|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
 Posted - May 28 2012 : 8:58:24 PM
|
Tonight: agreed. From the discussions so far, and looking back through the posts, it seems there really wasn't one as I had imagined. Should there be, this topic is open for discussion. I found it worthwhile, and hope others did too.
Cosmic: that was better said and summarized than I ever could. |
 |
|
|
Chaz
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2012 : 10:26:12 PM
|
A lot of what's been mentioned here has been on my mind recently so I'd thought I'd join the discussion and throw in my two sense. 
First, I agree with Carson in that anything can be a drug. As I progressed with meditation I started noticing how much certain foods can impact my perception and mood. Even practices can intoxicate me in some way.
With drugs on the spiritual path, it is very much a case to case basis. It's not the intoxication that plays any role in yoga or spiritual progression, but it's how the individual integrates the experiences and insights that result from the change in consciousness. Ultimately, I believe we are all naturally driven to change and raise our consciousness. Isn't this what we do in meditation and yoga? We can go about this in many ways. The use of psychoactive substances are just one of these methods.
I can't say I've had too much direct experience with many psychoactive drugs, but I've done a lot of research due to my own fascination with psychedelics and the possible benefits from these substances. For the past couple months I've had a growing urge to try these substances to see what I can learn from them. I feel there is a lot that psychedelics have to show and teach me on my path and I intend to experiment with an open mind.
I'm a heavy marijuana user, and I've used MDMA several times in the past. Both substances have produced deeply meditative and spiritual states while under their influence. I've only had one psychedelic experience while on mushrooms and for me it wasn't the breakthrough many have had and I admittedly sought, but it was significantly insightful and I learned a lot about myself and things around me. All of the mentioned substances have one thing in common on my spiritual path in that they opened me up more to experience myself.
Such substances have the ability to reveal to you WHAT IS ALREADY THERE.
The mistake is thinking drugs will significantly change anything for you, so to speak. Of course they may alter chemical balances in the brain, and alter our physical and mental perception, but when our high is over we are still the same, for better or worse. I don't think any substance is responsible for spiritual experience or progression, but rather how we deal with and integrate the change of consciousness and resulting impressions.
It was Marijuana that led me to my direct spiritual path, and ever since it seemed to be my guide. My first time smoking I was only 14, and I was quite a worry wart in my awkward teen phase. My first few times getting high showed me how relaxed, happy, and carefree I could be. I developed the habit of trying to change from being the high-strung, worrisome person I was when I wasn't high by getting high as often as I could. Not much later after that I realized the weed wasn't changing a damn thing about me, in fact my anxiety was getting worse (I was still inexperienced and wasn't aware of marijuana anxiety either). I literally thought something was really wrong with me, I wanted so bad to be like all my friends who got high and only laughed, never worried about a damn thing like how I felt those first few times high. In my search for a fix I re-stumbled upon meditation and that's when the path hit off. Marijuana has played a role on my spiritual path ever since, and I can't say it has been in any way detrimental, and I will not say it has been a shortcut of any sort, but it has been a VERY revealing and insightful substance on my path that has taught me many things.
MDMA hasn't played as significant a role as Marijuana has on my spiritual path, mainly because I have only done it on several occasions and don't find it as appealing anymore, specifically because of the physical side effects. But, I can't deny it has opened my heart up to the moment and shown me the magnitude of love I truly have for myself and the world. None of that was ever the result of MDMA, but rather what being high on MDMA revealed to me.
I came to learn that ultimately all insights during any high, all mental states and changes in consciousness, though facilitated by the substance, were still a product of the mind, and could be experienced by the mind itself. Ultimately the change will come from within no matter what. This is where my respect lies in certain substances; their ability to lift certain mind barriers so you are revealed to a greater part of yourself that was always there but just hidden in your normal everyday consciousness. This is the only possible shortcut drugs can provide. Again, this is essentially what happens when we change our consciousness through any means, including yoga and meditation. Drugs just happen to be a more aggressive and far less permanent method. The barriers go back up soon enough and the best we can do is simply integrate the experience on our path.
I don't think that just because a spiritual experience is drug induced that that should take away any authenticity of the experience or further experiences on the spiritual path. Being drug-free in my own opinion does not mean any spiritual phenomena experienced in comparison to one who has tried many drugs is any more valid. The experiences are very real to the ones experiencing them, and for me that would be all that matters so who am I to call them fraud. Isn't it strange that some of the most powerful and potent mind-altering plants and herbs grow in VERY close proximity to some of the most spiritual people on Earth? Did those plants make the surrounding people so spiritual? Or was it the people's high spiritual energy that attracted those plants to them? One interesting thing about these people is most of them regarded the psychoactive plants and herbs they used in spiritual rituals as teachers or guardians, with their own spirit and wisdom to share. Perhaps nature herself was the original guru in this way.
Much love everyone. 
|
Edited by - Chaz on May 28 2012 11:14:37 PM |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2012 : 12:55:11 PM
|
It never ceases to amaze me how inspiration and clarity can often be stimulated by hard physical labor. I'm right now in the middle of deconstructing and reconstructing a deck in my backyard, and as I was shoveling some gravel in-between the joists I had an analogy with regards to this topic suddenly come to mind.
I believe I have said this before, either in this topic or in another like it, but to me, the ability for psychedelic use to be helpful on one's path comes down to intention. The analogy that came to mind was from the Bible. In the Old Testament there is the story of Abraham who is commanded by God to kill his son Isaac. In most people's minds I believe that killing one's own son, for any reason, would not be something "beneficial" and especially not something "godly" or divinely inspired. But due to Abraham's bhakti for God he was willing to do whatever it took to deepen his relationship with Him, even being willing to kill his own offspring.
Personally, I see psychedelic use in the same way. It is something that is not "fun" or desired, but if Life commands it, then I must obey the call. Luckily for me the call doesn't come often anymore (hasn't come in well over a year now) but everytime it has in the past, it has been helpful in one way or another, no matter how challenging the trip was. Does that mean this is how it works for anyone other than myself? No. But I think it is important to remain open minded as to what is required for another to come to know themselves in a deeper way. This lesson is continually driven home whenever I spend time with my extended family. My whole family chooses the "Christian" path as their way to connect to the Divine. Does the Christian path work for me? No. Does it work for them? They say it does. And even if it didn't, who am I to try and alter their path or tell them it is wrong?
Anyway, just thought I would throw this out there.
Love!
Carson 
|
|
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2012 : 1:13:29 PM
|
|
|
|
|
tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2012 : 1:16:56 PM
|
Wow Carson... great way to put it!
I feel the same way. Cannabis and psilocybin don't bring me pleasurable or meaningful experiences free of pain or hard work.
In fact, it's quite the opposite. I have to work very hard to derive satisfaction from the use of these substances, or indeed to find any pleasure in them at all.
And indeed, sometimes I am quite clearly called to use these plants, and it's never something that I would prefer to do.
Interesting to hear that we have similar experience in this regard. |
|
|
|
Robertnnd
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - Mar 21 2013 : 01:46:26 AM
|
Well I basically do not see, the proof that people are trying to successfully pass off a drug-centered quick way to freedom in position of conventional yogic methods. Where is the proof that this activity exists? I think it's undeniable that intoxicating medication have performed a part in yoga exercises for many.
Moderator note: non yoga related link removed. |
Edited by - AYPforum on Mar 25 2013 04:45:53 AM |
|
|
|
AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 11:51:23 AM
|
Robertnnd, what you are stating is the very evidence you seek: "I think it's undeniable that intoxicating medication have performed a part in yoga exercises for many" [emphases mine].
The original post proposes a critical look on the role of psychoactive drug use with respect to yoga practice, and more specifically whether such substances are necessary, beneficial, or detrimental. Your perspective suggests that they do, which implies they are either necessary or beneficial, and for 'many people.'
'Conventional yogic methods' I think we agree are harder to define, since based on the contributions in this topic so far, there are some that do or have at one point made use of substances. More importantly, those methods have, to my knowledge, not been passed down or integrated alongside yogic practice in general.
Additional evidence more specifically to "trying to successfully pass off a drug-centered quick way to freedom in position of conventional yogic methods" is the very fact that perspectives are casually mentioned with the purpose of giving the impression that yoga and drugs are 'naturally' interrelated, which in my opinion can be damaging to the mainstream reputation of yoga practice, and to newcomers who are trying to establish any sort of foothold towards personal transformation.
Thank you for the contributions so far. |
|
|
|
JosephUK
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2013 : 2:35:18 PM
|
this has transformed into a topic i am beginning to understand. This form of what i would call identity crisis where the mind is gradually losing its sense of "I" has plagued me for the past 7 months at least.
I have been meditating and searching for the I for that time whilst dissolving what i had previously called i with my devotion. Thus i was left with little direction and my sense of self was very weak.
For me this came at a time of deep cleansing ande purification when my guru shook my hand and literally chopped my ego in half and then told me to practice mindfulness instead of becoming a monk.
I was shot.
But i've stopped that search now, i have found the kernel of my physical psycho spiritual avatar and it can say "I am" my mantra so i'm chuffed.
As for drugs as to compared with the natural release of chemicals after meditation and pranayama, my buddhist nun friend has said that anyone who has taken hallucinogens can often have such wonderful experiences that once they come down the mind is unable to accept the lack and tightens and creates a lot of stubborn karma.
i have heard of yogis in India smoking weed in order to practice strengthening the minds resistance to mind altering states. but this is only preparation for far stronger and long lasting states of high which thus replace easily the minds habit of being high on cannabis.
On the other hand i have heard a few accounts of people using drugs who had a spontaneous awakening (of kundalini) however due to a lack of spiritual insight into what these drugs can do they have become mentally unwell.
I think it is an ancient practice both to cultivate the physiology of an enlightened being and to imitate it.
In the western world we can see the medical evidence and judge for ourselves.
I think there is a quote from the bible saying something along the lines of don't look back or you shall turn to a grain of salt. For me in this context it means if your going to get high make sure you stay there, otherwise there will be negative consequences such as addiction.
thats my penny worth.
joe :)
p.s. Yoganis lessons on world transformation and increased sensitivity are very inspiring  |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Ecstatic conductivity, Authenticity, Psychoactives
