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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 11 2011 : 08:49:47 AM
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this realization is repeatedly coming to me during the day....i have read it before in Krishnamurti works,even Ramana Maharshi points to it by saying ,close the eyes and see if the world exist or notice the deep sleep state etc...... but now after reading Atma Darshan by Atmananda and now reading John Levy...it is a deeper realization...i am perceiving an object...the object do not exist unless i perceive it....also the "existence" of the object makes the "i" exist...both "objects" and "i" need each other to "exist"...."objects" and "i" are the duality , the split, that need each other to both " exist"....they need each other therefore there is no difference between "objects" and "i" , the "perceived" and "perceiver",the 'seen" and the "seer" ....furhtermore the objects are not inter related, the seer makes them inter related.....when this is deeply realized there is a suspension of mental activity and ,awarness appears....this awarness is not dual and not split ...it just is....then the world appears like those old mute movies ....you see the table,the cup on it, the steam coming from the hot drink....
an objection can be made saying: others are seeing this" object" regardless if "i" is seeing it or not.....this is illogical,if others observe the "object" ,they are doing it from their mental dualistic standpoint of subject and object.....their experience is personal….but from non duality perpective there is no person,there is no individual seer…..
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amoux
United Kingdom
266 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2011 : 09:07:25 AM
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| No subject/object divide. As Thich Nhat Hahn puts it so elegantly "I am here for you to be". |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2011 : 09:50:49 AM
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that sounds consistent with nisargadatta's "I am That."  |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2011 : 01:42:12 AM
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thx Gatito...yes it is ....
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2011 : 01:46:57 AM
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| I'm glad |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2011 : 03:42:57 AM
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| very cool, my dear! |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2011 : 04:10:03 AM
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Now you only need to figure out who those "others" are. they certainly seem to be independent of mind. You can regard them as objects, coming in and out of your awareness, but why do they interact with you in a seemingly individual way? 
It's the fly in the ointment of dispassion, because, despite that object relationship. If a cup of hot tea spills in your lap then you can remain in a state of Zen, zero mind going on because you have that realisation of none attachment. Seer and seen. The hot tea causes the body to react, pain is felt in a natural, none judgemental way without attachment.
However, if I was to say that you had it all wrong, that you had been on some foolish quest and come back empty handed. Then I guarantee that it will have an effect, the defences will arise, the mind will consider a logical strategy to the argument, or seek to placate in some way. as Bruce Lee said, "objects don't fight back, people do".
there is a definite interaction and we are powerless to stop it. Shut your eyes and people disappear just as surely as objects, yet their effect is uncertain so it's easier to partition them as "others".
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2011 : 05:25:24 AM
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| Karl you are saying that as long as an effect is experienced then the experiencer and experienced (objects-others)are still present |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2011 : 06:15:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
Karl you are saying that as long as an effect is experienced then the experiencer and experienced (objects-others)are still present
I was relying on you to let me know
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2011 : 09:10:34 AM
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quote:
they interact with you in a seemingly individual way?
there is nothing personal...so if someone tells me i am on a foolish quest..and my defenses arise then my quest is still green
the not green seeker shuts his eyes not in order to escape others but in order to realize their nonexistence and his nonexistence too
mad talk |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2011 : 10:43:35 AM
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If you opened your eyes and nothing was there, then that would be a great surprise.
All that can be proven is that when you are conscious the world is conscious. It won't stop interacting because of that knowledge.
Neither can thoughts be stopped or prevented except during total unconsciousness or death. The proof of that is that the world interacts, its dynamic. These dynamics are proof of thought, even when the mind appears quiet, still the perception endures and so thought must be continuing. QED.
We are interacting because that's the nature of things. Thought runs deep, not on the surface where it can be identified. As long as we are conscious we are thinking, the very act of consciousness is thinking.
Is there a cup before the thought of a cup? Then the world is like that.
Of course we know this, we are steeped in that understanding, but knowing it, does not allow us to undo it. Instead it allows us to act and think in harmony.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2011 : 12:25:08 PM
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If you opened your eyes and nothing was there, then that would be a great surprise.
All that can be proven is that when you are conscious the world is conscious. It won't stop interacting because of that knowledge.
Neither can thoughts be stopped or prevented except during total unconsciousness or death. The proof of that is that the world interacts, its dynamic. These dynamics are proof of thought, even when the mind appears quiet, still the perception endures and so thought must be continuing. QED.
We are interacting because that's the nature of things. Thought runs deep, not on the surface where it can be identified. As long as we are conscious we are thinking, the very act of consciousness is thinking.
Is there a cup before the thought of a cup? Then the world is like that.
Of course we know this, we are steeped in that understanding, but knowing it, does not allow us to undo it. Instead it allows us to act and think in harmony.
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what seer? what seen?
