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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 26 2011 : 7:52:47 PM
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This could be posted under some different categories in the forum, but I'll try to see if it sparks any comments here. This is something I've struggled with as I proceed along the path of daily practice and the appreciation of milestones of enlightenment. It's a simple question. Is the condition of enlightenment permanent (a non-stop flow of ecstatic bliss and outpouring of divine love)?
It seems as though Yogani answers with a resounding yes--that the clean-out of the nervous system is complete, and therefore, we become conduits of higher and higher divine energies springing directly from stillness.
To quote from Lesson 53 on possible scenery in pranayama (http://www.aypsite.org/53.html)
"This is not to say that experiences of light and sound are bogus. Not at all. If they are of the nature of a “peak experience,” you may consider them to be glimpses of truth you see as you are peeking between the clouds. In practices, you are in the business of removing the clouds. While you are doing that, you will get these glimpses. The more clouds you remove, the more common the glimpses will become. In time, there will be no clouds left, and the view of ecstatic beauty will be constant. Then all of life will be a peak experience."
But then, I'm reading a book by Jack Kornfield called "After the Ecstasy, the Laundry". Here is a key paragraph:
"Enlightenment does exist. It is possible to awaken. Unbounded freedom and joy, oneness with the Divine, awakening into a state of timeless grace--these experiences are more common than you know, and not far away. There is one further truth, however: They don't last. Our realizations and awakenings show us the reality of the world[emphasis added], and they bring transformation, but they pass."
So, should I say to myself: "Now, now, I just need to calm down with this bhakti stuff and realize that life is just "as it is"--the reality of the world, here on the Earth plane, perceived from the body, and that life is just a series of passing experiences, and I should be content with this. I need to get rid of this silly vision/ishta of a life filled with cosmic consciousness and freedom to travel to and from the vast realms of the universe."
Surely, there are beautiful and miraculous things occurring here in my daily life (with work, friends, family, service to the community). But part of me wants to fervently and wildly say directly to Mr. Kornfield's face: "Hey Jack! You don't mind if I keep dreaming, do you?! I mean, is it okay with you if I dream of living an earth life with unbounded consciousness that doesn't come merely in fleeting glimpses--but that keeps expanding into new and undiscovered territories?--not just emotionally/mentally, but on new planes of existence!"
Okay, I'm done for now.  Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.  |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2011 : 05:52:55 AM
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 like your style. You can stay as long as you like but eventually it ends. It ends because it is part of the same impermanence. If you are enjoying the party then that's fine, it will last as long as it lasts, just don't expect that to be forever.
This isn't a negative thing, it's a fall from the higher orbits directly to the point of origin of everything. A subtle twist that requires nothing to maintain it because it is the infinite self only, the point at which everything has become and everything rests. All happiness, all experience pivots on this point. You become the thing that you saw glimpses of.
Then you live out the rest of your life. It does not matter how it goes because you are no longer in the picture, you are the picture and everything unfolds without any need of alteration or interference because it is yourself unfolding. Just like the heart requires no assistance to beat and one day it stops without your assistance. It's not your Ego that is the picture, only the self, the Ego seeks to become, seeing itself as the picture, as creation but it is created only.
Your in the higher orbits now. The rarified atmosphere. Beautiful experiences and beautiful places. Eventually gravity and entropy will pull you back to a zero state.
No need to rush it, or to stop enjoying your current situation, all in its time, all in its place, all will happen as it should without any need to be concerned.
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Edited by - karl on Dec 27 2011 06:23:51 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2011 : 2:51:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
This isn't a negative thing, it's a fall from the higher orbits directly to the point of origin of everything. A subtle twist that requires nothing to maintain it because it is the infinite self only, the point at which everything has become and everything rests. All happiness, all experience pivots on this point. You become the thing that you saw glimpses of.
I like this! That reminds me of something from Mr. Yogani's novel...when John Wilder describes his trajectory on the enlightenment path as: "It's the death spiral I have secretly craved." Hehehe...dying into the point of origin...kind of like being sucked into a black hole beyond the event horizon and transcending the realm of time and space.
Yeah, give me some of that perspective!
Thanks for these reassuring words, Karl. One last question. Do you think it behooves us, as evolutionary, cosmic beings, to bring creative and innovative change into the manifest world, or should we just relax and enjoy the existing creation...or maybe a bit of both? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2011 : 5:23:21 PM
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| How can it be avoided? Even breathing is a creative action. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2011 : 5:34:01 PM
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Hey Bodhi Tree
I've gone through pretty much the same inquiry you are talking about here. The conclusion I came to was this.... that I could never know if living as unbounded awareness for the rest of eternity was possible without living as unbounded awareness for the rest of eternity. So I was basically forced to drop the question and just continue as I was.... doing practices everyday, purifying the nervous system as quickly as I comfortably could, inquiring into/letting go of as much as possible, and continue to try and enjoy Life and serve others as much as I can. Whether it is possible to "top out" at a certain "level" is impossible to know without continuing to try and go further. Forever. 
Just my perspective.
Love!
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2011 : 5:56:33 PM
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Thanks, Carson. Rock-solid as usual. I'm of the mind that there is no "topping out", only perpetual unfolding. Therefore, practice and live, love and serve, like you say. As Yogani says, bhakti never relaxes. Even though it cultivates more and more calmness, it wants to move.
Karl...breathing as a creative endeavor...love the minimalism. |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2011 : 10:22:27 PM
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I'm always in a higher state. You get used to it haha. A state of like transparency, feels like "emptiness is form, form is emptiness". Kind of a dream state where everything is appropriate and needed for growth, that all levels of enlightenment are non-existent. I didn't need a state for this wisdom, but the states rather nice, it's like a byproduct. I'm way zen though and dont follow most of the practices here.
Counting your treasures in heaven... that's what I work on, actual hands on wisdom to show people what secret egoic payoffs they get from being egoic, but that none of it lasts.It's that seeing or feeling"essence" is the be all end all. David Hawkins and his writings are awesome for this.
It's like a trust in god that "all roads lead to Rome", you just kinda learn how to lead people or thoughts or yourself to "Rome".
If all else fails, jsut remember the song... merrily merrily merrily merrily, life is but a dream :-D hehe |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2011 : 1:14:48 PM
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Divineis,
I'm a fan of David Hawkins as well. I like how he says that love is not so much what you give (like a commodity or possession) but instead, it's more like who you become. Very synonymous with Yogani's catch phrase: "outpouring of divine love". There's an automatic quality to this kind of love, rather than the usual selective, preferential, exclusive love most people speak of. Divine love is 360 degrees.
However, the non-duality/self-inquiry/Zen modality often lands me in a mental trap, constantly bouncing back and forth between stipulations, speculations, and lots of "castles in the air". But, if it works for you, hallelujah. I have to roll on with spinal breathing, DM, and samyama to keep myself honest.
Awake in the dream. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2012 : 04:51:36 AM
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Bodhi,
You asked, "Is the condition of enlightenment permanent (a non-stop flow of ecstatic bliss and outpouring of divine love)?" Mr. Kornfield says "no," but others have said "yes." I think he's describing savikalpa samadhi, which by definition is transitory.
Let's ask the question another way: Is it possible to stop the flow of ecstatic bliss and outpouring of divine love, especially once you realize you are that Love? How? and where would It go?
Certainly there is still Laundry to do, but who is doing it? Everything has become effortless as God is just playing this role through us. We might become momentarily distracted by circumstances, forgetting briefly that it's only a role. But, then our yoga practice brings us right back.
This is all very new to me (about 8 months) but even in the darkest moments the Love is constant. I'm going through some very heavy karmic/life stuff these days which would have been unbearable in the past, whereas now it is a wonderful opportunity for ishvarapranidhana - surrender into even deeper freedom. I don't worry about it anymore, I trust wherever that Love is taking me. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2012 : 7:03:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Radharani
This is all very new to me (about 8 months) but even in the darkest moments the Love is constant. I'm going through some very heavy karmic/life stuff these days which would have been unbearable in the past, whereas now it is a wonderful opportunity for ishvarapranidhana - surrender into even deeper freedom. I don't worry about it anymore, I trust wherever that Love is taking me.
Ditto, ditto, ditto, Radharani. I second, third, and fourth that motion--that certain events occurring in my life would be unbearable, were it not for spiritual practices/foundation.
Also, I like how you flipped the script and asked how it is possible to "stop" the flow? Reminds me of Judo--using the oppononent's momentum in your favor.
Thank your for your mirrored resonance and vibrant words. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2012 : 01:38:40 AM
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quote:
that certain events occurring in my life would be unbearable, were it not for spiritual practices/foundation.
yep same over here..passed by many unbearable family stuff in the past but yoga smoothed the way...people with no yoga practice would have gone nuts with my circumstances...lolll |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2012 : 02:55:59 AM
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I LOVE YOU GUYS SO MUCH!!! I can't tell you how wonderful it is to be in your company.  |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2012 : 6:40:41 PM
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I was just discussing this with a friend whose path is paralleling my own, with similar experiences. The majority of the time (probably 95%+ for me) everything is Bliss and cosmic consciousness - despite the fact that the actuall life circumstances I am going through are extremely "challenging," to say the least. I'm really glad they are happening NOW and not prior to my reality shift, when I would have been seriously contemplating what would be the most efficient, least messy form of suicide (not that I was normally suicidal or depressed; just the nature of these circumstances). Instead, like I said above, now it's all an opportunity for ishvarapranidhana.
Still, there have been a few times when I briefly worried that I might have "lost it," especially at first. I am finding that there is LOTS of intense purification happening as the ego is doing its best to reassert itself and/or hold onto what little grip it still has! and I am processing the residual effects of some karma (although I'm quite sure new karma is not being generated). It's like the ocean of Bliss is still there underneath always, but the waves occasionally get stirred up on the surface by a passing storm. Usually all it takes is a little pranayama, asana or tantric yoga, or mantra, to bring me right back.
During the moments when I temporarily get off-center and question, "OMG, have I lost it?!" I consider, "What would be different?" I can barely remember how it was before, other than I felt really burdened, limited and unhappy; but even as I sit there considering this, suddenly I find the persistent smile coming back to my face as waves of Love and Bliss erupt through the surface of the stormy sea. And then I realize yes, duh, God is still here - where would He/She go?! - and my Bliss is back. It never left, just temporarily obscured by the storm. So here I am experiencing real human emotions appropriate to the situation, and yet at the same time, as I offer up the experience, my reality is the Bliss that is beyond all circumstances, which is in my own heart.
Last night I was again reading "Illuminations from The Bhagavad Gita" (one of my all-time favorite books!) which I have not read since my reality changed back in May:
"Being freed from attachment, fear and anger, being fully absorbed in Me and taking refuge in Me, many, many persons in the past became purified by knowledge of Me and thus they all attained transcendental Love for Me. All the liberated souls in ancient times acted with this understanding and so attained liberation."
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"One whose happiness is within, who is active within, and is illumined within... is liberated in the Supreme."
Upon re-reading these familiar verses last night I was like, "OMG - this is exactly what has happened!" I used to always read this and WISH if only it were true, and now it is. It's finally my reality, beyond a shadow of a doubt. whoa, that is pretty f*king amazing. I am so overwhelmed with Love and gratitude!
But, the Ocean of Bliss is ALWAYS there, for all of us (and we are, of course, actually One), even though we usually are not aware of it. We are free but we don't know it. Our yoga practice clears away the mats of seaweed and calms the surface of the sea so that we can perceive the Bliss underneath which is our true Self. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2012 : 7:29:18 PM
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Great post. The bit about 'losing it' should be of help to others, as they face the same inevitable question " am I completely out of my tree to believe this stuff ? " I suspect anyone who doesn't is already a sage.
I'm re reading the Gita in another translation. Bit harder going than the first translation I read, but opens the text up in a different way that clears up some of he slick conclusions of the first one.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2012 : 06:52:08 AM
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2012 : 02:04:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Great post. The bit about 'losing it' should be of help to others, as they face the same inevitable question " am I completely out of my tree to believe this stuff ? " I suspect anyone who doesn't is already a sage.
I'm re reading the Gita in another translation. Bit harder going than the first translation I read, but opens the text up in a different way that clears up some of he slick conclusions of the first one.
I was actually referring to "losing it" as in, (as my teacher says we're NOT supposed to say), "Oh sh*t, I've lost my samadhi!" But the meaning that you mentioned is also quite pertinent here, as in "losing one's mind" (good riddance!)
I've read several different translations of the Gita and it's interesting how they vary. I love "Illuminations" because of its beauty and usefulness in meditation. |
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The nature of enlightenment
