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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 07 2011 : 12:16:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke
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Comparing different systems may not be a good idea and not every system needs to fall in line with the Buddhist methods. It will be interesting to know how DM compares though especially as Patanjali’s Dharana and Dhyana fit well with the Buddhist Concentration and Insight practices.
- Near
Hi Near, :)
I see very little difference between Buddhist Concentrative practices and Patanjali's Sutras. Both require tremendous effort and discipline and sustained concentration.
The thing I appreciate about most Buddhist texts about meditation (The Dalai Lama, Allan B Wallace, Ajahn Brahm, Kelsang Gyatso, Khenpo Karthar) is that they all describe the stages (or afflictions) that one must deal with when developing one-pointed concentration through meditation.
There are The Five Hinderances.
link: http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebmed051.htm
quote:
The major obstacles to successful meditation and liberating insight take the form of one or more of the Five Hindrances. The whole practice leading to Enlightenment can be well expressed as the effort to overcome the Five Hindrances, at first suppressing them temporarily in order to experience Jhana and Insight, and then overcoming them permanently through the full development of the Noble Eightfold Path.
So, what are these Five Hindrances? They are:
KAMACCHANDA : Sensory Desire
VYAPADA : Ill Will
THINA-MIDDHA: Sloth and Torpor
UDDHACCA-KUKKUCCA : Restlessness and Remorse
VICIKICCHA : Doubt
Or this one:
link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/...heel026.html
quote:
Unshakable deliverance of the mind is the highest goal in the Buddha's doctrine. Here, deliverance means: the freeing of the mind from all limitations, fetters, and bonds that tie it to the Wheel of Suffering, to the Circle of Rebirth. It means: the cleansing of the mind of all defilements that mar its purity; the removing of all obstacles that bar its progress from the mundane (lokiya) to the supramundane consciousness (lokuttara-citta), that is, to Arahatship.
Many are the obstacles which block the road to spiritual progress, but there are five in particular which, under the name of hindrances (nivarana), are often mentioned in the Buddhist scriptures:
1.Sensual desire (kamacchanda),
2.Ill-will (byapada),
3.Sloth and torpor (thina-middha),
4.Restlessness and remorse (uddhacca-kukkucca),
5.Sceptical doubt (vicikiccha).
So how does that relate?
I found this just now:
link: http://transcendental-meditation-ho...-and-tm.html
quote:
Definitely TM induces and extremely relaxing state of body and mind, but it induces mental fogginess. From a Buddhist point of view it is basically training in mental sinking which is a state of meditative concentration in which we have hold on the object of meditation but in which our clarity of it is fading. Mental sinking is a form of faulty concentration and yet is the essence of the practice of TM.
Really? Here is more on mental sinking. (is this the fading of the DM mantra?)
link: http://books.google.ca/books?id=Oix...king&f=false
It says that gross mental sinking occurs when:
quote:
...both the intensity and the clarity diminish.
These obstacles, mental wandering, mental excitement, and mental sinking, must all be overcome if we are to attain actual tranquil abiding.
Also, most buddhist and zen instructions on meditation say that one must keep the spine straight and not resting on a backrest. According to them, resting the back promotes dullness and sleep.
Yet, in DM, we rest the back.
link: http://www.aypsite.org/13.html
quote:
Find a quiet, comfortable place where you can sit, preferably with back support.
Doesn't resting the back during meditation also interfere with the udana prana current that helps keep the body upright, that is used for levitation and is attributed to reasons why the yogis and saints can walk on water?
DM appears to be on the super-easy end of the spectrum, which is why it is so seductive and Buddhist meditation appears to be downright hard and disciplined. Doesn't it?
:)
TI |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2011 : 2:56:57 PM
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Hi TI,
quote:
Also, most buddhist and zen instructions on meditation say that one must keep the spine straight and not resting on a backrest. According to them, resting the back promotes dullness and sleep.
Yet, in DM, we rest the back.
A back support is recommended for beginners in AYP Just as it is for beginners in Buddhist practice, but once you are comfortable practising with back support, it is recommended that you give it up and learn to support yourself. This is very important in Yoga, both practically, and metaphorically.
As for the 5 hindrances, yes, those are things that will come up during your yoga practice, and which you will need to overcome.
The most important thing, or you could say, the only important thing, is to choose a path (any path) and practice it consistently and diligently to the end. Any path will get you there, but you have to choose one and stick to it. At the moment you are still spiritual window shopping.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Dec 07 2011 2:58:21 PM |
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chit-ananda51
India
127 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2011 : 10:43:00 PM
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Hi TI
Your study on comparative meditational practices(Buddhist and everything) is phenomenal. However here in AYP, most of the people visit the lessons/forum look for a practice that is simple and can provide stable results in the long run. Amazingly, the techniques given here worked for many and works for me. It is all that matters at the end of the day. A life filled with love and sharing. If we are missing something in this lifetime, the grace which brought us this far will lead us even more now or in the days to come.
Intellectual expositions on 'not' using back-support or how DM works or how it has another practice flavour does not matter - no matter how much mentally titillating. I agree that you have an in-depth understanding of wide spectrum of esoteric practices and I respect your views.
All that I feel is these discussions should not put a new soul coming into this forum for simple solutions and question the teachings presented here. Yogani has made huge efforts to keep his lessons simple without discussing his personal experiences too much for a reason. By this time, he had the wisdom to understand that each individual is unique(karmically) and what works for one may NOT work for another(this can even be shared). But what is discussed above - before trying them out for min. 5-10 years is not that acceptable. It is upto them to choose.
Even if I tried AYP for 10-15 years and it did not work for me, I will not post here saying that it won't work(for the reasons already stated above). Its again me! Just felt like pouring it.
P.S : Normally I don't like to discuss much on what's on paper unless it is tried and tested in the course of life. |
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Amfreenow
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2011 : 7:59:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by chit-ananda51
Hi TI
All that I feel is these discussions should not put a new soul coming into this forum for simple solutions and question the teachings presented here. Yogani has made huge efforts to keep his lessons simple without discussing his personal experiences too much for a reason. By this time, he had the wisdom to understand that each individual is unique(karmically) and what works for one may NOT work for another(this can even be shared). But what is discussed above - before trying them out for min. 5-10 years is not that acceptable. It is upto them to choose.
While I understand that the forums are directed towards the majority of people who are practicing the AYP methods, nevertheless, it is my understanding that the Other Systems and Alternate Approaches subforum which is this subforum, is actually to create a discourse outside of the fundamental and very wonderful practices of AYP.
There are many yogis who have benefited immensely from using the AYP practices in some permutation or another as an add on to their previous long term curriculum of yogic and meditational practices. I asm surely one of those, who have enjoyed and benefited from the AYP discussions and programs. But for the more experienced mature yogi, we are not easily impressionable types, because we have already evolved prior to AYP, so it is a wonderful apportunity Yogani has allowed us to speak about Other Systems and Alternate Approaches, in a spirit of spiritual tolerance and in a spirit of common goals and of sharing, just in case someone might be interested.
And though Yogani does not talk about his personal past history, as to whether he was in Kriya Yoga or whatever, he has written a novel about someone who does go through a spiritual awakening with all the experiences and pitfalls, that must have been his experiences and pitfalls too, or he wouldn´t have known about them.
I didn´t really come on line today to say any of this, but thought it might be good to do so a moment ago. I´m on vacation in sunny Mexico and wanted to just say a few words about my practices today.
I sat in the sun, in the central plaza in this small town, with eye lids closed, and did my variations of spinal breathing. As the sun hit my closed eyelids, I felt Ajna awareness light right up, and the sunlight then filtered through to the base of the brain that is the actual Ajna center from the actual physical eyeballs, to the pineal gland at the brainstem level. That also lit up, and kundalini energy swept up from the bottoms of my feet, up both legs to the chakra centers lighting up the entire system all the way on up. I did the following with this, while also feeling the entire system overall:
As I often like to do, I traced awareness and energy moving up with in breath, moving from Muladhara up and moving towards the left, to 2nd chakra, then swerving to the right towards 3rd chakra, then piercing that, swerving left up through Anahata, then swerving right piercing Throat chakra, then spiraling up through Ajna, then into Crown chakra. A variation on this is to move awareness a la spinal breathing same as above variant, but this time over and over feel the awareness move up to the right from Throat to Ajna on the inbreath, then moving down from Ajna to Throat on exhalation on the left, then moving up to Ajna on the inbreath, then down to Throat on exhalation, and so on. This all took around twenty minutes. This is a couple variations I found useful while allowing the sunlight to filter through closed eyelids. My opinion is that we should be free to follow our intuition to allow energy to circulate freely, not be afraid, but to be in a state of celebration of life, and do a freestyle series of intuitively guided practice variants if we so choose. Be playful with the life force, let{s enjoy it while we can. Hope this helps. |
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chit-ananda51
India
127 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2011 : 10:20:34 PM
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Hi Amfreenow
I just read between the lines of TI's post. Nothing more.  |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2011 : 09:01:39 AM
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Hi Amfreenow,
Thank you for sharing. Enjoy the beautiful sun, beach, weather and circulating energy. As you said, as with everything in life, energy should be enjoyed.
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Amfreenow
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2011 : 8:02:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by chit-ananda51
Hi Amfreenow
I just read between the lines of TI's post. Nothing more.
I know what you mean chit anandaji. I agree with you too on that reading. A lot of good energy can be wasted on irrelevant commentary that borders on unwise speech, since it can be a distraction for the speaker. thank you. |
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chit-ananda51
India
127 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2011 : 11:53:27 PM
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Hi Amfreenow
quote:
A lot of good energy can be wasted on irrelevant commentary that borders on unwise speech
Why did you add that 'ji' - my Indian nativity?  I'm much younger than all you people in this forum. |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2011 : 01:17:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
The most important thing, or you could say, the only important thing, is to choose a path (any path) and practice it consistently and diligently to the end. Any path will get you there, but you have to choose one and stick to it.
Christi
I absolutely agree.
Thank you for clarifying a few issues that were very significant questions for me.
With Love
gatito |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2011 : 1:08:27 PM
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Hi Gatito,
You're welcome. |
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