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Kunsang
7 Posts |
 Posted - May 08 2006 : 5:30:39 PM
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Hi,
Thank you for this site. I bought the book after reading some initial lessons here and have drawn major benefit from it. I don't however practice Yogani's mantra meditation (even though I have tried it a couple of times) and only occasionally do pranayama. I do mainly buddhist meditation on the breath, but have a strong practice with a lot of other elements in it too. I have been experimenting with tantra for a good while before coming to this place, where it all seems to come together.
My symptom is simple to describe - whenever my mind becomes calm, breathing deeply will throw me straight into orgasmic convulsions. There's no urge to come, yet I shake and undulate as if I were shooting my load. I will normally feel an intense warmth well up in my body at the same time, especially in the lower spine and in my limbs. This is very pleasant and I don't in any way feel out of balance or shaken by it. It does tend to take some of my focus away from the meditation though, it is very sexual. To be frank, I'm not worried in the least about this, but would still like to get some insightful feedback on the mechanics of what is happening to me. It's just a strange experience; sometimes at work, when I am relaxed and focused, I will start shaking in my chair as if I were having sex. Could be amusing the day someone sees me.
Anyway, how normal is this experience?
Thanks for listening
Kunsang |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2006 : 6:51:29 PM
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Totally normal. Also feels like laughing, crying, shivering. Something about that diaphragmatic oscillation is deeply baked in with all this. With practices (especially pranayama...I highly recommend Yogani's new book on spinal breathing), you'll learn to take it up, up, up (all energy is generic; it only feels sexual when it's centered "down there"). You can also read the tantra lessons online here on this site for more info. Experimenting with tantra is ok when you're poking around, but you're boiling over, and it's time to really understand this stuff. Fortunately, you have a free source of info.
Be content; "good things are happening" as they say. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2006 : 9:09:23 PM
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I agree with Jim's comments. It sounds like what happens to me often... like earlier this evening when I was doing "spinal breathing." I don't necessarily shake bodily any more or get an erection, so others don’t notice the movement of genital muscles when it happens during group meditation.
I notice the energy that the genital movement generates. The energy rushes/flows up my spine to my head and especially my eyebrow center.
It does not interfere with my inner silence, in fact, it promotes inner silence, it clears the mind, it promotes detachment from the stream of thought and it promotes awareness of witness consciousness – the ability to observe this energy arousal from a tranquil vantage point.
Yogani’s teachings on silence and conductivity have been a big help in conceptualizing what is happening and inspiring regular mediation practice. |
Edited by - bewell on May 09 2006 08:55:16 AM |
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Kunsang
7 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2006 : 6:03:50 PM
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Hi guys, thanks for the advice. Seems very solid!
I'd like to point out that I've received skillful guidance of tantra through David Deida's writing plus other reliable sources (including buddhist tantra) before I came here. One of the most powerful practices I've been using for the last six months or so (in addition to tantric masturbation) is the taoist microcosmic orbit - breathing down the front and up the back. This is not something that I only do in focused practice, every breath I take now effortlessly moves along this path. I think this is definitely helping me a lot with balancing out these strong energies. I am under the impression that the spinal breathing method is something of an alternative practice to the microcosmic orbit, but more powerful. For this reason, it would seem that it is inadvisable to use it throughout the day in the fashion that I use my microcosmic orbit breathing. Is this accurate?
I'm also intrigued by your mention of diaphragmatic oscillation, Jim, as that seems to be an increasingy relevant topic for me. The freer my diaphragm becomes, the "looser" it gets, the more it starts oscillating like you describe. It somehow seems to be related to a strong, healthy flow of energy. Mental clarity, free flow of warm energies, diaphragmatic oscillations - they all seem to go together.
Maybe I should experiment with adding pranayama at the start of my own meditation practice for a month or so to see? You guys seem to be in favour of the practice. I'd just like to mention that I'm still not quite comfortable with the I am meditation and doubt that I will ever start using it as my main practice. The sensations, the energy patterns, seem very different with this meditation as opposed to my breathing meditation. I seem to stabilize and warm up when using breathing meditation whereas the I am meditation opens me up to the outer world and brings cool energies (after trying it for a couple of days, my limbs felt like antennas picking up energy from the outside world. I was not completely comfortable with the sensation). Male energies seem to be dominant in my breathing meditation, female energies with the I am meditation. Could it be possible to find a balance here?
Kunsang |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2006 : 6:17:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kunsang
I am under the impression that the spinal breathing method is something of an alternative practice to the microcosmic orbit, but more powerful. For this reason, it would seem that it is inadvisable to use it throughout the day in the fashion that I use my microcosmic orbit breathing. Is this accurate?
More or less powerful, I can't promise. But right: don't do both simultaneously. That's a recipe for problems (practices conflict and cumulate).
I started out with microcosmic orbit and migrated to AYP. You'll find lots more info here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=500
quote:
I'm also intrigued by your mention of diaphragmatic oscillation, Jim, as that seems to be an increasingy relevant topic for me. The freer my diaphragm becomes, the "looser" it gets, the more it starts oscillating like you describe. It somehow seems to be related to a strong, healthy flow of energy. Mental clarity, free flow of warm energies, diaphragmatic oscillations - they all seem to go together.
I don't pretend to understand the mechanism, but I do know that the oscillation thing is transitory....it only happens when you hit certain new openings and flows. It seems a wholly "good" thing, as it's written about in the literature and I find it only happens upon openings, and leaves one feeling peaceful and refreshed. So I don't worry about it at all (as I learned not to sweat heart palpitations upon heart chakra opening). I have no idea what it is or how it works, but I do chuckle when scientists scratch their heads over why we shiver, laugh, or cry (they have no idea), and why all three seem to be healing. Those working on practices understand it empirically, anyway. One thing to try, btw, is to isolate that tremor, right in the diaphragm, and do a bout of gentle willed oscillation. Interesting energy practice. I don't do it anymore, but I fooled around with it in past.
quote:
I'm still not quite comfortable with the I am meditation and doubt that I will ever start using it as my main practice. The sensations, the energy patterns, seem very different with this meditation as opposed to my breathing meditation. I seem to stabilize and warm up when using breathing meditation whereas the I am meditation opens me up to the outer world and brings cool energies (after trying it for a couple of days, my limbs felt like antennas picking up energy from the outside world. I was not completely comfortable with the sensation). Male energies seem to be dominant in my breathing meditation, female energies with the I am meditation. Could it be possible to find a balance here?
well, I'll say this. Unless you drop all your other meditation, pranayama, and other energetic practices (bodywork like tai chi and asana are a different thing, you can leave them in) and just do AYP pretty much per instructions (up to and including the pranayma lesson) for a couple months, you can't get much sense of what it's about. My experience is that I'd never go back to any other practice. And Id strongly caution you not to mix and match (for reasons discussed in the thread above). But, hey, there's no reason you should take on faith from me or anyone else that this is super efficacious. If you're happy with the path you're on, stick with it. If not....AYP works beautifully (though it works best if you stay very close to the trail for a while). |
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Kunsang
7 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2006 : 6:36:32 PM
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Wow Jim, you're a quick one! Thanks for the good advice.
My main obstacle in considering new practices is that I have an extremely active mind by nature. However, through ample calm abiding meditation it becomes very quiet. I'm very sensitive to thoughts and tend to feel that they become harmful and exhausting very quickly. I generally tend to meditate between 30 and 60 minutes twice a day as this really helps my mind to slow down and focus. I have become dependent on this inner silence and absolutely loathe having an overactive mind. In the short week I experimented with a complete AYP routine, I found that the recommended length of the meditations wasn't sufficient for me and that my mind became increasingly active. I'm basically concerned that the AYP practices won't allow me to practice as much as I would like to.
How can you do retreats with this practice? It doesn't seem possible the way it's presented here... |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2006 : 7:11:46 PM
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Everything you're asking is actually answered in the lessons, and Yogani explains it better than I could.
I'd suggest reading through a bunch of lessons. If, like me, you hate reading online, buy the book (which is much easier to reead and contains lots more info). http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0976465507
This will give a lot more insight into what it's about and give you a lot more flavor, too. You sound pretty serious; I hope you'll consider taking this serious step. Even if you decide AYP isn't for you, I promise you won't have wasted your time! :)
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Kunsang
7 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2006 : 03:27:26 AM
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Hey Jim, I already have the book (as I too hate reading online). I haven't read all the lessons yet though. I just saw that the word "retreat" was listed in the index so I'll dive deeper into it now that you have given me reason to :-)
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2006 : 10:52:33 AM
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There's that, but also explanation (not in one single lesson so much as in the very fabric of the practice) of why the sort of irritation you describe requires not more but less time in meditation. And why it's not a goal to deactivate the mind in daily life.
Again, I could try to explain it myself, but Yogani does a better job. I'm refraining from doing so because his elegant simplicity is a much better match for your issues than my more scattershot verbose approach. It's just an intuition, but I have the feeling you'd get more mileage from rereading the book (which will speak to your silence) than from chatty clarification in a forum (which will speak more to your "extremely active mind"). In fact, I'm betting simply reading Yogani's words feel good to you, since they definitely serve to cultivate silence. Finally, I've found that the first time one reads AYP, there's a lot to take in and learn. The second time, you get more of a sense of the flavor, the arc, and the purpose. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on May 13 2006 10:53:28 AM |
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Orgasmic convulsions during meditation
