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Ananda
3115 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 12 2012 : 05:40:35 AM
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Recently i've been finding more and more that this business of self inquiry is about truth and sincerity with oneself and not about being peaceful or blissful or living on peak experiences all the time. This is about being true and honest to oneself. Cutting head on through everything that divides. Not letting the ego rest anywhere.
It's really peaceful here now in this coccoon am in according to dear Shanti's words but still there's division. There are thoughts still coming up and there are still judgmental thoughts also but everything is dissolving by simply watching it's mechanism without getting involved with it. There is nothing to grab on to, there should be no division because it simply feels very wrong within. Got to keep on letting and trusting the unknown.
Love,
Ananda |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2012 : 05:45:34 AM
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| genuinity and humility are essential! |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2012 : 05:53:20 AM
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Silently  |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2012 : 09:01:54 AM
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| Yes, that's also the experience here! I see that those hooked on bliss, light and peace are deluding themselves, living on the myth that it's going to be BETTER when free. It's about seeing it's all included. ALL. Also the ugly stuff. As you say, nothing to "grab on to". That's the freedom. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2012 : 12:02:52 PM
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| Thank you for your inputs dears |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 10:26:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
Recently i've been finding more and more that this business of self inquiry is about truth and sincerity with oneself and not about being peaceful or blissful or living on peak experiences all the time. This is about being true and honest to oneself. Cutting head on through everything that divides. Not letting the ego rest anywhere.
It's really peaceful here now in this cocoon am in according to dear Shanti's words but still there's division. There are thoughts still coming up and there are still judgmental thoughts also but everything is dissolving by simply watching it's mechanism without getting involved with it. There is nothing to grab on to, there should be no division because it simply feels very wrong within. Got to keep on letting and trusting the unknown.
Love,
Ananda
Hi Ananda and All,
Firstly, I would like to clarify one thing...
A few have read the word "Cocoon" in the words here and have concluded that I have used the word cocoon as somewhere we hide (I think ). The cocoon is nothing but the "dispassion phase" that Yogani talks about here:
"We call this the dispassion stage. It is the stage of being completely unruffled by anything that happens inside or outside us."
A caterpillar enters the cocoon phase and shuts itself in this phase to heal and transform into a butterfly. I see no hiding in this phase. It is a phase just as any other. It comes to us naturally when we are ready and it is to be treated like any other phase, neither get attached nor push it away. When it's time to move out of this phase it will happen. When I say I would like to move back into my cocoon, I mean I would like to be in a place where I am not ruffled by anything that happens inside or outside of me. But again, Krishna(inner guru, inner silence, whatever you want to call it) will not let this happen... the struggle that the butterfly has to go through in order to get out of the cocoon makes it's wings stronger.. but once a butterfly has left the cocoon, there is no going back into the cocoon.
Having said this, I will add to what Ananda has said.
Division, unity, peace, non-peace... these are all definitions.
Just be authentic where we are. Not get swayed by what others say, if we feel a certain thing, then it is our truth. As long as we stay open to the idea that nothing is permanent... it will all change... and as long as we dont quit our baseline practice, we will be fine. Our inner guru is guiding us through our own maze of obstructions. We are having our own experiences, and it will not match anyone else's.
When others compare us to their experiences and label us as something they think we are... that is their label... not ours. Don't get attached to those labels either and try to be something that you are not authentically experiencing. Accept what is being said, and ask your inner silence to guide you... but dont get attached to the label. This is spiritual bullying.  We have heard how kids call someone a "fool" again and again and the child becomes convinced he is a fool and believes it is the truth and becomes less confident and goes through life thinking he is a fool. Its the same thing, when someone compares you with what they have experienced or some other master maybe and labels you as that or not that, you become convinced they are right and you are not experiencing what you are.
Be authentic. If you are experiencing something, dont worry about convincing anyone that you are (sharing is good, but dont worry about convincing anyone anything  )...
But remain open to the knowing this will change.
Be ready to accept the change when it comes your way. (BTW, if you are not ready to accept the change... it does not matter.. when its time to change it will still happen, it will not be smooth that's all.. as life will be pulling you into the next phase and we will be resisting. )
Most people think when someone says "be authentic and dont try to be where you are not"... they are talking about comparing ourselves with others and trying to be something we are not. To me it also means, being where we are right now and embracing it. If we are angry, then we are angry, dont try to say "I should not be angry", or "wish I wasn't angry"... I am angry.. that's it. Next moment when we are not angry, dont go back and revisit it... and define ourselves as an angry person based on what we felt 5 min back. Don't add boundaries to who you are based on what you are now or have been in the past. That is what adds blocks. Just be authentic where you are and be open to the idea this will pass... nothing is permanent... it changes, and even though we may not see it... it all falls in place sooner or later. And when it does is exactly when it is supposed to. Nothing is ever wasted. All of what we experience is required even if we dont see it immediately.
So not only dont compare yourself with others and want to be where they are, dont compare yourself with yourself and want to be anywhere other than where you are.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 1:43:24 PM
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wow that is an amazing post...thank u Shanti
Love
m. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2012 : 02:26:52 AM
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Very wise words dear Shanti Thank you for writing and sharing your insights with us all.
namaste |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2012 : 09:41:29 AM
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Hi Ananda and all
Thanks for this topic
Everything changes, and so truth and sincerity is always called for, this never changes. It is the heart that navigates through the waters of integrity, and so to be available for the heart eye to unveil whatever it is that covers us up - inner calm is needed. That is why I meditated for so many years.
From my perspective I would also like to add that even our primary practice can change. It certainly has for me. It too can be a safe perth for the mind to land. And letting go of it can be a real struggle if one resists this fact. So don't be afraid of "quitting your primary practice" if severe imbalance calls for other actions. Nothing exists within its own box, everything is connected. Any one system is in some ways a box, and so staying true to the system to the exclusion of yourself will not work. Life may have other avenues coming up for you. I think it is important to voice this here within AYP too. Since increased sensitivity to meditation practices is a fact to be reckoned with. And Deep Meditation is the heart of AYP.
I had to stop meditating formally about a year ago now. It was not a flippant or pannicky decision, it was very sober. I needed help from a friend to see what was actually needed, I was completely opposed to stopping meditation. So my stubbornness screamed "no" for ages. But my nature is ecstatic, and not even the ocean of inner calm can change this fact for me. This is my nature. When I sit in meditation I become even more ecstatic between meditation times, and the result is that my presence ....the full heavyness of it......does not embody every cell in the body. I reside half out of the body and to me this is certainly not why I am here. I do not care how celestial this might be, if the result is that I become less ruffled by pain ("mine" or "anothers") - then I do not want to rest my head nor heart there.
So if there are others out there like me, please take to heart that if you do not engage in a formal meditation practice it does not have to mean you are not in optimal spiritual growth. That is not my experience. Our individual make-ups are just that - individual. If sitting in meditation creates prolonged imbalance regardless of how much you self pace the practice - then try something else. Do whatever works to cultivate inner calm.
Every single human being I have ever met has had at least a milliliter of ability to discern what is true or not for them. We are born with that ability. Once the ability to discern is made conscious then we know when we are acting outside integrity. For me, the ability to discern was honed by the cultivation of inner silence through meditation....it has been the most beautiful practice ever, and who knows, I might return to it one day, (but that is not known) - I was at it for 25 years.
It is also my experience after years of talking with myself and other people that the inner feeling of truth does not have to be in the state of a fully blown inner guru for it to work. Act on what is true for you (it is not as easy as it sounds) - and then the results of that will teach what not to do next. I meditated. Now I do not. Meditation may be for you. Or not. However - everybody benefits from cultivating inner silence. It is just the means that differ. As long as our heart is yearning to unveil the truth about who/what we are, and we are willing to listen to that inner wordless voice (as in acting on what we hear) we are maturing to the maximum of our capacity. There are no fast tracks outside this dynamic. Thinking that there are causes a lot of suffering. And we tend to leave where we are.
It is important that my body stays strong and that the energy pours out of my feet into the ground. I am fully resting in the body then. So I do light stretches and pilates and tai chi every day. That keeps the energy balanced so that everything is felt intimately.....everything touches the heart...... at the same time as the clarity is doing its thing.
We all speak from where we are when we share, but when we teach it is important to look properly at where "the other" is too. The ground of that looking is honesty about where we are ourselves. We take into consideration that things does indeed change. Outside our own experience too. To just have that open attitude about it all. Then spiritual bullying (which can manifest in the nicest of ways) hopefully will not happen in that interaction.
To know exactly what to say and when to say it....so that most benefit from it..... is truly an art of which I will forever be a student.
All the best,
Katrine
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2012 : 2:37:51 PM
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| And those are the words of a Master! (no sexism intended - the feminine noun has some unfortunate connotations ) |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2012 : 4:14:47 PM
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Thanks Katrine.
And yes, what Katrine says is true, if we are overloading, cutting back or stopping practices is the way to go....
But the beauty is...
Self pacing is a part of AYP ... so self pacing really is not stopping practices, it is picking one of the many things taught in AYP and is still a part of our baseline practice... it is staying conscious of what we are experiencing and being honest with what we do with respect to our practices.
This post of emc's had really brought it home for me that self pacing is not quitting practices, it is just going with the lessons.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=9161#79139
quote:
AYP practices - even in their most self-paced form, which litterally means "none", and which I have been practicing the latest x months or so - has had a tremendous effect! Hahaha! Weird, but true! Cause the "no practices" has been consciously a part of AYP practices, built on the knowledge of the AYP experiment; hard core self-pacing. And it brings results, when you know what you're doing and why! So now, meditation is possible again - with greater stability this time. Absolutely a life changing habit!
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 17 2012 : 04:19:20 AM
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 Holy cow, Shanti, the way you put it, it seems I have done a B.K. statement.
Katrine, I couldn't agree more. 
It's interesting to read, though. I'm experiencing the same thing now, as I did the other time, when "I" was seen through: The overload symptoms just seems to vanish!? I remember I wrote a post the last time that was about this "WOOOW, overload symptoms seem to attach to the "I" and as soon as "I" is seen as fake, the symptoms just go". I don't know if that's just another belief, but in that case it's working fine! I'm sure it may fluctuate, though, and surely come again, as your story seems to verify, Katrine. I just found it amazing that the same *poof* of symptoms happened this time as well. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 17 2012 : 11:49:57 AM
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Hi all
I looked up the word ecstacy the other day. One of the definitons was "to stand out" or being "outside of itself". Interesting isn`t it....
Anyway - just to make one thing clear from my sharing: My motivation to stop meditating did not come from overload. I stopped it because being blissful made me less vulnerable to the "ups and downs"....the very movement of life itself. And for me - that is not the way to go. I do not want to be unruffled while I am here. There is an extract of wisdom in everything we go through....I want to face everything very soberly, so that that extract can be gathered, eaten and then fully move on as the next moment.
A year later I can truly say that being totally exposed....without the cushion feeling of always being lulled in bliss.....has changed not only my practice...but the whole mode of living. Looking has become seeing and the deepening of contemplation that is made possible by this is very beneficial. I do not see any reason why it has to change - now. And later does not exist.
Trust in life as it is 100 %
And forever being a student is a very meaningful existence.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 17 2012 : 12:40:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Anyway - just to make one thing clear from my sharing: My motivation to stop meditating did not come from overload. I stopped it because being blissful made me less vulnerable to the "ups and downs"....the very movement of life itself.
I might be wrong dear Katrine, you are more experienced than I am but if you were feeling ok and all... The reason you mentioned is not a valid one to stop practicing. I don't know if this is a trap of the mind or not.
If you were too intoxicated or blissed out and couldn't function properly in daily life than this is a form of overloading... I am sure you tried on self pacing the way we do here at AYP first before quitting practices.
A short while back... A shift happened here, the ground itself was swept off from beneath "me". It was a timeless shift which just happened very subtly. Awareness woke up from the I and my story, I started thinking to myself wow who has been living in here... It was like waking up from a dream... To get to the most important part, thoughts start to come as to why practice now. There is no I to wake up or to practice or do anything. So why practice anymore. I spoke with Yogani about it and his answer was that this is inspiring but I should be wise in knowing that this was the fruit of practice and not the other way around... Cutting things short I still practice daily. At least for 10 minutes morning and evening. Self inquiry is kind of my automatic mode of living over here now. Overloading still happens along with everything else... Yet it's all just ok to be with it as it is. It's all melting and from times to times during the day the timeless shows itself in it's beauty and subtlity
love,
Ananda |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 17 2012 : 12:54:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I stopped it because being blissful made me less vulnerable to the "ups and downs"....the very movement of life itself. And for me - that is not the way to go. I do not want to be unruffled while I am here.
Ah, the rarified air of the mountain heights and the tiny world spread out like a model below and soon you must go back down once again. and again and again........
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Mar 17 2012 : 1:22:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
And forever being a student is a very meaningful existence.
A real master is forever a student. To forget this is to fail to attain one's mastery and to become just another Teacher.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 17 2012 : 3:00:46 PM
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Oh, sorry, Katrine. You were wrapping your posts in a lot of wording about imbalances and overload, sensitivity and how ecstatic you are etc. So it sounded very much as if you were pointing to yourself in that context.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2012 : 3:10:34 PM
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Dear Ananda and all
quote:
I might be wrong dear Katrine, you are more experienced than I am but if you were feeling ok and all... The reason you mentioned is not a valid one to stop practicing. I don't know if this is a trap of the mind or not.
Not to worry Ananda, I have not stopped practices.
My whole life is a practice, but my primary practice has changed. I used to practice meditation, now I do not. That is all.
You see - the reasons mentioned above are very very valid here. And that is all I can vouch for. I cannot speak for anothers experience if it is not my own too. So this is not a new teaching I hold up as true for anyone else. It is simply what unfolded here.
The past year has validated and confirmed that stopping meditation was a wise decision and it has brought complete sobriety with it. Letting go of experiences of bliss and sublimity and truth has brought more peace and sublimity and truth than I ever would have dreamt possible. But it is all sober and does not stand out as separate from ordinary life..... neither is it experienced in a sea of blissful silence. It is raw. And peaceful, deeply meaningful. My nervous system is still in a deep process of constant purification, that has not changed. But the energy is being eaten by the silence in ways it was not before. What radiates out from that merger is.....totally unknown to me. I cannot say one word about it. There is nothing to focus on. All I can say is that it does its thing, and all kinds of interactions benefit from it in ways much beyond my understanding. So I feel everything with intimacy and am clensing the heart in honest living as life moves it along.
quote:
If you were too intoxicated or blissed out and couldn't function properly
I was functioning just fine. But this is not about whether I felt ok, it goes much deeper than that. It is not from a text book - it is from deep inside myself. It has to do with why I am here, and only inside myself can this be known. By now I know it is foolish to go against my self - even if it means I lose the safety of knowing where I am - as in with my primary practice.
When you say:
quote:
Awareness woke up from the I and my story, I started thinking to myself wow who has been living in here... It was like waking up from a dream... To get to the most important part, thoughts start to come as to why practice now. There is no I to wake up or to practice or do anything. So why practice anymore.
I never had thoughts about stopping practices. On the contrary, my intention was then, and is now, to - by all means necessary - continue to wake up, continue to do what I must. There was a very deep resistance in me to stop meditation practice. It took a long time before the dynamic of what was happening became clear to me. I had a firm attachment to the idea that whatever happens, meditation is always it, that we self pace for whatever time is needed - "and then we come back to it". But as it happened, this has not been the case. Thanks for your caring Ananda.
I still teach Deep Meditation. It is a wonderful practice.
Emc: Don't worry, I totally get why you saw what you saw. It is all in there - and thanks for sharing yourself.
Much love,
Katrine
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2012 : 4:03:08 PM
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I understand dear, each finds his own path to walk. Thank you for writing and sharing.
Love,
Ananda |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2012 : 01:38:00 AM
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Very inspiring words Shanti & Katrine - thank you.
I have this year been struggling with overload as reported in other threads, it is better now but I walk a thin line. The thing is I struggle with self -pacing because bhakti has the whip, so I push just a little bit more when I know I should be cutting back.
Katrine - you are brave. When I think of stopping it kind of creates a mild panic inside - a No Way ! So can I conclude that in the searching and learning of non-attachment, we get deeply attached?
Sey |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2012 : 04:38:21 AM
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Hi SeySorciere
quote:
So can I conclude that in the searching and learning of non-attachment, we get deeply attached?
Words mean different things for different people. That is the trouble with words :)
We don't get attached, we already are attached. As we grow, our attachments are unveiled.
Let me say this: I never searched for non-attachment. I still don't. I have only searched for truth - in whatever way it showed itself. To the very depth of everything. And so attachment has been very important for me....my nose rubbed in the very grit. The very life itself. This is how it has worked for me. Life itself is a conglomerate of movement and rest. It is both. And beyond/running through it all - as all - is the silence......or the light if you want.
Attachment to the light is necessary. Just as necessary as attachment to our practices. How else will we have the drive to do them? But it is life itself that decides this dynamic. When attachment is healthy we exist in relative harmony with ourselves. In this meaningfullness the heart continues to open. And so truth can reveal itself exactly where we are at all times.
When attachment is unhealthy, life will move us on (as it is already doing anyway). In that transition we experience struggle. This too is part of the unveiling of truth. Nothing is outside the light. Darkness is also the light. I am stubborn and so all the transitions I have experienced were difficult. But the thing is....if this had not been so.....the willingness to move on (let go) had not been as potent. Since I am lazy too. So struggle is a good thing....it sees to it that we do what we must.
I am not allowed to stay attached to the light now.
That attachment has played itself out.
The attachment to experiences is also playing itself out.
I do not need to experience the light. My awe for the light is total. The trust in it is total.
So I do what I must because that is the only way to go for me. I do not have to wonder what to do since what needs doing is always in front of my face. I do the dishes as they are manifesting. I play the music that surfaces in the heart.
It is more narrow than the width of a hair, and sharper than the edge of a knife. The edge of it is only felt when I stumble off it. I do my best to stay on it, by allowing it to manifest the way it already is. That is all.
Good luck with your practices SeySorciere.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2012 : 05:32:08 AM
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Many times the blade is pushed into the forge and heated, to be hammered and quenched.
Practices are not separate from life, they are part of life. The mind compartmentalises and creates separation.
They are symbology, a commitment to a quest. There is no hiding in them, that's the minds play, spinning a story about cocoons and sanctuary.
It's easy to mistake the key for the open door. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2012 : 06:29:13 AM
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Hi emc and all
quote:
It's interesting to read, though. I'm experiencing the same thing now, as I did the other time, when "I" was seen through: The overload symptoms just seems to vanish!? I remember I wrote a post the last time that was about this "WOOOW, overload symptoms seem to attach to the "I" and as soon as "I" is seen as fake, the symptoms just go". I don't know if that's just another belief, but in that case it's working fine!
Yes, this is a very interesting observation.
In my experience this also has an underlying dynamic to it. For me, it was not enough to see through the "i" in the sense that one "knows" it is non existent. I also had to understand the dynamic of the personal will that sustains the feeling of "i". And that was a whole other ball game. It includes every layer - from emotions, sensations, mental images, psyche, all ones small and big "artificial" behaviorisms including the way the body presents itself, including what it radiates...you name it...and as you have pointed out, the energy itself. So that instead of being equally and quietly released from all over the physical aparatus, when the personal will rises, the energy rises with it...into the narrow, closed and self-interested sphere where there necessarily will be "walls" that keep it "hemmed in", or projected out in an imbalanced way. Hence the "overload"....it is always in reference to "containment". The more energy that comes in, the more likely it is that this imbalance will happen if one is not "prepared" for it in this way.
So staying balanced is paramount.
It speaks for itself that to let go of the personal will is impossible to do from the level of "wanting it". The will to exist as a personal self only lets itself go when there is an integrated (lived) understanding of what the consequences are of "holding on to it". And that takes time and a willingness to see what surfaces in oneself through all experiences. It takes patience and gentleness.
Luckily there is a blessed dynamic within the tool of being honest with oneself. When one is honest, and willing to bear the pain of what ones sees, then the heart stays open. And in this openness, warmth and compassion drifts up like a fragrance from deep within, and so it becomes bearable. Because love truly is unconditional. And so eventually the root patterns dissolve too.
One has to be willing to see. That is the crucial thing. And this is much easier when there is balance.
If the dynamic of simple honesty is allowed to function again and again, then slowly (or faster depending on where we are) it also will take care of the very will itself. It too dissolves then. Since this is simply the natural unfolding of it all.
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BuddhiHermit
United Kingdom
84 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2012 : 2:41:55 PM
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My favorite words "Ethics", and "Honesty".
I recognise your journey Katrine, and thanks for sharing.
This is of course, the real meaning of morality practice in Yoga, Buddhism, and Tao.
Namaste |
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Being Truthful In The Inquiry
