disruption or injury) seem not to occur in ego mind are gifts from god - the perfect points of self inquiry.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1137 |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on May 28 2006 11:55:45 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 3:28:56 PM
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"I guess it is some 50 cents."
That may be way off. If the seller would have made $20 from the sale, and your bid kept somebody else from buying the item, then his loss would be $20.50 or the equivalent euros.
If he makes $100. an hour on ebay, and it takes him a couple hours to straighten this out. . . you get the idea. Different people are worth different amounts of money per hour, so it's not the loss you may perceive as a buyer. That's why it's important to just follow ebay rules, and not try to think "logically" or "right and wrong" because you can lose much more in the long run.
For instance, you could take it to court, and win your money back. but your cost would be loss of Ebay privileges, and several thousand euros for lawyer fees. So if it's worth that to feel that you're right, then you can prove it. Personally, I will go to great lengths to NOT go to court and waste hundreds of hours in boredom.
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 07:24:59 AM
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@Etherfish: I am sorry to say, you really got it screwed up.
The facts are: this sale was a multi-arcticle sale and the seller
had 79 of the same articles for sale. The auction is closed now
and it can be seen that 59 articles are still available.
So he sold 20 pieces, which means somebody else could still have
made a bid. My bid had no influence and did not hinder anybody
buying this stuff.
My cancellation of the sale actually saved him the trouble of
sending the goods. According to his own business rules (and
according to german law), the buyer has the right to cancel
the contract which I did.
For reasons unknown to me the seller kept pressing charges
that I should pay for the goods. He complained to Ebay which
resulted in a warning from Ebay to me.
I informed Ebay that I rightfully cancelled the contract
and asked Ebay to withdraw the issued warning, which they
meanwhile actually did (they wrote to me that the warning
is withdrawn).
Concerning the money collecting company: I proved to them,
that I rightfully cancelled the contract and since then
I have not heard from them anymore.
I myself will definitely not start a court case. If anybody
wants to start a court case, it will be them. If they start
it, I will respond. But then, turning the other cheek will
not mean to me, to appear in front of the court like a dumb
peaceful lamb, ready for being slaughtered and accepting
anything they say.
Anyway, I don't know why you are rambling along a case
which so far for me is settled long ago.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 07:32:14 AM
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Sorry Wolfgang, I did misunderstand. I thought you were trying to hold to what's right against Ebay policies.
I missed the part where the seller's own policy said you could cancel also.
I'm glad everything worked out for the best! |
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Turn the other cheek - Injustice ?
