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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 04 2011 : 4:58:47 PM
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My long term partner and I have recently decided to separate due to life circumstances. This may or may not be temporary.
Regardless, I feel compelled to clear out the attachment that I have formed with her. If you believe in the term, we are 'soulmates' so I have really developed an attachment to going through life with this person.
In past relationships, it was easy for me to remain unattached to the present situation. With this relationship, however, I realize now that I was very attached to the circumstance of us being together.
The idea of ever falling in love like this again does not appeal to me, even if it were possible, because I couldn't bear to go through this level of grief again.
It almost seems as if 'true love' relationships are an impediment to yoga then.
Has anyone here had experience with this type of situation before that could shed more light on this?
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2011 : 5:28:42 PM
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I can't help, but there is something different in that close partnership which seems to stand apart from everything else we do in practises There is a tremendous strength in a trusting, loving relationship, particularly where things are well balanced and equal.
It was so with Adam and Eve, the Bible says the female is the rib of the male and marriage is sanctified. What does that mean, I can't even begin to guess. Yet I know there is something even if I can't grasp exactly what. Even Gurus in courage their advanced students to get married and attend to life.
My wife been a fantastic support and I have tried to be equally supportive of her. Right there are the marriage vows in action. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2011 : 9:44:23 PM
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Thanks for your thoughts Karl.
What I understand from you post is that you think an exquisite, loving relationship uplifts the spirit, our progress and our practices rather than hinders them. Is that right?
I would have always agreed. However, now that our relationship is over I see that I developed an attachment to this person, in spite of efforts to the contrary. The primary attachment rising from the rarity of this level of relationship in a lifetime.
Being imperfect, can we ever have intense and beautiful relationships without creating attachments? |
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Pheel
China
318 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2011 : 9:56:43 PM
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Hi Tonight,
I don't know if what I say here is of any help, but in this kind of situation, admitting even embracing the attachment is usually much better than fighting, preventing, resisting it. As long as you witness your attachment, it will gradually dissolve, it just takes time. There's nothing wrong developing an attachment in a beautiful relationship--and of course, there are always lessons following it. And take it easy and slow--allowing some "buffering" time.
Much love to you bro!
Pheel |
Edited by - Pheel on Nov 04 2011 9:58:55 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2011 : 10:25:43 PM
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Hi Philaboston, thank you for your words.
That is a good way to put it. I suppose when we sign up for life we are signing up for some level of suffering despite our efforts.
I am working toward letting this attachment go. It's difficult because I have very little doubt that she was "the one." We both hope that we can be together in the not too distant future, but it is our paths pulling us apart and not our hearts.
I feel as if the yogic process is pulling us apart because of the attachments, like the relationship was keeping me from being fully invested in god... and in that case I wonder if it is possible for me to have an meaningful relationships in the future? I do not think i will ever fully recover from this, just as one would not ever fully recover from any ultra traumatic experience.
I guess that sounds kind of strange, but still I suppose it's what i've been feeling. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2011 : 03:07:03 AM
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quote:
I feel as if the yogic process is pulling us apart because of the attachments, like the relationship was keeping me from being fully invested in god...
was your partner into yoga? |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2011 : 08:11:29 AM
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Darling, darling Tonight,
You are so blessed and you are complaining! I am laughing and crying for you at the same time. You have been blessed with a big big love and you wish to wish it away???! Because it's not going smoothly now? You are suffering deeply, I understand - Use that! That's the greatest source of Bhakti. Suffering. I have experienced my greatest spiritual experiences when I was suffering the most and it was because of my Soulmate. Rant and rave at God/the Universe; turn that heart-wrenching craving into a craving for that and get your bum onto your meditation cushion 2x daily. Then you can talk about Love. The fact that I love one person unconditionally gives me hope that I can love all persons unconditionally.
Accept the curve ball and good luck !
Sey
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2011 : 09:26:00 AM
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quote:
The fact that I love one person unconditionally gives me hope that I can love all persons unconditionally.
true...i used to love a married man ...nothing happened b/w us not even a kiss because first he is married and married men never leave their wives and second we used to work at the same place....so we decided (this was also for my best interest)to avoid a relation cause there will be a mess later on...now he works abroad....
it was a big learning experience for me and it influenced positively my present relations with men,i learned that if i love one person i can love everybody,everything,every animal,every insect.....in my current relations with men i learned that if love is returned and consumed then very well...if love is NOT returned or NOT consumed then very well too....i will keep on loving that person and this love (condtional love,with little l) will be a training for me to learn to Love (unconditional Love with big L).....whatever the outcome of the relation,whether it lasts or not,i am grateful cause the seeds of unconditional Love are sprouting and being nurtured....i am grateful cause i can feel Love... without the feeling of uncondtional Love how can the spritual journey unfold? ....THAT Loves all of creation unconditionally and this what we are learning too
Love
maheswari |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2011 : 11:23:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Thanks for your thoughts Karl.
What I understand from you post is that you think an exquisite, loving relationship uplifts the spirit, our progress and our practices rather than hinders them. Is that right?
Being imperfect, can we ever have intense and beautiful relationships without creating attachments?
The words you use are intense and beautiful. It suggests some difference in your attitude towards your partner.
Just as 'attachment' or 'living in the moment' get distorted. Attachment does not mean remoteness, it means the opposite. Without fear (fear of rejection, self worth, damaged ego) we are free to love unconditionally and are unafraid to get involved and this includes a partner.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2011 : 1:30:05 PM
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Hi tonightsthenight
I went through something that sounds really similar about 5 or 6 years ago. I was in a relationship for about 8 years with a girl I considered my 'soulmate.' The breakup was so hard for me and having to "start all over again" felt so daunting that I wanted to push restart on reality. The day we officially broke up for good was the day I tried to commit suicide. Talk about attachment! 
For me, this was actually the turning point in my life. It was just a few (very hard) days after the failed suicide attempt that I had my first taste of samadhi/peace/bliss and everything changed. I wasn't doing any meditation at the time, but it was this experience that lead me to seek it out. Basically I would credit the breakup for spurring me into seeking out how to find lasting inner peace.
I would echo others here who are saying that this time in your life is a great opportunity. It is very hard I know, but from struggle comes opening (in my experience). For me it always seems to work like this: something "bad" happens, and it causes a great deal of suffering. I fight and fight and fight, never really making any significant headway, then I give up fighting it, and things naturally change/open. Using the breakup as an example, I could say that losing my partner caused me a great deal of suffering because I wanted to be with her still (even though it was me who ended it). I wanted things to be different so badly that I would rather die then continue as things were. Over the three days post suicide attempt I fought reality so hard that it absolutely broke me. It was in the breaking of my personal will, it was in the letting go of trying to make things be different then they were, that the shift happened.
So, my advice to you would be to try and stop fighting, try and let go of the belief that she was "the one." She may well indeed have been "the one" but that doesn't change the way things are right NOW. You can fight to make things different, you can believe that you will never find another woman that you can relate to on the same level you did with your last partner, but fighting against and believing this will only cause more suffering and only make it harder to move forward. In my experience, it is only when we let go of the past that we are free to move forward. (Or, I guess it would be more accurate to say that it is only in letting go of the past/future, that we are free to be here now.)
Not sure if this will be helpful for you at all, but I thought I would chime in and let you know that I know how challenging what you are going through is, and that my heart goes out to both of you. May you find some peace with it all soon.
Love!
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2011 : 2:50:58 PM
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| That's an inspirational post and a classic case of the surrendering of individual will. Thanks for being so open CarsonZi, usually these circumstances arise in near death experiences, this is a much more down to Earth and something that is easy to relate to and has helped me answer a question. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2011 : 3:36:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
In my experience, it is only when we let go of the past that we are free to move forward. (Or, I guess it would be more accurate to say that it is only in letting go of the past/future, that we are free to be here now.)
Love!
Definitely worth repeating. Thanks.
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2011 : 7:09:59 PM
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maheswari: thank you for sharing. no, she does not practice yoga.
SeySorciere: thank you for that perspective. yes, i am very blessed to have found such a big love. finding her was a revelation. i have been very diligent in trying to use this as an opportunity to deepen my practice, and i do know (and have known from the moment we decided this) that this is an auspicious time for me. thanks again, it's obvious that you have had a similar experience in the past.
karl: thank you again for your words. you hit the nail on the head about this: freedom. it dovetails with carson's and seysorciere's posts, in that we must be able to fully let go of our apparent control over life and relationships. i really need to let go fully, and it is difficult... i have yet to find a way to fully let go even for a moment.
carson: thank you for sharing your own experience. i do need to let go, completely. my understanding is that there is something present in my subconscious, not in my conscious awareness, that is holding me back from fully letting go. and it is not limited to this one person, i believe that something is keeping me from fully letting go and fully embracing the unity that will lead me further on my path.
i sincerely want to fully let go, i don't want to kill myself. you are right that i need to stop repeating beliefs to myself, such as "she is the one." i do have reason to believe this to be true, but keeping those beliefs in my head will only lead to suffering.
the reason we decided on this was because our live's circumstances were not changing, despite our efforts. the decision itself is a form of letting go. it was a surrender, because our love was not enough.
i hope that the universal consciousness takes notice of our courage, and our efforts to actively surrender. there isn't anything left for me to give up.
thank you all for sharing :) |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2011 : 08:27:53 AM
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When you say 'give up' you seem to expect something in return. You would like the universal consciousness to notice your sacrifice. This isn't surrender, it is exchange. Try and notice that because it is what is preventing you surrendering. Your surrender is conditional and that is not surrender.
Carson had an experience which allowed this to happen. I had a similar experience where I became consumed with fear and anxiety and realised that it was no use trying to suppress it. Instead I let it have me. I saw it was easier to let it do it's worst and it felt like I would die and I was willing to. Once the fire had burned itself out nothing remained, it was a lie. Something so terrible that had to be suppressed was a lie, it gained strength by being unrealised, it lurked in the shadows taunting me. This is giving up entirely, realising that you cannot cope with the internal deceit anymore and that you would rather face it head on and if death or madness was the price, then it was worth paying to be free of it.
Be brave, it isn't the giving up of things, it is the total acceptance of things. That is unconditional love, to accept something totally despite the potential to cause you suffering and pain. To embrace the hated, to love the fear in you. Nothing negative can survive in that light, no shadow can remain and the illusion you harbour is exposed for the lie it is. Where love is, fear is not and you are truly free. |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2011 : 09:13:35 AM
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Great post karl.
Tonightsthenight, As many spiritual teachers say, it is not the reality but our mind stories and thoughts about it that hurt us. Accepting things as they are means not expecting them to be different and letting life take its course by accepting our powerlessness. Life will anyway do what it wants to whether the little ego in us is for or against it.
I would suggest to inquire into the thoughts/stories that cause this pain. Dont look for answers or explanations from the mind. They will satisfy but only temporarily and it will be a self-deceit. Just like doing samyama, just inquire and let the answers come from the silence. When you say "She is the one", how can that be true for all of your life? how can you deny the possibility of meeting someone else in the future like that? Time is a great healer.
Again Accepting reality as it is doesnt mean you need to say to yourself "I shouldn't be in pain". No. You being in pain is also part of what is happening and it is important to accept that part of your experience too. The only thing true about the pain is the pain you are experiencing physically in your heart or elsewhere in your body. That definitely is there and it is important to accept it without pushing it away. The thoughts about what happened or shouldnt have happened will only feed that pain. As many spiritual teachers say, none of our thoughts are true. None. It is believing our thoughts that hurts us. It is not the reality but our thoughts/beliefs/opinions that hurt us.
Give it time. Stick to practices.
- Near |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2011 : 11:46:44 AM
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Karl, thank you for the perspective.
I didn't mean to convey a sense of exchange rather than surrender but i can see your point.
I will try to fully surrender without a sense of receiving anything in return.
nearoanoke: thanks for you words.
I am trying to accept this reality fully, and not live through the mind during this time.
This is more difficult than i would have imagined, because after several weeks i still experience waves severe pain and grief, and phases of total despondency. I have experienced uncommon pain and trauma in my life, but this is a new level.
You are right that i do not know that she is "the one." One cannot know anything like that. However, from several months before our meeting, I intuited that i would meet the woman of my dreams, and there were signs everywhere, constantly. it was an auspicious time and it was clear that i would meet this person i had (literally) had dreams and premonitions about since i was very young.
Sometime after our meeting, there was a simple moment with her in which the awe was only rivaled in my life by my initial awakening. I "knew" then, not with the mind, but with true knowledge.
I don't deny the possibility of being satisfied in that way again, however, my intuition, and not the mind, tells me that. Time is a great healer, but one does not fully recover from traumas like this. Wounds like this persist until the end of your life, and yes, they might become sources of strength instead of weakness, but time does not 'heal all wounds." |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2011 : 12:03:11 PM
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No one said it would be easy. The pain is attached to a story, the story is about the future.
However, throwing a drowning man a text book on swimming isn't always helpful in the short term.
I feel your pain and loss, I will share it. It is all I can offer. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2011 : 12:28:28 PM
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I laughed out loud when i read your comment about throwing a drowning man a swimming book
You make another great point about the pain being attached to a story about the future. Though a lot of the pain is simply grief.
In reference to your prior point about surrendering in exchange for something, rather than capitulating to one's sentence... i am fulling ready to do that. There is not one thing remaining in my life that i value or fear to lose. I just need to figure out how to do that  |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2011 : 5:52:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight There is not one thing remaining in my life that i value or fear to lose. I just need to figure out how to do that
Accept that you cannot figure it out. Surrender the illusion of control.
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2011 : 6:06:49 PM
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I was also with a woman who was my "soulmate", or, in Hebrew, my "bashert", literally, "intended for one another by God". We met when we were 15 years old, married when we were 22, and were together until her death from cancer when she was 54. You want attachment, pain, loss, grief? Try that one on for size. Not to diminish the feelings of anyone else, but this is what human life is about--the Buddha told us that we would suffer, and then, through our suffering, learn non-attachment and come to a cessation of suffering. The main point is that we are to utilize emotional pain as a lesson, an opportunity to evolve and grow spiritually. Otherwise, we have suffered without growth, wasting a great and valuable opportunity for spiritual evolution. That is the real shame, the real loss, suffering without cause or gain. We suffer in order to learn how not to suffer. My time of mourning for my wife was a time of tumultuous change--and the acceptance of those changes is what began to end my period of suffering. I eventually fell in love again, and had a difficult time resolving how to feel regarding my new love versus my loss. I asked the rabbi if one could have two "basherts" in one lifetime, if this was allowed by God, if it was possible or proper, or was I just on a misguided mission to replace my loss with someone new. I was assured that I WAS permitted to fall in love again, be happy, find a soulmate and be loved. Change is difficult, and resisting change causes suffering--we resist change because of our attachments, after all. A door closes. Look around for another door to open--then go through that door and greet what is on the other side...
Michael |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2011 : 7:14:38 PM
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Thank you for sharing that Michael... i'm sorry to hear about your loss.
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2011 : 8:38:03 PM
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Dear tonightsthenight
Grief happens just like everything happens. It arises and it subsides. When it arises to the extent that it is arising for you, it seems like it will never, ever subside. I am truly sorry that you are going through this. It hurts like Hell to the extent that it can feel that something has physically broken inside you.
However, the good news is that it will eventually subside like everything else that appears. The bad news is that if you push it away it seems to give it strength. Feel it fully and know that it isn't you, it appears to you.
The grief is not you because it comes and it goes. What you are is constant, the Silence which is Knowing this grief.
Rest in what you are as much as possible and keep your practice as constant as you are able.
Nothing can impede the Silence and It always answers the call.
With Love
gatito
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2011 : 11:57:34 PM
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Karl - I always find your posts a source of inspiration - thank you.
Tonight - people telling you to surrender will not make it happen;telling yourself with your mind to surrender will not make it happen. 2x daily meditation will do that...eventually. People telling you she is not the one, it's all stories in your mind; what do they know? There are stories in your mind and stories in your Soul (past lives?). If you feel it at Soul level, then don't try to tell yourself otherwise - that leads to further struggling with reality. Accept that she is indeed the one (but leave yourself open to the idea that she is possibly not the ONLY one), love her with all of who you are and joyously accept this loving. Does Love have to diminish in the absence of the person loved? All of this pain will not resolve itself overnight.
I am curious though as to why you identify her as your Soulmate. Same question goes to others who talk of Soulmates - cautiously I notice - because it does not appear to fit within the Oneness image.
Sey |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2011 : 06:57:54 AM
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quote:
There is not one thing remaining in my life that i value or fear to lose.
everything,everything that you think you have....was in fact given to you...it was never truly yours...stripping all these layers what remains is a no-thing....THAT which you are is a no-thing which is paradoxically everything
quote:
Surrender the illusion of control.
@ Karl...did you see this?.....originally posted in the forums by Ananda
http://www.youtube.com/user/francislucillevideos
i like your posts a lot
@mikkijji.. thx for sharing...life goes on |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2011 : 07:28:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
I am curious though as to why you identify her as your Soulmate. Same question goes to others who talk of Soulmates - cautiously I notice - because it does not appear to fit within the Oneness image.
Sey
In what way does it seem not to fit? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2011 : 07:44:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
Surrender the illusion of control.
@ Karl...did you see this?.....originally posted in the forums by Ananda
http://www.youtube.com/user/francislucillevideos
Yes. I have learned that words don't mean communication.
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Long Term Relationship & Yoga
