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Jett
USA
6 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 12:13:41 PM
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Namaste to everyone on the forum. This is my first post here but I've been a lurker for a little over a year now. I'd first like to say a great big "Bless You" to Yogani for making this information available in an easy to understand manner. Your selfless actions are an inspiration. I've been following your practices for about a year now.
My question is for those advanced meditators that are comfortable going to and sustaining Samadhi. I've accidently stumbled into Samadhi 3 times now but am unable to duplicate the actions I took to get there. Probably from not paying attention on the way in as I wasn't expecting to reach Samadhi. I have no problem reaching deep silence but I'm unsure what the next step is after that.
Also, I find it strange that I was able to reach Samadhi before the kundalini had risen. Perhaps that's why there was indifference but no bliss? Anyone have any ideas?
I can be emailed privately if one doesn't want their information made public.
Thanks very much ahead of time for any replies or assistance!
Jett |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 12:15:29 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 1:51:26 PM
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Hi Jett,
Thanks for introducing yourself here and letting us know that you are out there doing AYP.
In response to what you wrote, I first looked up the definition of samadhi in the "Advanced Yoga Practices Glossary of Sanskrit Terms."
Samadhi – Absorption in the inner silence of pure bliss consciousness. The repeated destination of meditation, and, ultimately, a state which is sustained throughout daily living.
What I hear you saying is that through your meditation practice, you easily reach "deep silence," and that, without knowing how you got there, you also have three times experienced another sort of absorption which you characterize as "indifference but no bliss."
I would say that that sort of shift in the quality of your absorption is what we would call "scenery," and that there is no need to try to figure out how to get back to it. Rather, the AYP approach is keep doing practices, keep witnessing, letting go of scenery.
Others who meditate with a sense of deep silence but who have not had a quickening of K energy awareness might have more to say about the particular scenery you have experienced.
Again, thanks for sharing.
Peace
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Jett
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 2:35:57 PM
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Hi there Bewell! Thanks for your response.
I wouldn't characterize Samadhi as scenery. It's a totally different state of consciousness than the other three that we normally experience. It's totally beyond waking, dreaming and sleeping. Silence and bliss are characteristics of Samadhi, Samadhi itself is the actual change of consciousness. Your center of consciousness so to speak. When you enter this state you will DEFINITELY know it. This state is the actual goal in yoga, not just the silence and bliss.
I'm not questioning my experience, I know what it is and it's absolutely not scenery. My question is for advanced meditators that can easily go to and from this state. There is definitely a step after the deep silence. That's the information I'm looking for.
I appreciate your attempt to help. Hope you reach the goal soon!
Namaste! |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 3:55:12 PM
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Hi Jett,
There is a lot of variety in the definition around Samadhi. The "highest" and most common described are Savikalpa and Nirvikalpa. As an example, in Nirvikalpa, there is no mind to even "notice" a feeling. Also, the "witness" state can feel like "indifference" at first. Could you further describe your experience?
Finally, in AYP, bliss is not dependent on Kundalini. Bliss also feels different than Kundalini (or "ecstatic conductivity"). Bliss can be as simple as feeling an "overwhelming sense of peace".
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Jett
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 4:25:17 PM
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Hello Jeff! Thanks for responding.
I would be more than happy to elaborate. I wouldn't say that my mind noticed a feeling of indifference. It was more like I WAS indifference.
To start from the beginning...like I said, I've been doing Yogani's practices for a little over a year. I'm able to reach a level of deep silence very easily and do occasionally have moments of "ecstatic conductivity". In addition to doing the practices, I also study quite a bit of eastern philosophy including ancient Sanskrit literature in depth. I also pray and worship which I'll say in all honesty does more for my spiritual path than anything else besides meditation. I also spend quite a bit of time in contemplation. It's been my experience that disciplining and training the mind to become one-pointed as also been a tremendous help with meditation. This of course requires concentration. This leads to quite a bit of time doing exercise to strengthen the mind to gain concentration skills.
It was during meditation on I AM that I slipped into Samadhi those three times. It was like my consciousness went through the shushumna and then I was wide awake in the dark in a different state of consciousness. It took me by surprise for a second because I didn't understand what had happened. Because of the in depth study I have done on Yoga philosophy, I was able to recognize what had happened. I am very thankful that I have been able to attain a fairly good witnessing state because I was able to "survey the scenery" a little.
The first thing I noticed was that I had no other "feeling" except indifference. I wasn't concerned about anything. Period. At all... I had no awareness of anything in the physical world. I had no desires. None. At all. I was perfectly contented. I could see in all directions without moving. Only it was dark, so there wasn't much to see really. I didn't get an awareness of anything else there. It was like I was the only thing in existence. I've spent a total of around 10 minutes total there in three different visits.
From what I understand from Yoga philosopy, this is a level of Samadhi. And I would really like to get back there. Like I said before, this is the goal of yoga. As a matter of fact, I believe this is the goal of human life.
I like your explanation about bliss. I'll contemplate on that.
Namaste |
Edited by - Jett on Oct 20 2011 4:47:59 PM |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 5:26:11 PM
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Hello Jett,
Welcome to the forums. Experiences are good but making them the end goal doesnt really help in one's path. That's why in AYP all experiences including samadhi are treated as "Scenery" (and that's not discounting them, just making sure we dont get fixated on any). Infact much of what happens to us is through grace and that's why trying to repeat it may not work. We just have to allow divinity to open it through us in its own way.
A reply to someone with lot of experiences:
http://www.aypsite.org/203.html
About Samadhi and other things:
http://www.aypsite.org/248.html
Enjoy the ride!
- Near
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 5:35:41 PM
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Jett,
Thanks for the description. Interesting concept on "feeling indifference". If you don't care, how would you bother to notice that you didn't care...
It is always very hard to judge experiences (that is why AYP doesn't focus on them), but it sounds like you may be describing a form of Savikalpa Samadhi. The fact that you could look around or even think about looking around, helps to define it. Did you think anything like "this is really cool" while you were there? How/why did the experience end?
Also, if you are good with the witness state... Can you watch yourself get angry or irritated during normal daily life?
Have a good evening.
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 5:39:21 PM
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Hey Jett,
It is a beginning stage to slip into Samadhi and then slip back out. It happens to me too. A few wonderful minutes here and there over the last couple years. I take it on faith from Yogani's lessons, and other accounts here on the forums, that continued practices will gradually give increasing permanence to that Samadhi until it becomes a 24/7 experience. In the meantime, every once in a while we get "a glimpse through the clouds." |
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Jett
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 6:26:05 PM
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Thanks for all the responses!
nearoanoke~I think you are misunderstanding. I'm not fixating on scenery, I'm simply explaining my experience and asking for help.
Jeff~good question. But like I said, it was more that I WAS indifference.
I was perfectly capable of thinking and really seemed like I had no emotions at all. The state faded away into a lower consciousness level. And yes, I can watch myself get angry although I don't let myself get angry anymore. It's really more interesting to watch others get angry. Since when we remove the physical body we're all the same, it gives me insights into my own mind. I learned from a good teacher that a minute's worth of anger can destroy a year's worth of meditation.
JDH~Glad to know I'm not the only one. I'm curious, did you have the same experience?
Namaste! |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 7:41:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jett
It's a totally different state of consciousness than the other three that we normally experience. It's totally beyond waking, dreaming and sleeping. Silence and bliss are characteristics of Samadhi, Samadhi itself is the actual change of consciousness. Your center of consciousness so to speak. When you enter this state you will DEFINITELY know it. This state is the actual goal in yoga, not just the silence and bliss.
Oh, ok, thanks for saying more. I might get what you are saying now.
Perhaps when you say "indifference" you are referring to what Yogani calls "dispassion." Have you read Yogani's lesson on evolutionary stages of mind where he describes how to cultivate "dispassion"?
"Deep meditation (if we are doing it) is the primary cultivator of dispassion, because dispassion is an advanced stage of the witness."
http://www.aypsite.org/327.html |
Edited by - bewell on Oct 20 2011 7:44:22 PM |
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Jett
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 8:53:24 PM
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Appreciate the link bewell and I apologize if I was unclear earlier.
As I hadn't read the article by Yogani, I wasn't referring to "dispassion". I have since read the article and can say that I wouldn't call it dispassion. I've had a few episodes of what Yogani is calling dispassion and there's a difference. As I said before, it wasn't feeling so much as being.
Namste and good night! |
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2011 : 11:15:51 PM
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| Yes I have experienced it. As has just about everybody on the forums to varying degrees. Like you said, it is at the core of yoga. Trying to define it with words quickly turns into a wild goose chase. So does trying to take notes about how to get back. Everybody gets their own particular flavor of that samadhi, but ultimately it is the same thing for all of us. The individual flavoring of any experience comes from who we are as individuals, how we view the world as individuals. In the lessons it is called the "unique matrix of obstructions." That state of samadhi is the same for all of us, but it is beyond words. How we slip into and out of that state is our 'matrix of obstructions' and there as many different matrices as there are people in the world. And so there are as many descriptions of samadhi as there are ways to slip in and out of it. But when we're there, none of that can matter. In my experience, ideas such as how I got there, and how to describe it, are usually the first thoughts I have as soon as I've slipped out. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2011 : 1:00:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JDH
Yes I have experienced it. As has just about everybody on the forums to varying degrees. Like you said, it is at the core of yoga. Trying to define it with words quickly turns into a wild goose chase. So does trying to take notes about how to get back. Everybody gets their own particular flavor of that samadhi, but ultimately it is the same thing for all of us. The individual flavoring of any experience comes from who we are as individuals, how we view the world as individuals. In the lessons it is called the "unique matrix of obstructions." That state of samadhi is the same for all of us, but it is beyond words. How we slip into and out of that state is our 'matrix of obstructions' and there as many different matrices as there are people in the world. And so there are as many descriptions of samadhi as there are ways to slip in and out of it. But when we're there, none of that can matter. In my experience, ideas such as how I got there, and how to describe it, are usually the first thoughts I have as soon as I've slipped out.
Excellent answer.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2011 : 09:40:08 AM
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On further consideration...
I had an experience sort of like yours where
people said, "let it go," it is "scenery",
and that did not make sense to me
because the experience WAS
my great teacher of what it means to "let it go"
the experience WAS
my greatest experience of consciously witnessing "scenery"
I felt they misunderstood
So I had to learn on my own from my inner guru
And let the ongoing resonance of the experience
present in the present moment
be my guide |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2011 : 2:24:41 PM
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Samadhi is not a state of consciousness, per se, but a process by which we might measure our evolution toward or through those states. Waking, dreaming and sleeping are our three ordinary, up-until-meditation states of consciousness. Then, during deep meditation, we begin to get 'glimpses' of this stillness which underlies all. In Sanskrit, this is called "Turiya", which means, simply, "Fourth". In terms of samadhi, we can equate this with what is called "Laja Samadhi", a latent ("laja") or potential level of samadhi which begins in deep meditation. This kind of samadhi is a state of joy, deep and general well-being, and peacefulness during meditation. "Savikalpa Samadhi" is the fifth state of consciousness, meaning literally, "with imagination". This is a state of duality, in which the silence within, which previously was experienced as one's true inner nature only during meditation, is now continuously experienced as the seat of the Self, even during waking, dreaming and sleeping--hence the silent inner Self becomes a "witness" to all the outer dimension of life--the duality I spoke of earlier. Nirvikalpa Samadhi is the highest state of consciousness, in which there is no longer any duality or subject-object differences. Upon entering nirvikalpa samadhi, the differences we saw before have faded and we see everything as one. In this condition nothing but pure awareness remains and nothing detracts from wholeness and perfection. This we can also call "Unity Consciousness". Kundalini has nothing to do with any of this. This evolution may occur without ever having a kundalini experience, and a Kundalini experience may occur without any of these stages having been present. However, often some form or degree of kundalini experience might accompany a transition through these levels of samadhi.
Hope this helps a little--words always fail to reflect this very well...
Michael |
Edited by - mikkiji on Oct 22 2011 2:29:27 PM |
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Question for Advanced Meditators
