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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 4:54:43 PM
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| Since I started practicing DM, which has been a number of months now, I have begun to have panic attacks. I experience uncontrollable anxiety that at times makes me certain I am having a heart attack and at other times certain that I am going stark raving mad. Like I have no control over my sanity. This has happened probably four or five times since they began last summer. Today was the first time that, as soon as I came out of a near blissful meditation, when I opened my eyes I immediately went into panic mode, rapid heartbeat, shaky legs, a feeling of suffocation and fear that I was loosing my body and sanity. This lasted about five or ten minutes then I felt fine, very energetic as a matter of fact. But I'm tired of the anxiety. If I stopped meditating would it go away? Am I just one of those people who should avoid such deep meditation? Or am I not getting enough strenuous activity between meditations? Can anyone help? Thanks for listening. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 5:14:13 PM
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Are you resting immediately after meditation? You shouldn't even open your eyes, lie back in corpse pose, let your body sink into the surface. Gradually open your eyes. You need a good 5 to 10 minutes.
Cut back on the meditation to 10minutes and add some spinal breathing before meditation.
Keep cutting back and increasing the rest period.
Get some excersise to ke you grounded. Just 30 minutes walk in the park maybe some light Asanas. |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 5:43:37 PM
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| I do have a sense of what a panic attack is like from experience, but in relation to burnout and not any spiritual practices I've ever done. You have prior experience with meditation so I assume you don't force your breathing in some way inadvertently, which I imagine could incite a sense of anxiety. Have you had panic attacks or anxiety before you started DM? |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 6:01:47 PM
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Hi Stillpool 
Self-pacing is absolutely critical!!
You may find EFT useful as well for relief of the symptoms. I'll forward you the manual if you'd like to try it. If you do, PM me and I'll send it back as an attachment.
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 10:35:00 PM
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Thanks everyone.
I do rest after meditation and feel great. Today was the first time panic was waiting as soon as I opened my eyes. It's almost like a fear that control is being taken away and my life is vanishing along with my body. I never had an attack previous to meditation. I have no history of drug use or mental illness. I'm a pretty normal guy. I thought maybe my nervous system just couldn't take such stillness when coming back into activity. I've been wondering if I stopped meditating if theses symptoms would go away. |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 11:41:36 PM
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Hi Stillpool
If you think that these symptoms are caused by meditating, you could scale it back or stop and find out.
You may be a "sensitive meditator" and 20 minutes might be too long (assuming that's what you're doing). You may even need to move to a different mantra or to breath meditation if you want to meditate.
If you stop, you can always restart at a lower intensity if you want.
Have a look at this lesson on self-pacing. http://www.aypsite.org/38.html |
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yogesh
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 08:39:37 AM
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I would stop altogether, especially if you have children and having symptoms like that.
Your what is important now, focus on that |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 10:18:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stillpool
Thanks everyone.
I do rest after meditation and feel great. Today was the first time panic was waiting as soon as I opened my eyes. It's almost like a fear that control is being taken away and my life is vanishing along with my body. I never had an attack previous to meditation. I have no history of drug use or mental illness. I'm a pretty normal guy. I thought maybe my nervous system just couldn't take such stillness when coming back into activity. I've been wondering if I stopped meditating if theses symptoms would go away.
Can I ask why you are meditating?
Meditating seems to perform the action of stirring up the dust of negative thoughts and experiences. The technique is very powerful and if you are not stable enough to handle the stuff that comes up, it can be quite frightening and potentially damaging in the short term.
When I was practising therapy, one of the things needed was a thorough history of the client. We needed to know if there had been any trauma or ongoing mental problems.
These are not always apparent because the human consciousness is extremely good at glossing over important issues as a form of protection.
AYP and other meditations are self administered. We don't have the luxury of examining the history and motivation for the commencement of spiritual practice. Often it seems that it is used to escape from a stressful life. Relaxation techniques work well in these situations and it might mean that AYP ( advanced meditation), is a step too far, too fast.
My own motivation was not to cope with life, but to work on the Ego. I got rid of the real negative stuff during training, not all, but everything important. That allowed concentration on AYP as a vehicle for going a lot further, for discovery, no matter how rough it might get.
I suspect that even stopping the meditations might not put the anxieties away, they obviously need to be worked on which is why they have come to the surface. Effectively you have given the green light to dealing with something and it is presented in glorious technololor for the work to begin. In real terms you can cope with it, it is only the fear that you can't that makes things worse. When you have a busy life and responsibilities, adding that on can be difficult.
It's interesting you should mention drugs because there are some similarities. I have a cousin who had anxiety attacks after smoking dope for the first time. She does have past issues and I think that drugs and meditation bring these to the surface. If you are not equipped to deal with them they can become over whelming and very intense.
I would probably stop meditation, do some relaxation techniques, take up some moderate excersise like 30 minutes walking. See how it goes. Get enough grounding to get things in perspective before fluffing up the dust again.
Your experience is not uncommon, despite the work I have done on myself, one night I woke with such an intense fear I thought I would die. I allowed that fear to do its worst and it passed through me and dissipated. I'm not suggesting you do that, but it does show that this is a powerful technique and sometimes things come to the surface which are extremely strong. Being prepared to surrender to these emotions/energies is a big step.
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Edited by - karl on Feb 13 2012 10:22:26 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 11:54:03 AM
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Also, talking about your thoughts, be careful what you indulge in. Sometimes we have bad thought habits, and when the thought of fear comes up, we grab onto it and "indulge" in it, or concentrate on it. Of course this is going to amplify the feeling. So if you have a choice, don't concentrate on thoughts of fear.
Even when thoughts of fear are warranted, such as standing on a cliff, the fear is meant to make you more aware, and consider actions to take, like grabbing onto something. Just indulging in fear itself is not good for survival. So, investigate what the fear is about, and either shut it down immediately (you have a small window of opportunity to do this; something like 30 seconds), or experience the feeling fully, or take action to secure yourself against the fear.
How do you secure yourself? If the fear is death, do something known to make you live longer, like exercise.
Exercise helps to get rid of many bad mental feelings, just from increased circulation of prana (or maybe oxygen). |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 3:48:19 PM
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quote:
I would stop altogether, especially if you have children and having symptoms like that.
Your what is important now, focus on that
as far as i know many ayp practitioners have kids and none of those kids complained   ...on the contrary they are blossoming positively affected by the positive energy of their parents...lucky kids! |
Edited by - maheswari on Feb 13 2012 3:49:39 PM |
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yogesh
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 5:35:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
I would stop altogether, especially if you have children and having symptoms like that.
Your what is important now, focus on that
as far as i know many ayp practitioners have kids and none of those kids complained ...on the contrary they are blossoming positively affected by the positive energy of their parents...lucky kids!
I think if people are getting bad reactions with anger and stuff or worse like Stillpool, it would be a consideration to protect children from such spillover.
I personally found myself being angry and nasty to my daughter like never before, so I'm glad you find it amusing, whatever.
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 10:49:22 PM
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Stillpool,
I've been through panic disorder, and I count meditation as more of a solution than a cause. When I was getting panic attacks, they could happen at any time, even in the middle of peaceful sleep. Meditation increases awareness, which allows you to observe what is happening during a panic attack. When you're able to observe it impartially, and fully understand it, then you can begin to choose not to have the panic attacks. To put it shortly, you are doing something to "feed" the attack, like Etherfish said. Be present during the attacks, learn to stop feeding into that fear, and the attacks will gradually stop.
My guess is that it's unlikely meditation is causing the attacks. But you would know best, and certainly nobody here on the forum can rule it out. If meditation is the culprit, then by all means, cut back on your practices or stop entirely. Nothing is worth having ongoing panic attacks.
Much love and I pray that these attacks do not last long for you. |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 10:50:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogesh
I personally found myself being angry and nasty to my daughter like never before, so I'm glad you find it amusing, whatever.
Yes, a certain amount of crankiness comes through.
But I agree that if practicing DM is causing panic attacks, then it should be cut way down or cut completely out until things settle down. If the panic attacks continue in the absence of meditation, then that might indicate another cause. Either way, I think it would make sense to seek a doctor's help for the panic attacks if they persist.
Take good care of yourself, Stillpool! And you too, Yogesh.
Lots-o-love,
--Liz
Just a passing thought, Stillpool.... When faced with problems, I usually contemplate on why I wanted to do the thing in the first place. When you go back to your original desire, your bhakti, a way usually opens. So please don't think that just because you need to self pace a bit now, that meditation will be unavailable to you forever. It's too big of a blessing for that. You'll find a way, or a way will find you. |
Edited by - whippoorwill on Feb 13 2012 10:59:00 PM |
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 10:54:27 PM
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| One more thing I remember from the panic attack days is that I began to develop fear toward anything that I associated with an attack. Like any activity or environment that was present during an attack. I'd look at that, and think to myself, "I can just avoid this or that, maybe it was the source of the attack." Well eventually I was just avoiding and fearing EVERYTHING. Even now, 5 years past my last panic attack, I still do not know what caused them. By its very definition, it is a sourceless fear. So, keep living your life freely. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 10:56:12 PM
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Yes, I don't have kids, but I have brought up anger and have protected other people from it. I think that is good advice whether you practice yoga or not. I associate with non-yoga people who have serious anger problems and I WISH they would meditate.
I have brought out much anger I had suppressed and didn't know was there. I am so glad to get rid of it - there have been many threads talking about this. I'm probably not finished yet - it's amazing how much there is.
I think I am an extreme case. I have found silence; my inner guru easily answers my questions and guides me incredibly well, and yet I am still occasionally bringing out suppressed anger and other emotions. Hopefully you younger people don't have as much, but meditation is definitely the answer. I have tried many different methods,
including super long meditation every day, and nothing worked as well as AYP.
I'm even a sloth when it comes to spiritual stuff - I skip sessions, don't care enough; often forget bhakti etc., and it still works! |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2012 : 10:47:18 AM
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I had severe panic attacks for years preceding the spontaneous k. Debilitating and brutal. There was absolutely nothing to do. Pure hell. In retrospect, it was just part of the awakening process. The nervous system opening up too much before you are ready for it.
Sorry to say, but there is nothing you can do except to learn to overcome the fear. Are you ultra sensitive? You may be one of the cursed individuals :( |
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Feb 29 2012 : 6:21:00 PM
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First of all, I'd like once again to thank everyone for their very helpful replies. However, instead of taking most of the good advice here, I kept meditating. I don't know, my intuition (inner teacher?) kept pulling me back to the practice. Something inside me knew good things were happening. Well, the anxiety is still there, but not as strong. During my last attack, which came up out of a profound stillness during my meditation, as if someone were putting a pillow over my face, I didn't resist. I stopped thinking about what was happening and just FELT what was going on. A crushing energy was present in my heart, but as I felt it without resistance, it began softening. It's kind of embarrassing, but I started crying. Don't know why. But something in that anxiety became extremely hurt and vulnerable and warm and soft. Needy is a good word. And instead of denying this energy its existence, I embraced it. I have felt so much better since. And my meditation is deep.
So, I have a question.
A couple of times, during meditation, the mantra and my thoughts have become so fuzzy that they aren't really distinguishable, more like a kind of static, but underneath and even in the midst of this static, is so much bliss, I truly mean an indescribable feeling. Boundlessness maybe? But the thoughts are still there, not some pristine silence like I expected. The mantra is there but it isn't, if that makes sense. My question is, do I give in to this pull toward bliss, letting all go, or do I come back to the mantra distinctly?
Also, is anyone familiar with Centering Prayer? Is it like DM? There is a church group here that meets for CP one day a week here and I was thinking about attending.
Thanks all!
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 29 2012 : 7:06:18 PM
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Just gently come back to the mantra. And it doesn't have to be distinct, any form is OK!
I was emotionally abused as a child, and I used to have dreams where I was constantly scared that something was after me, but it was dark and I didn't know what it was, or why it was after me.
I wonder if panic attacks could have a similar reason?
I think that was probably due to my storing all the anger I had from being abused. My abuser was angry, and i didn't like it, so I decided to not be like that. So I hid all my own anger. Anger and fear are closely tied to each other. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 29 2012 7:13:15 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 29 2012 : 10:01:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Just gently come back to the mantra. And it doesn't have to be distinct, any form is OK!
I was emotionally abused as a child, and I used to have dreams where I was constantly scared that something was after me, but it was dark and I didn't know what it was, or why it was after me.
I wonder if panic attacks could have a similar reason?
I think that was probably due to my storing all the anger I had from being abused. My abuser was angry, and i didn't like it, so I decided to not be like that. So I hid all my own anger. Anger and fear are closely tied to each other.
Just a more intense, negative thought pattern, but it can have medical causes.
It's an interesting thing because both sides of the brain apparently cease to communicate during an attack.
It's well known that meditation reduces, or completely eradicates it.
A few days ago I posted about my cramped right hand and got a bit interested in the potential for it to be connected to the left brain. Maybe, during meditation this was being kept in check in some way.
So I decided to do a check test. A few years ago I carried out a similar test which gives an indication of the dominant side of the brain. In my case this was the left ( logic side ) by a ratio of 75/25. No surprise really.
This time around the results had altered to 50/50. Left and right are now equal. I don't say this is anything but a rough check, however it is certainly the case that the intuitive senses have increased markedly. To such a degree that I can see through people as though their nature was simply a coat floating on a central core, much like electrons around a nucleus. This confirms that some aspect has changed and in my very unscientific experiment this points to a more developed right side.
I think there may be a connection to the severity of the attacks when this imbalance is present. It might be that those with a less developed left brain are even more susceptible? |
Edited by - karl on Feb 29 2012 10:04:57 PM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2012 : 01:30:47 AM
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quote:
So I decided to do a check test. A few years ago I carried out a similar test which gives an indication of the dominant side of the brain. In my case this was the left ( logic side ) by a ratio of 75/25. No surprise really.
This time around the results had altered to 50/50.
that is so intresting...is it medical test? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2012 : 03:58:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
So I decided to do a check test. A few years ago I carried out a similar test which gives an indication of the dominant side of the brain. In my case this was the left ( logic side ) by a ratio of 75/25. No surprise really.
This time around the results had altered to 50/50.
that is so intresting...is it medical test?
No, it's a physchological test that uses patterns. I used the same one last time.
http://mindmedia.com/braintest.html
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2012 : 04:30:04 AM
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i did the test...me too i am 50% left and 50% right
auditory 25% and visual 75%
plus the analysis of my personality is quite accurate.... |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2012 : 08:11:24 AM
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Thanks Karl,
I got left 47%, right 52% Hmmm i'm missing something Ha!
and auditory and visual equal.
Several of the questions i felt were ambiguous because the question didn't have enough information to correctly choose an answer. I saw more than one answer depending on the context of the question, which wasn't given.
For instance, one answer was based on visual, another auditory, both correct, so I had to pick at random.
So my auditory and visual numbers could be wrong. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2012 : 08:57:08 AM
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| It says there are no correct answers. I just went through them without paying much detailed attention. I had another crack at it after M got exactly the same results I did. This time I didn't choose the first thing that appealed and was more discriminate and the results went down to 33/67. So, it has to be done with little thought going on. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2012 : 12:57:53 PM
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the first thing that appeals is better imho cause it is spontaneous ...the mind did not have time to interfere...i was spontaneous with a pinch of thoughts
Karl, you did not mention your auditory and visual results?... or are you only concerned with balancing your past excessive logic mode |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2012 : 1:49:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
the first thing that appeals is better imho cause it is spontaneous ...the mind did not have time to interfere...i was spontaneous with a pinch of thoughts
Karl, you did not mention your auditory and visual results?... or are you only concerned with balancing your past excessive logic mode
the visual was exactly the sae as yours. We had identical marks through out. One of the reasons I went back for a second go. I don't mean they were near, they were identical which made me wonder if there was something wrong with the test.
I wasn't concerned about the brain development, only as an explanation for the cramping hand, and then I wondered if it could be a cause of anxiety and panic attacks.
We all have a preference for either Audio, visual or Kineasthetic sensing. This doesn't seem to be showing that, instead it's showing the balance of visual to Audio. There isn't anything strange in that result, putting learning preferences aside, visual is the most highly developed sense in humans, followed by audio and Kineasthetic. I haven't mentioned Gustatory or olfactory as these are greatly reduced communication senses.
My learning preference is strongly audio, followed by visual and was a very low K score. However I worked on that some time ago and improved it a lot. |
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Panic
