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AYPforum
351 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 07 2005 : 5:34:10 PM
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467 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:37pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? jim_and_his_...
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@y...>
wrote:
> > If you're feeling a swell of desire to do more, and to touch on this practice more than
just
> a few minutes per day as "pockets" of spirituality, you may want to ramp up your
> observation of the yamas/niyamas...which is a 24/7 practice. Don't overestimate the
> moral purification, it's as important (and as "spiritual") as the neural purification!
One correction and one addition.
Correction: don't UNDERESTIMATE the moral purification!
Expansion: even better than observation of yamas/niyamas (though it's also sort of built in
therein): channel that extra spiritual ardor into service. For every extra hour you have a
yen to meditate, etc, invest that hour into being of selfless use to others (and try not to
be proud of it...that one's tough!).
There have been some very great gurus who've suggested nothing BUT service as the
surest and most profound path. I'm nowhere near advanced enough to weigh the benefits
of different paths, but one thing's for sure: you're not wasting your time any MORE by
being of service in the world than by sitting on the floor murmering "I am"! :)
(don't take that last remark as anything more than a smart aleck joke)
468 From: "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:11pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? nearoanoke
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Hi Jim,
I agree with you and want to add one piece that i received from
yogani. I asked him in an e-mail "Can I practice being good along
with my daily meditation too". Because without being good there is
no point in developing our spiritual powers (which might take bad
directions).
Yogani told me that little can be acheieved with "regimented
behavior". I too feel that is correct. I try to be good and do good
work but I am not still perfectly good. Right? So that causes me
some pain while trying to be good. Ofcourse bearing that pain and
strictly trying to be good one day I will be really good. But that
way of realizing onself is a bit slower compared to the spiritual
path of meditation.
So I decided that for now I will concentrate more on my spiritual
practices and try to be good in day2day life as much as i can. With
the progress in former, the latter comes too. Infact Vethathiri a
great sage of india mentions that raja yoga (meditation) is the best
way to reach enlightenment.
Love,
Near
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> One correction and one addition.
>
> Correction: don't UNDERESTIMATE the moral purification!
>
> Expansion: even better than observation of yamas/niyamas (though
it's also sort of built in
> therein): channel that extra spiritual ardor into service. For
every extra hour you have a
> yen to meditate, etc, invest that hour into being of selfless use
to others (and try not to
> be proud of it...that one's tough!).
>
> There have been some very great gurus who've suggested nothing BUT
service as the
> surest and most profound path. I'm nowhere near advanced enough
to weigh the benefits
> of different paths, but one thing's for sure: you're not wasting
your time any MORE by
> being of service in the world than by sitting on the floor
murmering "I am"! :)
>
> (don't take that last remark as anything more than a smart aleck
joke)
469 From: "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:19pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? nearoanoke
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Let me also add this
What I wrote doesnt mean selfless work is less important. Selfless
work is more important infact the most important thing and the end
goal of all our practices (meditation, helping others, prayer etc..).
But i feel the better way to reach that end stage is thru changing
our inner nature using meditation and selfless work
Love,
Near
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I agree with you and want to add one piece that i received from
> yogani. I asked him in an e-mail "Can I practice being good along
> with my daily meditation too". Because without being good there is
> no point in developing our spiritual powers (which might take bad
> directions).
>
> Yogani told me that little can be acheieved with "regimented
> behavior". I too feel that is correct. I try to be good and do
good
> work but I am not still perfectly good. Right? So that causes me
> some pain while trying to be good. Ofcourse bearing that pain and
> strictly trying to be good one day I will be really good. But that
> way of realizing onself is a bit slower compared to the spiritual
> path of meditation.
>
> So I decided that for now I will concentrate more on my spiritual
> practices and try to be good in day2day life as much as i can.
With
> the progress in former, the latter comes too. Infact Vethathiri a
> great sage of india mentions that raja yoga (meditation) is the
best
> way to reach enlightenment.
>
> Love,
> Near
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > One correction and one addition.
> >
> > Correction: don't UNDERESTIMATE the moral purification!
> >
> > Expansion: even better than observation of yamas/niyamas (though
> it's also sort of built in
> > therein): channel that extra spiritual ardor into service. For
> every extra hour you have a
> > yen to meditate, etc, invest that hour into being of selfless
use
> to others (and try not to
> > be proud of it...that one's tough!).
> >
> > There have been some very great gurus who've suggested nothing
BUT
> service as the
> > surest and most profound path. I'm nowhere near advanced enough
> to weigh the benefits
> > of different paths, but one thing's for sure: you're not wasting
> your time any MORE by
> > being of service in the world than by sitting on the floor
> murmering "I am"! :)
> >
> > (don't take that last remark as anything more than a smart aleck
> joke)
472 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:31pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email
Work on meditation and pranayama IS selfless work, because it'll help you move through
the world more constructively and less destructively, and make you more deeply available
to those around you in every conceivable way. Also, these practices build your innate
compassion.
People who launch into selfless work without first clearing out their accumulated garbage
can inadvertantly do as much harm as good. We've all seen the type...the bossy/
controlling or martyrish good samaritan. Charity begins at home!
Shoot, I was afraid my crack about sitting on the floor murmuring "I am" might be taken
the wrong way...
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@y...> wrote:
>
> Let me also add this
>
> What I wrote doesnt mean selfless work is less important. Selfless
> work is more important infact the most important thing and the end
> goal of all our practices (meditation, helping others, prayer etc..).
>
> But i feel the better way to reach that end stage is thru changing
> our inner nature using meditation and selfless work
>
> Love,
> Near
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jim,
> >
> > I agree with you and want to add one piece that i received from
> > yogani. I asked him in an e-mail "Can I practice being good along
> > with my daily meditation too". Because without being good there is
> > no point in developing our spiritual powers (which might take bad
> > directions).
> >
> > Yogani told me that little can be acheieved with "regimented
> > behavior". I too feel that is correct. I try to be good and do
> good
> > work but I am not still perfectly good. Right? So that causes me
> > some pain while trying to be good. Ofcourse bearing that pain and
> > strictly trying to be good one day I will be really good. But that
> > way of realizing onself is a bit slower compared to the spiritual
> > path of meditation.
> >
> > So I decided that for now I will concentrate more on my spiritual
> > practices and try to be good in day2day life as much as i can.
> With
> > the progress in former, the latter comes too. Infact Vethathiri a
> > great sage of india mentions that raja yoga (meditation) is the
> best
> > way to reach enlightenment.
> >
> > Love,
> > Near
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> > <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > > One correction and one addition.
> > >
> > > Correction: don't UNDERESTIMATE the moral purification!
> > >
> > > Expansion: even better than observation of yamas/niyamas (though
> > it's also sort of built in
> > > therein): channel that extra spiritual ardor into service. For
> > every extra hour you have a
> > > yen to meditate, etc, invest that hour into being of selfless
> use
> > to others (and try not to
> > > be proud of it...that one's tough!).
> > >
> > > There have been some very great gurus who've suggested nothing
> BUT
> > service as the
> > > surest and most profound path. I'm nowhere near advanced enough
> > to weigh the benefits
> > > of different paths, but one thing's for sure: you're not wasting
> > your time any MORE by
> > > being of service in the world than by sitting on the floor
> > murmering "I am"! :)
> > >
> > > (don't take that last remark as anything more than a smart aleck
> > joke)
471 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:24pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email
"Good" is a western concept. Nowhere in the yamas/niyamas do they use (or even veer
close to) terms like good/bad, sin, evil, etc. A contrast of western/eastern models of ethics
is probably off topic for this forum (especially as it would lead to the vast issue of karma,
which would probably quickly expand to choak out the AYP talk), but take a look at lesson
149 for the skinny on yamas/niyamas. They are direct from Patanjali, and part/parcel of
yoga practice, and they're not about being noble or pleasing some external deity...and
certainly not about any sort of regimented behavior.
If you have your own personal, political, or religious beliefs with regard to ethics, sin, and/
or standards of behavior, that's a different thing, and it's not something anyone has any
right to pronounce upon. I'm just talking about yoga. :)
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I agree with you and want to add one piece that i received from
> yogani. I asked him in an e-mail "Can I practice being good along
> with my daily meditation too". Because without being good there is
> no point in developing our spiritual powers (which might take bad
> directions).
>
> Yogani told me that little can be acheieved with "regimented
> behavior". I too feel that is correct. I try to be good and do good
> work but I am not still perfectly good. Right? So that causes me
> some pain while trying to be good. Ofcourse bearing that pain and
> strictly trying to be good one day I will be really good. But that
> way of realizing onself is a bit slower compared to the spiritual
> path of meditation.
>
> So I decided that for now I will concentrate more on my spiritual
> practices and try to be good in day2day life as much as i can. With
> the progress in former, the latter comes too. Infact Vethathiri a
> great sage of india mentions that raja yoga (meditation) is the best
> way to reach enlightenment.
>
> Love,
> Near
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > One correction and one addition.
> >
> > Correction: don't UNDERESTIMATE the moral purification!
> >
> > Expansion: even better than observation of yamas/niyamas (though
> it's also sort of built in
> > therein): channel that extra spiritual ardor into service. For
> every extra hour you have a
> > yen to meditate, etc, invest that hour into being of selfless use
> to others (and try not to
> > be proud of it...that one's tough!).
> >
> > There have been some very great gurus who've suggested nothing BUT
> service as the
> > surest and most profound path. I'm nowhere near advanced enough
> to weigh the benefits
> > of different paths, but one thing's for sure: you're not wasting
> your time any MORE by
> > being of service in the world than by sitting on the floor
> murmering "I am"! :)
> >
> > (don't take that last remark as anything more than a smart aleck
> joke)
473 From: "quickstudy05" <quickstudy05@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:12pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? quickstudy05
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See also, AYP lesson 132 - "What is sin?"
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/132
Yogananda said, "A saint is a sinner who never gave up!"
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
>
> "Good" is a western concept. Nowhere in the yamas/niyamas do they
use (or even veer
> close to) terms like good/bad, sin, evil, etc. A contrast of
western/eastern models of ethics
> is probably off topic for this forum (especially as it would lead
to the vast issue of karma,
> which would probably quickly expand to choak out the AYP talk), but
take a look at lesson
> 149 for the skinny on yamas/niyamas. They are direct from
Patanjali, and part/parcel of
> yoga practice, and they're not about being noble or pleasing some
external deity...and
> certainly not about any sort of regimented behavior.
>
> If you have your own personal, political, or religious beliefs with
regard to ethics, sin, and/
> or standards of behavior, that's a different thing, and it's not
something anyone has any
> right to pronounce upon. I'm just talking about yoga. :)
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jim,
> >
> > I agree with you and want to add one piece that i received from
> > yogani. I asked him in an e-mail "Can I practice being good along
> > with my daily meditation too". Because without being good there
is
> > no point in developing our spiritual powers (which might take bad
> > directions).
> >
> > Yogani told me that little can be acheieved with "regimented
> > behavior". I too feel that is correct. I try to be good and do
good
> > work but I am not still perfectly good. Right? So that causes me
> > some pain while trying to be good. Ofcourse bearing that pain and
> > strictly trying to be good one day I will be really good. But
that
> > way of realizing onself is a bit slower compared to the spiritual
> > path of meditation.
> >
> > So I decided that for now I will concentrate more on my spiritual
> > practices and try to be good in day2day life as much as i can.
With
> > the progress in former, the latter comes too. Infact Vethathiri a
> > great sage of india mentions that raja yoga (meditation) is the
best
> > way to reach enlightenment.
> >
> > Love,
> > Near
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> > <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > > One correction and one addition.
> > >
> > > Correction: don't UNDERESTIMATE the moral purification!
> > >
> > > Expansion: even better than observation of yamas/niyamas
(though
> > it's also sort of built in
> > > therein): channel that extra spiritual ardor into service. For
> > every extra hour you have a
> > > yen to meditate, etc, invest that hour into being of selfless
use
> > to others (and try not to
> > > be proud of it...that one's tough!).
> > >
> > > There have been some very great gurus who've suggested nothing
BUT
> > service as the
> > > surest and most profound path. I'm nowhere near advanced
enough
> > to weigh the benefits
> > > of different paths, but one thing's for sure: you're not
wasting
> > your time any MORE by
> > > being of service in the world than by sitting on the floor
> > murmering "I am"! :)
> > >
> > > (don't take that last remark as anything more than a smart
aleck
> > joke)
478 From: "Adam West" <adamwest1@iprimus.com.au>
Date: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:13am
Subject: Re: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? fraterandros1
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Hey all,
Most of the Swamis and Adepts I have spoken with who have actually achieved something, have said that if you really intend on achieving Self Realization, your going to have to build up to many hours a day, extended over years. If you don't, its quite likely you will not achieve that out come. Progress, yes, but illumination, not in this life time.... No such thing as a free lunch, true of all endeavors, pretty self evident really, of course, my self evidence is another mans delusion :-)
In kind regards,
Adam.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
481 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:16pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email
Adam, yeah, true. I've considered that a bunch. Here's how I think of it, fwiw.
To return to that guitar analogy again, most people who want to be Andre Segovia (great
classical guitarist) put in countless hours per day...plus hope they've got the God given
talent. They do NOT go to France, do NOT fall in love, and do NOT open a business
(mastering an art is the equivalent of the path of renunciation, and I know whereof I speak
on this, having reached a high position in one of the arts through mucho work and
sacrifice).
A lot of people out there would like to be Andre Segovia, and launch into this regimen.
One or two will make it, and the rest will fade because they can't handle the commitment,
they get distracted, they don't move fast enough, they don't have the preordained flair,
they have triplets, they go to France, they hurt their backs, they have bills to pay, they, for
whatever reason, turn away. They'll become doctors or clerks or UPS truck drivers (and into
the attic goes the guitar).
Those are all fine things to become, and that's where the metaphor breaks down. Because
if you abandon spiritual practice, it won't be fine. You'll always bear a deep subconscious
discontent, because your soul knows what it is missing. Every human feels that lack, but
after having practiced, it'll really screw with you, believe me.
Some spiritual paths function as farm teams for the big leagues, trying to winnow for
potential Segovias by putting adherents on crash course tracks. You've spoken to folks
who've excelled in that system. Mobs and mobs have not.
AYP is different. It's a path whereby every single person can make long term progress
regardless of their karma (and the talented Segovias, via self-pacing, can make fast
progress). And even those of us who, in the end, don't rebloom as vast and powerful
enlightened beings like the Starchild of 2001 can enjoy a heckuva ride of great energy,
deep insight, and copious load lightening.....and that's more than good enough for me; in
fact, it's so precious that I never want to lose those things. Ever.
This is not to say that AYP is a lowest-common-denominator "spiritual practice for the
rest of us". Yogani insists that even within the modest parameters of AYP commitment,
many can reach that endgame (certainly, one would think, including the naturally talented
Segovias). Not that I'm qualified to say, but I don't doubt he's discovered a shortcut. But, in
any case, I really don't care. I walk this path for sheer delight, not to reach a goal. I've had
enough ladder climbing and enough goal striving. That stuff's never brought me
happiness, it's all about ego. What I get (and presume you do, too) right now from AYP is
pretty damned good. And it's getting better. And that's all that matters.
I've reached some exquisite points with various spiritual practices, and endured some very
dark periods after I lapsed. But I'm pretty sure AYP is something I'm going to do
every...single...day. And the days are feeling good. Don't underestimate good days! Yogani
says AYP offers good days plus the big ending. I'll keep my eye on the former and
progress bumpily toward the latter. It feels right, which is why I'm here. And , per my
message just before this one, AYP is intrinsically built on a compact, highly sustainable
package of practices. It's all about the compression, so trying to expand it defeats the
purpose!
Once again, leftover bhakti during enthusiastic periods can be invested into being of
service. Countless masters of most every tradition have considered service a deep, true,
and efficacious path. If this idea repels anyone reading along because they feel drawn
ONLY to cultivating energy and power and spiritual attainment, it may be time to consider
where ego fits into all this. That's not an issue Yogani much broaches, perhaps because
he's so naturally modest that he underestimates the trap. I'd highly recommend "Cutting
Through Spiritual Materialism" by Chogyam Trungpa, one of the most beautifully insightful
books ever written and must-reading for any seeker. Even the most sincere adherent can
be deluded unaware into using his sadhana to feed, rather than extinguish, ego and this
book's like a survival manual through that thicket!
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Adam West" <adamwest1@i...> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> Most of the Swamis and Adepts I have spoken with who have actually achieved
something, have said that if you really intend on achieving Self Realization, your going to
have to build up to many hours a day, extended over years. If you don't, its quite likely
you will not achieve that out come. Progress, yes, but illumination, not in this life time....
No such thing as a free lunch, true of all endeavors, pretty self evident really, of course,
my self evidence is another mans delusion :-)
>
> In kind regards,
>
> Adam.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
483 From: Ashwin Sun <ashwinjlsun@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? ashwinjlsun
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Another option is to have a steady practice that slowly grows in length, and to then take 'immersions' weekly, biweekly, or monthly...like retreats...were we go 'deeper' in meditation and emptiness. Enlightened ones say this method works...
Let us not forget, as Yogananda put it, "Devotion is more important then meditation; together, they are an unbeatable combination!"
Many Blessings-
Adam West <adamwest1@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
Hey all,
Most of the Swamis and Adepts I have spoken with who have actually achieved something, have said that if you really intend on achieving Self Realization, your going to have to build up to many hours a day, extended over years. If you don't, its quite likely you will not achieve that out come. Progress, yes, but illumination, not in this life time.... No such thing as a free lunch, true of all endeavors, pretty self evident really, of course, my self evidence is another mans delusion :-)
In kind regards,
Adam.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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485 From: "Adam West" <adamwest1@iprimus.com.au>
Date: Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? fraterandros1
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Greetings my brother,
I agree with all that you have said!!! The path is certainly holistic, i.e. service to our other selves and self, pranayama, meditation, bakti etc. I just wished to express, that like excellence in any field, there is no magic buttons, no short cuts (some systems are more efficient than others), no someone else doing the work for you. Discipline and hard work is necessary, after all, Self Realization is mastery of ones self, thus mastery of ones lower bodies i.e., ones physical body, emotional and mental bodies will take place in time and will need to occur in order to sustain union with Divine Consciousness. As oil can not mix with water, thus the transmutation process of the small self is where the work is, amongst other things.
Acknowledgement of one frailties and being realistic about what you can and can't do is profoundly wise, yet many twist such an acknowledgement into the service of egoic consciousness, in order to rationalize giving up, giving into internal drives and external distractions. What do you want out of life, what are your priorities? Indeed it is my feeling that there will come a time with spiritual maturity/ripeness, that increasing contact/integration and awareness of ones true nature, will result in many of our instinctual drives and social practices falling away. That the satisfaction from such behaviours, will pale in comparison to deeper God Contact. Indeed, I believe the profound artists of the world are so driven, not due to choice, but because they are compelled to unite with the music they give expression to, it chose them, not the other way around, thus ten to twelve hours a day of practice was a delight, a profound disipline, yet a compulsion. I
On a personal note, if I attempted to live a purely secular, instinctually driven life, where my dominate drives and time were spent in such a pursuit, it would be instantly found to be hollow, meaningless and unsatisfying. Depression would occur, life with out daily resting in the Divine, with out perpetual communication and contact with in meditation and in daily activities would be unbearable. Once the light has been turned on, you can never go back to groping about in the darkness. Most certainly though one does not neglect or run from ones life or drives, one simply spiritualizes them/it, this is the Tantric tradition, all is Divine, thus every act is a movement of the Divine, nothing is mundane, all is Love, Bliss and Wonder. Naturally suffering continues, but it is the play and expession of something much deeper than it may appear on the surface, to one who is not intergrated with the whole Its a mind set, an expression of consciousness, there is no ether or, just Sat Chit Ananda....
Clearly a balance must be met... the middle path of harmonic integration between the forces of Siva and Shakti, Macrocosmic Being and Microcosmic expression must be found....
In kind regards,
Adam.
Adam, yeah, true. I've considered that a bunch. Here's how I think of it, fwiw.
To return to that guitar analogy again, most people who want to be Andre Segovia (great
classical guitarist) put in countless hours per day...plus hope they've got the God given
talent. They do NOT go to France, do NOT fall in love, and do NOT open a business
(mastering an art is the equivalent of the path of renunciation, and I know whereof I speak
on this, having reached a high position in one of the arts through mucho work and
sacrifice).
A lot of people out there would like to be Andre Segovia, and launch into this regimen.
One or two will make it, and the rest will fade because they can't handle the commitment,
they get distracted, they don't move fast enough, they don't have the preordained flair,
they have triplets, they go to France, they hurt their backs, they have bills to pay, they, for
whatever reason, turn away. They'll become doctors or clerks or UPS truck drivers (and into
the attic goes the guitar).
Those are all fine things to become, and that's where the metaphor breaks down. Because
if you abandon spiritual practice, it won't be fine. You'll always bear a deep subconscious
discontent, because your soul knows what it is missing. Every human feels that lack, but
after having practiced, it'll really screw with you, believe me.
Some spiritual paths function as farm teams for the big leagues, trying to winnow for
potential Segovias by putting adherents on crash course tracks. You've spoken to folks
who've excelled in that system. Mobs and mobs have not.
AYP is different. It's a path whereby every single person can make long term progress
regardless of their karma (and the talented Segovias, via self-pacing, can make fast
progress). And even those of us who, in the end, don't rebloom as vast and powerful
enlightened beings like the Starchild of 2001 can enjoy a heckuva ride of great energy,
deep insight, and copious load lightening.....and that's more than good enough for me; in
fact, it's so precious that I never want to lose those things. Ever.
This is not to say that AYP is a lowest-common-denominator "spiritual practice for the
rest of us". Yogani insists that even within the modest parameters of AYP commitment,
many can reach that endgame (certainly, one would think, including the naturally talented
Segovias). Not that I'm qualified to say, but I don't doubt he's discovered a shortcut. But, in
any case, I really don't care. I walk this path for sheer delight, not to reach a goal. I've had
enough ladder climbing and enough goal striving. That stuff's never brought me
happiness, it's all about ego. What I get (and presume you do, too) right now from AYP is
pretty damned good. And it's getting better. And that's all that matters.
I've reached some exquisite points with various spiritual practices, and endured some very
dark periods after I lapsed. But I'm pretty sure AYP is something I'm going to do
every...single...day. And the days are feeling good. Don't underestimate good days! Yogani
says AYP offers good days plus the big ending. I'll keep my eye on the former and
progress bumpily toward the latter. It feels right, which is why I'm here. And , per my
message just before this one, AYP is intrinsically built on a compact, highly sustainable
package of practices. It's all about the compression, so trying to expand it defeats the
purpose!
Once again, leftover bhakti during enthusiastic periods can be invested into being of
service. Countless masters of most every tradition have considered service a deep, true,
and efficacious path. If this idea repels anyone reading along because they feel drawn
ONLY to cultivating energy and power and spiritual attainment, it may be time to consider
where ego fits into all this. That's not an issue Yogani much broaches, perhaps because
he's so naturally modest that he underestimates the trap. I'd highly recommend "Cutting
Through Spiritual Materialism" by Chogyam Trungpa, one of the most beautifully insightful
books ever written and must-reading for any seeker. Even the most sincere adherent can
be deluded unaware into using his sadhana to feed, rather than extinguish, ego and this
book's like a survival manual through that thicket!
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Adam West" <adamwest1@i...> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> Most of the Swamis and Adepts I have spoken with who have actually achieved
something, have said that if you really intend on achieving Self Realization, your going to
have to build up to many hours a day, extended over years. If you don't, its quite likely
you will not achieve that out come. Progress, yes, but illumination, not in this life time....
No such thing as a free lunch, true of all endeavors, pretty self evident really, of course,
my self evidence is another mans delusion :-)
>
> In kind regards,
>
> Adam.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
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487 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:52pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? jim_and_his_...
Offline
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"like excellence in any field, there is no magic buttons, no short cuts (some systems are
more efficient than others)"
On the other hand, the original teachings of the Buddha indicate that all you need to do is
wake up, and that it takes but an instant of divine inspiration. He's right, and Yogani's
right, and you're right. We're all in different situations, and we'll each of us awaken when
the time's right. We can help by giving our sadhana our attention. But even that is a
function of being ready... ready to invest that attention! AYP gives the attentive among us
a model for injecting very focused and sustained attention over long term, and outlines
the plan without the usual drapings of mythology, superstition, etc. It's pared down to a
containable method that can last a lifetime for those in it for the long haul.
I'm not pursuing excellence, myself...at least I don't think so. I mainly just want to stop
distracting myself from realizing my true nature. I've had glimpses of what that nature is,
and it aggravates me that the clouds keep coming back. So what I'm aspiring to isn't
excellence, like learning to ski. It's freedom. The cessation of being an unconscious self-
deluded dead-to-the-world and slave-to-the-maya dingbat. And insofar as I understand
the spiritual literature (and I've read a great deal of it), that's the whole enchilada (unless
one wants to turn water to wine and accomplish other neat tricks which strike me as
something of a side trip).
I find the process of dispelling those clouds unbeievably joyful - the perfect source of
meaning for my stay here on Earth - and I consider AYP an effective and streamlined
method for doing just that.
But it's definitely NOT the one true path! So, I guess, in the end, we're in agreement! Thank
goodness there are paths for us all. But I'm no less keen or avid than you or anyone else,
even with my 40 measly minutes of practice per day, I assure you! :)
490 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:00am
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@y...>
wrote:
> > my 40 measly minutes of practice per day
Actually, that's totally wrong. 30 x 2 is 60. Plus a 60 minute daily asana practice, a
vigorous walking/running practice (to distribute the energy from pranayama), and 24/7
attention to yamas/niyamas and cultivation of fine tuned body (and energetic body)
awareness...plus as much service as I can possibly cram in, mostly little things.
Used to meditate for hours. Made deep "progress" but it never much stuck/integrated in
my life, and I didn't keep it up for very long. Just passionate binges.
499 From: "Paula Youmans" <paula@webboise.com>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 0:09pm
Subject: RE: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? paula_youmans
Send IM
Send Email
Hello again :-)
I practice anywhere from 20-60 minutes a day, depending on how everything
goes. I am one of those examples of why Yogani adds those extra words of
caution LOL. The moment I feel anything out of the "norm" happening, I back
off immediately. Sometimes that happens in 5 minutes.sometimes I can go 30
minutes each session all week long with no issues. I'm not sure what you
call it as a practice, but I basically sit and clear my mind to where there
is nothing...I guess that's probably about lesson 10 if I remember correctly
LOL.
I never had much of a formal background when it came to meditation and the
like. Other than reading a lot, some tai chi and yoga classes I have never
considered myself to be very learned in such matters. I was drawn to the AYP
because it is so simply stated. At first I just read the digests as they
passed, and then one day decided to go in and start reading/doing the
lessons (I do everything backwards lol ). I like the fact that there is
little to no dogma as well; I find it refreshing to just get to the point.
I do have to say that so far everything is working well. I actually feel in
control for once. Instead of the "energy" taking me over entirely it
actually stops when I take it back down. I think everyone that said Yogani
recommends building the habit of daily practice is correct, not only because
slow and steady wins the race but because it can be "dangerous" (not sure if
I am using the right word) and if you aren't familiar with the basics it can
get really rough.
Kindest regards,
Paula
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
489 From: "Adam West" <adamwest1@iprimus.com.au>
Date: Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? fraterandros1
Offline
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I'm with you my brother! ;-)
In kind regards,
Adam.
"like excellence in any field, there is no magic buttons, no short cuts (some systems are
more efficient than others)"
On the other hand, the original teachings of the Buddha indicate that all you need to do is
wake up, and that it takes but an instant of divine inspiration. He's right, and Yogani's
right, and you're right. We're all in different situations, and we'll each of us awaken when
the time's right. We can help by giving our sadhana our attention. But even that is a
function of being ready... ready to invest that attention! AYP gives the attentive among us
a model for injecting very focused and sustained attention over long term, and outlines
the plan without the usual drapings of mythology, superstition, etc. It's pared down to a
containable method that can last a lifetime for those in it for the long haul.
I'm not pursuing excellence, myself...at least I don't think so. I mainly just want to stop
distracting myself from realizing my true nature. I've had glimpses of what that nature is,
and it aggravates me that the clouds keep coming back. So what I'm aspiring to isn't
excellence, like learning to ski. It's freedom. The cessation of being an unconscious self-
deluded dead-to-the-world and slave-to-the-maya dingbat. And insofar as I understand
the spiritual literature (and I've read a great deal of it), that's the whole enchilada (unless
one wants to turn water to wine and accomplish other neat tricks which strike me as
something of a side trip).
I find the process of dispelling those clouds unbeievably joyful - the perfect source of
meaning for my stay here on Earth - and I consider AYP an effective and streamlined
method for doing just that.
But it's definitely NOT the one true path! So, I guess, in the end, we're in agreement! Thank
goodness there are paths for us all. But I'm no less keen or avid than you or anyone else,
even with my 40 measly minutes of practice per day, I assure you! :)
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
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491 From: "Alex Marks" <alex@amarks81.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:26am
Subject: Re: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? alexmarks9
Offline
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It's very important to integrate the meditations with 'normal life'. So we meditate in silence and then go out ito the world and participate. This is particularly appropriate now. No doubt in past lives we've all spent hours in solitary meditation in our mountain caves or monastories but in this life in 2005 that's not how it's done.
In and out, Yin and Yang. We cultivate our inner selves and then mix it up with everone and everything outside of our meditation room.
----- Original Message -----
From: jim_and_his_karma
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:00 AM
Subject: [AYPforum] Re: How many hours of practices everyday?
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@y...>
wrote:
> > my 40 measly minutes of practice per day
Actually, that's totally wrong. 30 x 2 is 60. Plus a 60 minute daily asana practice, a
vigorous walking/running practice (to distribute the energy from pranayama), and 24/7
attention to yamas/niyamas and cultivation of fine tuned body (and energetic body)
awareness...plus as much service as I can possibly cram in, mostly little things.
Used to meditate for hours. Made deep "progress" but it never much stuck/integrated in
my life, and I didn't keep it up for very long. Just passionate binges.
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the group home page.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
501 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:07pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? jim_and_his_...
Offline
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I'm not sure things are so different now in "our modern world." Most spiritual traditions
emphasize the need to bring the practice home, so to speak. Some approaches emphasize
a period of quarantine to nurse the practice through its delicate stages, and retreats later
on to recharge. But the world has always been frenetic and bumpy and filled with
stimulation (I was in Morocco recently, and the bustle factor even in traditional areas was
far higher than in Midtown Manhattan). The reason we want to integrate rather than
segregate is that we're in the world, not renunciates. And non-renunciate seekers have for
millenia had this exact same discussion!
Which isn't to say I don't totally agree with your point! I do my asana practice in a low-
class gym, with throbbing techno music and crashing barbells, right next to the boxing
bag being pummeled by grunting thugs. I don't get quite as deep as I can get at home. But
it integrates like crazy, and it keeps that sanctimonious "I'm so spiritual" look off my face
(otherwise someone would chuck a dumbell at me!).
And while I don't meditate at the gym, I'm grateful for the car horns and alarms and
chattering passersby under my window at home. I don't block them out through huge
efforts of mental concentration, I just let them exist without dancing with them. They
teach me to do this, so they're sort of my guru. Some people use the gurgle of rivers, I use
emergency vehicles and bickering Hispanic couples.
I want the "me" who does yoga to be the same "me" who goes to parties and drives
through rush hour traffic. I've always felt repelled by the notion of having one's sacred
space and time for doing one's practices where everything's just "so" - and wherein one
transforms into someone else. It seems counter to the whole point. Of course, what suits
me isn't best for others (and I could, honestly, dig the idea of spending a year in a cave...at
least in theory!), but I don't see contradiction in being devoted to practice with lots of
bhakti yet approaching it all with the casual nothing-specialness of brushing my teeth.
That tooth brushing metaphor is (obviously) very close to my heart! I think it's a missing
element for a lot of Western seekers...and perhaps Eastern, too.
Thank God for Chogyam Trungpa!
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Marks" <alex@a...> wrote:
>
> It's very important to integrate the meditations with 'normal life'. So we meditate in
silence and then go out ito the world and participate. This is particularly appropriate now.
No doubt in past lives we've all spent hours in solitary meditation in our mountain caves or
monastories but in this life in 2005 that's not how it's done.
>
> In and out, Yin and Yang. We cultivate our inner selves and then mix it up with everone
and everything outside of our meditation room.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jim_and_his_karma
> To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:00 AM
> Subject: [AYPforum] Re: How many hours of practices everyday?
>
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@y...>
> wrote:
> > > my 40 measly minutes of practice per day
>
>
> Actually, that's totally wrong. 30 x 2 is 60. Plus a 60 minute daily asana practice, a
> vigorous walking/running practice (to distribute the energy from pranayama), and 24/
7
> attention to yamas/niyamas and cultivation of fine tuned body (and energetic body)
> awareness...plus as much service as I can possibly cram in, mostly little things.
>
> Used to meditate for hours. Made deep "progress" but it never much stuck/integrated
in
> my life, and I didn't keep it up for very long. Just passionate binges.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
> AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank email to:
> AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
> AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the group home page.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
493 From: "Adam West" <adamwest1@iprimus.com.au>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:48am
Subject: Re: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? fraterandros1
Offline
Send Email
Hey guys,
This reminds of what a spiritual friend told me years ago..." seated meditation serves as 'practice' in an easy distraction free environment, hence later when in the real world, we can do so at all times in the midst of our turbulent lives".
In kind regards,
Adam.
It's very important to integrate the meditations with 'normal life'. So we meditate in silence and then go out ito the world and participate. This is particularly appropriate now. No doubt in past lives we've all spent hours in solitary meditation in our mountain caves or monastories but in this life in 2005 that's not how it's done.
In and out, Yin and Yang. We cultivate our inner selves and then mix it up with everone and everything outside of our meditation room.
----- Original Message -----
From: jim_and_his_karma
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:00 AM
Subject: [AYPforum] Re: How many hours of practices everyday?
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@y...>
wrote:
> > my 40 measly minutes of practice per day
Actually, that's totally wrong. 30 x 2 is 60. Plus a 60 minute daily asana practice, a
vigorous walking/running practice (to distribute the energy from pranayama), and 24/7
attention to yamas/niyamas and cultivation of fine tuned body (and energetic body)
awareness...plus as much service as I can possibly cram in, mostly little things.
Used to meditate for hours. Made deep "progress" but it never much stuck/integrated in
my life, and I didn't keep it up for very long. Just passionate binges.
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the group home page.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
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To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
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494 From: "Alex Marks" <alex@amarks81.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:55am
Subject: Re: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? alexmarks9
Offline
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I didn't mean it so much as a test of our practice, as living in the world is part of the practice. Working, relating, bringing up kids - it's what we're here on earth for. If we're just going to spend our time inside our own skins - why bother to incarnate in the first place?
Certainly when starting on this path going within is a necessary step - but it's not the only thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: Adam West
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [AYPforum] Re: How many hours of practices everyday?
Hey guys,
This reminds of what a spiritual friend told me years ago..." seated meditation serves as 'practice' in an easy distraction free environment, hence later when in the real world, we can do so at all times in the midst of our turbulent lives".
In kind regards,
Adam.
It's very important to integrate the meditations with 'normal life'. So we meditate in silence and then go out ito the world and participate. This is particularly appropriate now. No doubt in past lives we've all spent hours in solitary meditation in our mountain caves or monastories but in this life in 2005 that's not how it's done.
In and out, Yin and Yang. We cultivate our inner selves and then mix it up with everone and everything outside of our meditation room.
----- Original Message -----
From: jim_and_his_karma
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:00 AM
Subject: [AYPforum] Re: How many hours of practices everyday?
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@y...>
wrote:
> > my 40 measly minutes of practice per day
Actually, that's totally wrong. 30 x 2 is 60. Plus a 60 minute daily asana practice, a
vigorous walking/running practice (to distribute the energy from pranayama), and 24/7
attention to yamas/niyamas and cultivation of fine tuned body (and energetic body)
awareness...plus as much service as I can possibly cram in, mostly little things.
Used to meditate for hours. Made deep "progress" but it never much stuck/integrated in
my life, and I didn't keep it up for very long. Just passionate binges.
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the group home page.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
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To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
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For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
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496 From: "Adam West" <adamwest1@iprimus.com.au>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:31am
Subject: Re: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? fraterandros1
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Hi Alex,
I meant the same as you, though I would include that we remain aware of and in contact with our inner selves while simultaneously giving expression to our outer. A dissolving of the experience of duality, of one or the other, just pure unconditioned human experience, as God incarnate :-) Just my limited two cents :-)
In kind regards,
Adam.
I didn't mean it so much as a test of our practice, as living in the world is part of the practice. Working, relating, bringing up kids - it's what we're here on earth for. If we're just going to spend our time inside our own skins - why bother to incarnate in the first place?
Certainly when starting on this path going within is a necessary step - but it's not the only thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: Adam West
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [AYPforum] Re: How many hours of practices everyday?
Hey guys,
This reminds of what a spiritual friend told me years ago..." seated meditation serves as 'practice' in an easy distraction free environment, hence later when in the real world, we can do so at all times in the midst of our turbulent lives".
In kind regards,
Adam.
It's very important to integrate the meditations with 'normal life'. So we meditate in silence and then go out ito the world and participate. This is particularly appropriate now. No doubt in past lives we've all spent hours in solitary meditation in our mountain caves or monastories but in this life in 2005 that's not how it's done.
In and out, Yin and Yang. We cultivate our inner selves and then mix it up with everone and everything outside of our meditation room.
----- Original Message -----
From: jim_and_his_karma
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:00 AM
Subject: [AYPforum] Re: How many hours of practices everyday?
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@y...>
wrote:
> > my 40 measly minutes of practice per day
Actually, that's totally wrong. 30 x 2 is 60. Plus a 60 minute daily asana practice, a
vigorous walking/running practice (to distribute the energy from pranayama), and 24/7
attention to yamas/niyamas and cultivation of fine tuned body (and energetic body)
awareness...plus as much service as I can possibly cram in, mostly little things.
Used to meditate for hours. Made deep "progress" but it never much stuck/integrated in
my life, and I didn't keep it up for very long. Just passionate binges.
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
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