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Pheel
China
318 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 02 2011 : 9:15:46 PM
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Hi everyone,
I finally read Greg Baer's Real Love. And it just clarify so much of the confusion here. I recognized that despite all the good results I have derived from DM, I still do Imitation Love most of the time. The only time that I received, and perhaps gave, some Real Love are actually in the three AYP retreats I attended. (Thank you all my dears!!!) Back into my normal life, I feel I have a strong tendency to love people, BUT:
whenever I felt my love is blocked, refused, ignored, I still felt uneasiness. It varies from a second's notice to a very unpleasant discomfort (especially when romantic love is involved), and at times, I winced back, feeling too insecure to love. This shows, according to Baer, that I still have lots of expectations and am afraid of not being loved, which are signs of conditional love.
I know this is probably a phase of learning love genuinely, but if you have similar experience, or have walked through this phase, please share your experience and enlighten those still groping around like me!Many thanks!
I want to free myself completely to love unconditionally! I have all the bhakti now, Life, please tell me what to do!
Phil |
Edited by - Pheel on Nov 02 2011 9:46:42 PM |
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Swan
India
256 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2011 : 11:04:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Philaboston
Hi everyone,
whenever I felt my love is blocked, refused, ignored, I still felt uneasiness. It varies from a second's notice to a very unpleasant discomfort (especially when romantic love is involved), and at times, I winced back, feeling too insecure to love. This shows, according to Baer, that I still have lots of expectations and am afraid of not being loved, which are signs of conditional love.
Phil
Hi Phil,
I think I have gone through this at times. What worked for me is just loving for the sake of love, and stop analyzing what happened with it or what people did with it. My part is loving and I am there for it.
Besides, if somebody has rejected genuine love from anybody, it's a pity for who rejected it and not for who loved, cause they may not know how much they needed it, or could make out of it. On the other hand, it could be our expectation in a package of love, which we are not aware about, but the person on the other side may feel that something is missing. Then may be it was for good!
I would say, keep loving (include yourself also - it's a must) without expecting or analyzing. Once you have set the target of unconditional love, frictions you experience are only to purify yourself further.
Lots of Love  |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 12:43:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Philaboston
whenever I felt my love is blocked, refused, ignored, I still felt uneasiness. It varies from a second's notice to a very unpleasant discomfort (especially when romantic love is involved), and at times, I winced back, feeling too insecure to love. This shows, according to Baer, that I still have lots of expectations and am afraid of not being loved, which are signs of conditional love.
Hi Phil,
Do you think the discomfort, insecurity, etc., could be a sort of constriction coming from fear? Do you think it is possible that in these situations, there are thoughts occurring to you, and when they are believed, the unpleasant feelings come up? Maybe it's not that your love is being refused, but that a part of you is afraid of unconditional love and the infinite within. I've experienced this many times. Whenever I am experiencing fear, the only thing I can do is let go/surrender/relax/do nothing.
You might try introverting your attention and relaxing into awareness/beingness/stillness/presence/silence. This way you can be more aware in love. Or, maybe you want to be joyful now. Relax and release "joy" into silence. Pow! Joy! But don't worry about when you're just not feeling it, it is still the essence of your being. You can't lose it. Be however you are being and accept yourself completely. Be at ease and let it flow. |
Edited by - chas on Nov 03 2011 12:52:18 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 08:05:42 AM
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Thanks Phil,
I like your insight. I am interested in those moments of wincing back. Clearly there is something conditional going on there.
Like when a mother cow knows when it is time to wean her calf, she will kick the calf in the face when the calf goes to her utter for milk. The calf winces back. The calf learns to stop doing that.
I think of my mother (and mother figures) as being like that. She winces back at my attempts to connect. In return, I wince back at her attempts to connect. So it is we are in a conditional relationship, both wincing back. Ouch. It hurts.
This is a problem. The solution, of course, is to welcome the conditions. Welcome, welcome. In finding the strength, and wisdom to welcome, problematic conditions become an opportunity to grow to maturity.
Easier said than done? Easier done that said?
Time for my morning sit |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 2:04:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Philaboston
I want to free myself completely to love unconditionally! I have all the bhakti now, Life, please tell me what to do!
Hi Phil
That is in essence what this whole game is about, isn't it? To free ourselves enough to love unconditionally
It is true that the "love" most of us experience is largely conditional, even the love parents have for their children [to some extent]. However, as Baer explains, a lot of this has to do with self-judgment and/or self-loathing. Which is why learning to love oneself is the first step on this "path" of learning to love others.
Becoming aware of the self-deprecating model was the first step for me, and this was excruciatingly painful. To look at oneself under the magnifying lens of inner silence is not easy, particularly at these self-defeating patterns - how my mind flies to conclusions when someone doesn't respond the way *I* think they should, the emotions that thought brings up, the shoulds, should nots, etc etc . The next thing to do is to bathe oneself in compassion . Somehow, it is so much easier to extend compassion to others than to ourselves, at least in my case . My experience (albeit limited) is that the "unconditional love" part of this whole thing seems to happen automatically when I'm more compassionately accepting of myself..
This is something I've been dealing with lately as well . I'm finding that when I consciously favor silence over whatever else is going on, the thoughts/emotions are let go of on increasingly subtler levels - samyama 
I don't think there is any particular "technique" to love unconditionally - rather, it is a state of being; and that happens as the Silence expands to include others in it.. Just my two midafternoon cents
Much love to you,
kami |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 2:09:29 PM
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Looks like you've caught my "emoticon bug" Kami!
Love!
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 2:18:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
Somehow, it is so much easier to extend compassion to others than to ourselves, at least in my case . My experience (albeit limited) is that the "unconditional love" part of this whole thing seems to happen automatically when I'm more compassionately accepting of myself..
I don't think there is any particular "technique" to love unconditionally - rather, it is a state of being; and that happens as the Silence expands to include others in it.. Just my two midafternoon cents
Much love to you,
kami
Outpouring of divine love.
Sweet!!!!
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 2:31:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Philaboston
whenever I felt my love is blocked, refused, ignored, I still felt uneasiness. It varies from a second's notice to a very unpleasant discomfort (especially when romantic love is involved), and at times, I winced back, feeling too insecure to love. This shows, according to Baer, that I still have lots of expectations and am afraid of not being loved, which are signs of conditional love.
I know this is probably a phase of learning love genuinely,
Phil, what you have written above is more than what many people realize in a lifetime. So you are doing really well. Being aware of that discomfort, any time it comes up acknowledging (looking into it) it and then letting it go and at the same time being kind to yourself... bit by bit it will fall away.
This is really a process of un-learning than learning... and it requires a lot of courage, as you have to be true to yourself, and that can be really hard... but the end result is oh so worth it.
You are doing great Phil.
Wish you all the best. |
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Pheel
China
318 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 2:57:46 PM
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First of all, Thank you all for the warm love!!! As Baer sees, when one has tasted unconditional love, even just a bit, he/she would be brave enough to practice unconditional love. And here the love is so much more than a bit--it just carries me forward into more loving!!! My heart rejoices at your love--and I give my love to you all! (it was a very recent phenomenon, pretty much after the PA retreat, that I start to say "love" to people. Before that, even Shweta and Carson and others would say "love" to me, I never replied with "love", because I still couldn't feel it going out. But now I do:)
Kami, yes, sometimes I share the same tendency: that I want to progress in love/yoga so much that I forget to accept and love myself unconditionally. When I did progress, I self confirm; when not, I start to analyze and then do something to improve. But the right thing to do is non other than not doing anything, simply accepting it all, and accepting myself whether it winces back or goes forward. And this is why Shweta you always shew up and said the right thing: "You are doing great, Phil" The effect is making it so much easier to accept myself and accept it all. A lot of times, I feel I'm (maybe we all are) children:P
@ Swan, thank you for your love! I could feel it last night. And you are right, I have a tendency to analyze, partially because I'm in the academia. I think too much:(
@ Chas, you really again Sweetened it up, bro! The inversion is a great reminder for those moments!
@Bewell, Thanks for sharing the cow story and your own experience with your mom. I was beaten by my parents when I didn't behave. So I'm going thro the same process. But it seems as long as my vide is warmer, my parents will correspondingly become softer, without me doing anything.
@ Carson, I love you:)
It seems that I just need to continue to practice and everything will naturally evolve without me doing anything.
Love:)
Pheel |
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Pheel
China
318 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 3:16:08 PM
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Hi Bewell,
to answer your questions: to me it's easier done than thought--whenever I fell into thinking if I should love or not, should do this to show the love or that, or evaluate the effects of the "love", whenever I sunk into the mental realm, Real Love is virtually impossible. And those moments I gave big smiles to strangers, I'd done it without thinking at all. This is probably why Swan told me to stop analyzing. Sorry for hijacking your question:) |
Edited by - Pheel on Nov 03 2011 3:17:10 PM |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 4:06:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Looks like you've caught my "emoticon bug" Kami!
Love!
Carson,
Figured it was time I caught *something* from you!!  
Love you! |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 4:13:03 PM
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Well, better my "Emoticon bug" then my "F-Bomb bug"!!!  |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 9:53:53 PM
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Namaste Pheeeeel
I'm happy you're gaining insight into yourself from Real Love. It's a good book and it pointed some wonderful things out to me as well.
This might stray from what Baer teaches (at least in language), but I experience Love as a constant radiance underneath whatever feelings are also happening. There can still be feelings of hurt, rejection, anger, or any other feeling our culture tells us is "Not Love". When such feelings arise, I find it useful to be still and notice the presence of Love. When I do that, the emotion seems to soften and/or dissolve in Love, and something seems to be purified. Using Baer's terms, this would be like Imitation Love burning up in the fire of Real Love.
Love is beyond feeling! Isn't that great?!
You're moving in a beautiful direction and I'm way happy for you.
Tons of LOVE to you, bro!
cosmic |
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Pheel
China
318 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2011 : 12:28:33 AM
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Hi Cosmic,
What can I say before your insight into nonduality and your LOVE? So,
((((((((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((LOVE))))))))))))))))
Keep laughing, btw!!
Pheel |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2011 : 4:22:54 PM
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LOL, will do
May your bhakti illuminate the way for us all! |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2011 : 5:44:23 PM
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Love is only REAL love when it is given with no expectation of anything received in return. When there is expectation, then there is attachment to an outcome, and attachment always leads to disappointment and suffering. I know--it sounds like a very difficult recipe--give with no thought of receiving, that's just impossible... but it's the only route to happiness and fulfillment in the realm of interpersonal relationships, that I know of. Ego is attached to the possibility that your feelings might be reciprocated, but the REAL you is the one with the REAL love--the silent, unbounded, unchanging Self is the only Self who can love. Small "s" self, the false, ever-changing self of the ego, he will always find disappointment... As I have written on my FB page, "True love is not finding the perfect person to love, but loving the imperfect person perfectly..."
Rock on!
Michael
Michael |
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Imitation love
