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BluesFan
USA
35 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 14 2006 : 5:05:31 PM
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First of all I'd just like compliment Yogani on putting together such a quality site. There is a tremendous amount of accurate, practical, and helpful information on this site. It's amazing to see all of this stuff in one place and articulated so well (and without all the "worship thy guru" garbage).
I'm new to the AYP teachings but I have been practicing Kriya pranayama daily for about 8 months now. Kriya pranayma is essentially the same thing as spinal breathing (w/ some very minor modifications), which leads me to my question. During kriya pranayama, I do experience a very nice calming effect on the mind and the body. It's a great prep for meditation (generally). But one thing I haven't experienced is the physical sensation of energy flowing up and down the spine during pranayama. From what I've read and heard, this sensation should be one of the effects of kriya pranayama/spinal breathing. Am I doing something wrong or is this something that just comes with time? It's not that I'm terribly upset about this lack of sensation, I just want to do everything I can to ensure that I'm practicing correctly.
On a related note... From reading in here and other places, I notice alot of emphasis in Yoga on breath cessation. Just to throw in my two cents worth, my greatest success in slowing down and temporarily stopping the respiration process has come from simply observing the in and out flow of the breath with absolute attention, not trying to change it or slow it down with any effort. In my experience if you achieve one pointed concentration on the breath, it will slow itself down naturally and I've even had it stop completely (on it's own) for minutes at a time. When it happens this way it is a very comfortable process and the only effort lies in the act of attention. The only scary thing comes when your concentration wavers in the middle of an extended period of non-breathing and you have this sudden "oh crap, i'm not breathing" thought go through your mind. Only had that happen a couple of times though.
Anyway, any insight or suggestions on my spinal breathing question would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance and thanks to Yogani for sharing such powerful information (and in such a practical, no-nonsense kind of way). |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2006 : 5:42:36 PM
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Welcome BluesFan .
If this does help calm you before your meditation.. I think you are doing great. You will feel it really soon.. don't worry.. some of us need some house cleaning to happen before we feel much
I am sure you went over the basic Spinal breathing lesson..
http://www.aypsite.org/41.html
Your question has come at a very good time.. Yogani has just launched his new Spinal breathing book.. maybe you could get your hands on that
Remember.. sitting in sidhasana, with mulabandha and sambhavi will incease you energy flow during Spinal breathing.
If you go to the topic index, you can look at all the lessons that cover questions on Spinal breathing.
http://www.aypsite.org/TopicIndex.html
Maybe lesson 96 http://www.aypsite.org/96.html could answer your question too..
quote:
Just continue imagining the breath going up and down inside that little spinal nerve. It takes a while to develop the mental habit. Be easy about it, like in meditation. If you wander off the spinal breathing, just easily come back to it. There is nothing more to expect than that you will continue that easy process. If other visions come and fill your attention, just favor the practice of simple spinal breathing – breath with the attention going up and down. No big effort at concentration is necessary, and no big visualizations are needed. You should be able to let go of the
verbalizations pretty soon. It is best to be easy and relaxed with the process
Others will tell you more I am sure.
All the best in your chosen path. I hope you will share your journey with us
-Shanti. |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2006 : 6:14:50 PM
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| Hi BluesFan. I post here from time to time. Interestingly, I too have been daily practicing Kriya Pranayama for about 8 months. My lessons are from elsewhere, though AYP is very helpful and full of info as you've noticed. I experience breath cessation in the same way. I don't feel energy up and down the spine much yet, just mainly in the head. Giving it time like Shanti said is probably right...eight months is not a long time. Have fun, alan |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2006 : 7:14:05 PM
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| Alan.. do you do spinal breathing or Kriya Pranayama? Did you give spinal breathing a try? It could smooth out the excess energy in the head you know.. it did for me |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2006 : 7:34:08 PM
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Thus far I haven't experienced an excess of energy in the head; it generally seems to increase in time, but not too much yet.
In the Kriya I'm learning, the specific inner actions, or kriyas, are breath-connected routes of pranic breathing.
Perhaps the energy in the head hasn't become excessive because I have been taught the kriyas in a gradual and gentle succession. We began with breathing prana in through the medulla and down to fill the heart. Lately we've been furthering the drawing of prana with the breath from the crown and down the shusumna to the perinium and then tracing the flow back up. We perform kechari to facilitate the flow.
I'm sorry, I'm not read up on AYP spinal breathing info. I'm also not practiced in the SRF kind of 'chakra' breathing as I think I've read it to be described. alan
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BluesFan
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2006 : 10:36:59 AM
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Thanks for the welcome Shanti. I did notice the new Spinal Breathing book and I certainly plan to get my hands on it.
My experience with spinal breathing (so far) could best be described as an accelerator into the meditative state. One side effect I did notice occured within the first few weeks that I started practicing and then subsided. I'd get this pulsing/vibrating feeling a few inches below my belly button. I could actually visually see that part of my body twitching and spasming. Quite a strange sensation and it occured randomly throughout the day, not just during pranayama. For the most part that's gone now. The one other thing that I've only noticed since starting the kriya/spinal breathing has happened a few times at night right as I'm about to fall asleep. Could best be described as sharp jolt to the body and bright flash of white light in the head. That's only happened a handful of times though. It would be interesting to hear if any other folks have had that same experience.
Alan, that is a neat coincedence about our similar timeframes on kriya pranayama. I'll look forward to seeing you here and hearing about your progress and experiences.
Thanks again, both of you, for your responses. |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2006 : 11:14:05 AM
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Welcome aboard, BluesFan!
You have gotten some good pointers on the hatha extras you can add step-by-step as you go through the AYP lessons that are geared to the cultivation of whole body ecstatic conductivity.
But way more important than that from the AYP point of view is getting established and stabilized in the core practices of spinal breathing and deep meditation, in sequence, not at the same time.
What AYP adds to the scenario is mantra yoga-style deep meditation right after spinal breathing, which is a breakthrough in efficiency and results. While kriya includes meditation after spinal breathing, it is OM nada, which is not nearly as consistent as mantra meditation when done correctly. With deep meditation, the full benefits of spinal breathing will emerge much sooner, because the dynamics of inner silence interacting with ecstatic conductivity are greatly enhanced.
Additionally, in AYP we do not attempt to meditate during spinal breathing (with mantra, chakras or breath), which enhances the cultivation process of spinal breathing itself. Simplicity has its advantages.
Well, these are some differences between AYP and Kriya Yoga, which folks may agree with or not. Just thought I'd point out some of the salient points, which are particularly important to grasp before jumping headlong into the rest of the AYP lessons. Better to have the basics covered first.
AYP is self-directed and open source, so it is always your choice on how to integrate your practices and proceed.
Wishing you all the best on your path. Practice wisely, and enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2006 : 11:19:41 AM
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Hi Bluesfan,
Jolts, lights, vibrations.. all part of the purification process.. welcome. If your symptoms get too much to handle you may want to slow down your practice.. I am not clear about what your routine is. Are you doing the AYP spinal breathing.. followed by deep meditation.. or the Kriya spinal breathing that Alan described above?
-Shanti
PS: Ooops! I guess Yogani and I posted together.. Thank you Yogani. Bluesfan, I guess you have your answers now |
Edited by - Shanti on Apr 15 2006 11:22:54 AM |
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BluesFan
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2006 : 8:40:45 PM
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Many thanks for the welcome Yogani. And thank you for providing all of this wonderful information.
At this point I'm favoring the AYP method of spinal breathing over Kriya pranayama as it was taught to me. I only say that because it seems more natural and flows easier. In Kriya there is a suction created in the throat on the in breath and even after 8 months it seems a little akward. I always follow the pranayama with meditation. And previously, rather than meditating on OM I was mostly just sitting in the stillness after pranayama.
I'll start using the "I AM" mantra and then don't plan to introduce anything new for awhile. While I'm truly not that interested in provoking any "kundalini fireworks", I am hoping to experience the subtle energy sensations flowing up and down the spine during pranayama.
Basically that is my routine, generally twice a day. I try to do some longer sessions on the weekends and on some weeknights I meditate for about an hour. Other than that I practice Tai Chi several times a week in the morning and try to be conciously present throughout my daily life and very attentive and open to the present moment.
I'm glad to have found this place. It's not often you encounter people that you can discuss this kind of thing with.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2006 : 9:22:50 PM
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Hi Bluesfan,
Careful on the extra long meditations once you begin with the “I am” meditation. Mantra meditation is a lot more potent than other forms of meditation as you are also stimulating the spinal nerve with the mantra which accelerates the process of purification (releasing blockages and karmic debris). Over 20 minutes (sometimes it can be even less) can often be on the too much side of things. You will know soon enough after your session if you have gone too long if emotional instability in the form of moodiness/ irritability etc. or if excess energy issues surface.
Best of luck!
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 07:41:24 AM
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Hi Bluesfan,
As Anthem said.. 1 hr of meditation is a lot.. so you may want to stay away from that. Otherwise you are doing good with the 10 min spinal breathing and 20 min meditation, twice a day. Dont forget to rest after you meditation. I know you will enjoy it. Continue reading the lessons on Spinal breathing and meditation that are listed in the topic index. I find them very handy.. every time you read or re-read a lesson something new is revealed. Also if possible try to get a copy of the meditation and spinal breathing books... they will really help.
Wish you success in your path.
-Shanti. |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 09:21:16 AM
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Hi BluesFan,
Mantra style AYP meditation needs only around 20 mins of time to do the required purification. Trying to push past the 20 mins mark is NOT recommended. A better option is on weekends when you are really geared up, you can add one extra meditation session if you want to.
Yes this is a great place to get to meet lot of practitioners and fellow travellers. A wonderful way to keep oneself motivated!!
-Near
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BluesFan
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 12:29:48 PM
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Everyone seems to be warning me about exceeding the 20 minutes with the "I AM" mantra. I'm definitely going to heed that advice as I'm all for practicing safely.
I've been a meditator for about 8 years now and am accustomed to longer sessions from time to time. However, until recently I never implemented any formal yogic methods. In the past I just used the in and out breath as a meditation object.
What are the recommendations for longer meditations? Should I just avoid longer sessions altogether or is it okay to keep going if I drop the mantra after 20 mins?
Thanks for all the input everyone. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 12:40:29 PM
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Hello BluesFan,
under certain circumstances, such as being on 'retreat', you can meditate more than the usual 20 minutes twice per day. However, there are all the self-pacing issues that go with that sort of thing as discussed in the lessons.
What I am saying is that 'going on retreat' like that should not be done lightly, or without some prior experience of meditation first, or guidance.
Even if 'on retreat', most people find that optimal results are not obtained by really long meditation sessions, but rather by a larger number of shorter ones. They should be separated by asanas and/or walking, or mindless working (sweeping and cleaning can work while one is 'on retreat', but obviously, many kinds of regular work are not suitable -- even cooking is not usually suitable, unless it is simple and easy the thinking and sorting have been done in advance).
In zen, they have gotten this down -- they never meditate for a really long time, and always break it up with walking sessions. If you are lucky enough to have a zen monastry nearby, you might be able to go to their retreats and do mantra yoga quietly while you 'sit'. I have often done this. Most of them are tolerant of it, though they don't have to know if they are not.
Regards,
-David |
Edited by - david_obsidian on Apr 17 2006 12:45:11 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 12:53:28 PM
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I used to meditate for 2-3 hrs at a stretch before AYP.. too much cleansing.. too much irritation during the day.. I don't recommend it at all.. If you have all this extra time that you want to use spiritually.. Yogani always says "go out and be active".. you could go out and do something good in your society.. you could read inspiring stuff.. get a couple of self inquiry books and add to your improvements.. Check out this post for some ideas..
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=968
Now that's just my 2 cents for what its worth |
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BluesFan
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 6:35:49 PM
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Shanti - Thanks for that link; I really enjoyed reading it. A couple of comments on that note: I've read quite a bit of spiritual material over the past 8-9 years. I stumbled upon a Zen book when I was 19 and it just clicked. It almost felt like I was reading stuff I already knew. It felt like home but I had never been exposed to anything like that. I wanted to comment on Eckhart Tolle... I'd heard of him and seen his books and tapes but because of his popularity, I never gave him much of a chance. (I think the fact that his book was endorsed by Oprah was a little too much for me) However, out of curiousity I did pick up a cd book of his about two months ago ("A New Earth") and my mind was blown. Having read many spiritual books, you notice the striking similarities in all of the different traditions. Everyone is basically saying the same thing but in a different way based on their culture,tradition, and disposition. Tolle is no different but he articulates the matter in a way that is nothing short of brilliant. He does it in a very practical, logical way that seems to resonate with the western mind. Fifteen minutes into his cds (we listened to them while on a long road trip) I knew in my heart that this is a truly illuminated man.
So, needless to say, I have a very high opinion of his teaching. But for those looking for instruction on physical procedures and meditation methods...I agree with the people I've seen here that say his material is lacking in that regard. I don't think that's what he's trying to accomplish necessarily. As Yogani mentioned in one of the responses I read, Tolle more or less achieved enlightenment "by accident". He just woke up at the top of the mountain. And though his teaching is more general and less procedural; I'm not sure if I've ever come across anyone who makes such short work of the human ego. And the neat thing is, he does it without all of the esoterism that tends to cause many western folks eyes to glaze over.
But anyway...
You, David, and the others have made some good points about the benefits of a shorter meditation period. Yogani has done a wonderful job at condensing everything down to what seems like the most effecient presentation of yoga that there is. If I can use these methods and get more out of 30 minute sessions than I used to get out of 1-2 hour sessions, I'm all for it.
David - As it turns out, there is a small Zen meditation center in my area (at least one that I know of). I've always wanted to drop in but it just hasn't happened yet. I know that it would be beneficial to meditate in the company of Zen practicioners. And Zen has been very close to my heart since I first discovered it.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2006 : 10:10:19 AM
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Hi Blues,
quote:
So, needless to say, I have a very high opinion of his teaching. But for those looking for instruction on physical procedures and meditation methods...I agree with the people I've seen here that say his material is lacking in that regard. I don't think that's what he's trying to accomplish necessarily. As Yogani mentioned in one of the responses I read, Tolle more or less achieved enlightenment "by accident". He just woke up at the top of the mountain. And though his teaching is more general and less procedural; I'm not sure if I've ever come across anyone who makes such short work of the human ego. And the neat thing is, he does it without all of the esoterism that tends to cause many western folks eyes to glaze over.
I like Tolle a lot too and agree that he does an excellent job in exposing the many ways the ego can manifest in our lives. I regularly use his advice to witness my emotions and thoughts and to observe my ego in action. I also like his recommendation to sense the energy field in my body to help me come back to the here and now.
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Spinal Breathing/Kriya Pranayama
