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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 03:14:44 AM
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quote:
Not like an advaita teacher living in the clouds.
was Ramana living in the clouds? |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 03:36:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
To some extent I believe in what you say, everything is unfolding with divine intelligence but I love to keep it real and on earth with my fellow human beings. Not like an advaita teacher living in the clouds. Nothing to do, nothing to yati yatta.
I would ask you about those starving to death in Somalia... The only just answer would be reincarnation, but then again who cares about all that... We only have this present moment we are living in and we should help...
Let's agree that we don't agree
Salam
Where did I say you have to do nothing?
Do yoga, do meditation, bhakti... whatever you feel to do. Just do it! 
Why are you asking me about children in Somalia? Ask their parents who give birth to them? And what do you know about me? My family runs two free schools for poor children in our city. We fund several trusts that help underprivileged women and children.
But we do it because we can. If someone can't do it, all good.
Life is a box of mixed chocolates. Either refuse the whole box or accept what comes in your hand.
I don't care if there is reincarnation or not, neither about karma. They belong to ego and dreaming.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 05:24:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
Not like an advaita teacher living in the clouds.
was Ramana living in the clouds?
Nope, Ramana was pretty much active in service to people at his ashram.
I mean other cases and I don't want to do any guru bashing here because it's against forum rules. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 05:41:00 AM
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quote:
Where did I say you have to do nothing?
Do yoga, do meditation, bhakti... whatever you feel to do. Just do it!
Why are you asking me about children in Somalia? Ask their parents who give birth to them? And what do you know about me? My family runs two free schools for poor children in our city. We fund several trusts that help underprivileged women and children.
But we do it because we can. If someone can't do it, all good.
Life is a box of mixed chocolates. Either refuse the whole box or accept what comes in your hand.
I don't care if there is reincarnation or not, neither about karma. They belong to ego and dreaming.
By saying everyone is this and that... This is the end. This is pretty much the philosophy of there is nothing to do. Pardon my misinterpretation but this is how it seems to someone reading it.
I wasn't aiming at your person when I spoke about the children of Somalia. I was aiming at the philosophy of there is nothing to do.
Who said anything about refusing or accepting the whole of life. I am pro wholehearted loving acceptance and living it.
You are free to care or not to about anything you like.
In the end I am speaking from my personal experience and I trust so are you. Emptiness (clarity of seeing as I call it) which I am experiencing right now is not the end for me. There is an ego who is experiencing this clarity of seeing. True there is emptiness, but someone is experiencing it. Let's call it an empty ego
I've had glimpses of something more and a lot of the teachers I've met (suffies, yogies, advaitans...) approved of my experiences and told me this is absolute Truth realized.
What I am aiming at is that when I experienced it, It had the absolute factor in it and the no beginning no end... All of that stuff... But it included an outpouring of waves of such a pure love, radiating non stop. Love for all beings, love for service to others.
So while you speak from your own personal experience or from something you've read or heard else where, you can't force your views on me nor me on you.
So as I said earlier, let's agree to disagree
Love,
Ananda |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 05:44:29 AM
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quote:
Yeah, I've always had a hard time with the Zen story about the Rinzai Zen master that saws a cat in half because his student can't come up with an answer to his koan. The cook puts his shoes on his head when the master tells him what he did which is supposed to have great significance, but I never can get over the poor cat.
Steven can you explain this koan to me in simple english please...thx |
Edited by - maheswari on Sep 03 2011 05:47:41 AM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 06:39:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
quote:
Where did I say you have to do nothing?
Do yoga, do meditation, bhakti... whatever you feel to do. Just do it!
Why are you asking me about children in Somalia? Ask their parents who give birth to them? And what do you know about me? My family runs two free schools for poor children in our city. We fund several trusts that help underprivileged women and children.
But we do it because we can. If someone can't do it, all good.
Life is a box of mixed chocolates. Either refuse the whole box or accept what comes in your hand.
I don't care if there is reincarnation or not, neither about karma. They belong to ego and dreaming.
By saying everyone is this and that... This is the end. This is pretty much the philosophy of there is nothing to do. Pardon my misinterpretation but this is how it seems to someone reading it.
I wasn't aiming at your person when I spoke about the children of Somalia. I was aiming at the philosophy of there is nothing to do.
Who said anything about refusing or accepting the whole of life. I am pro wholehearted loving acceptance and living it.
You are free to care or not to about anything you like.
In the end I am speaking from my personal experience and I trust so are you. Emptiness (clarity of seeing as I call it) which I am experiencing right now is not the end for me. There is an ego who is experiencing this clarity of seeing. True there is emptiness, but someone is experiencing it. Let's call it an empty ego
I've had glimpses of something more and a lot of the teachers I've met (suffies, yogies, advaitans...) approved of my experiences and told me this is absolute Truth realized.
What I am aiming at is that when I experienced it, It had the absolute factor in it and the no beginning no end... All of that stuff... But it included an outpouring of waves of such a pure love, radiating non stop. Love for all beings, love for service to others.
So while you speak from your own personal experience or from something you've read or heard else where, you can't force your views on me nor me on you.
So as I said earlier, let's agree to disagree
Love,
Ananda
I never force.
Outpouring love.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=8659
It was a trick of the ego.
There is nothing to agree or disagree here.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 06:49:51 AM
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I call it a peak at the sun between the clouds
So again we disagree dear |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 07:17:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
I call it a peak at the sun between the clouds
So again we disagree dear
I call it dreaaaaammmmmiiiinnnngggggg...
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 07:19:59 AM
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| I don't know what the koan was that the Zen master asked his student, I was just horrified that he decided it was necessary to saw a cat in half when his student couldn't answer it. Sounds very much against Buddhism too me. I guess it would be sick irony if the koan happened to be, "Does a dog have Buddha Nature?" |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 07:42:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
I call it a peak at the sun between the clouds
So again we disagree dear
I call it dreaaaaammmmmiiiinnnngggggg...
If that's dreaming, I would be more than happy to live all my nows in it. I don't want or need anything else |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 12:07:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
steven
check this
http://www.ibiblio.org/zen/gateless-gate/14.html
Now that is one ******* twisted koan I have ever read.
I let it go into silence... no answer.
I put my slippers on my head and walked outside the room... felt great, but no answer.
Perhaps Joshu's sandals were made from Fox fur and they can also be worn as a cap to keep the head warm. So there was no need to kill the cat as fox fur was much better.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 12:31:17 PM
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quote:
Perhaps Joshu's sandals were made from Fox fur and they can also be worn as a cap to keep the head warm. So there was no need to kill the cat as fox fur was much better.
convincing enough
poor cat
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 1:22:25 PM
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quote:
Now that is one ******* twisted koan I have ever read.
'Tis too much proved--that with devotion's visage
And pious action we do sugar o'er
The devil himself.
--Shakespeare's Hamlet
Of course there are good and bad teachings. The teaching must align with the inner compass, inner sense of justice, or inner guru, if you want to call it that. If the teaching violates your soul, it is bad.
The story of Ryonen triggered some major overload. I couldn't sleep the night after I read it and woke up bawling the next morning. My hubby was like; "Geez Lizzy, what the hell's the matter with you?" So between sobs, I told him about Ryonen and complained that at least she had a way in. All she had to do was burn her face. He just held me, and let me bawl. Then he told me maybe I'd better stay the hell away from this forum for a while. But I'm already in a self-imposed exile from the Christian church. This is someplace where I'd like to belong. It's okay if I don't. But I'd like to.
There are teachings in the Christian church that women are innately impure, filthy, and sinful. There are positions where women are not allowed to serve, rooms in the church where women are not allowed to enter, meetings where women are not allowed to participate. As if women were contaminants. I was taught that I was good, except for my womanhood, my sexuality, and my ambition. If I could just excise those parts, I might be accepted. It amounted to a systematic rape of the soul. And even though I have not set foot inside a church in years, as long as it continues to happen to other women, I still feel violated myself. My childhood fear of the pious turned to anger as a teenager and now it borders on hate. I don't know how to get rid of it, except that meditation is helping.
I have a similar "hackles up and snarl" reaction to the self-inquiry, non-duality stuff. It seems like another exercise in systematically excising one aspect of a whole person -- the ego. I can't even read it all the way through to try to gain understanding. All this talk of ego vs. self or big I vs. little I makes me crazy. It's either all of me or nothing.
I honestly don't care about enlightenment. It's not a concept I can relate to. All I want is to be me. Whole. And meditation is letting me become more myself each day.
And here's a passing thought.... If human souls really are part of a vast ocean of consciousness, maybe as humanity progresses, their inner compasses will become more aligned and there will be less conflict and hate. |
Edited by - whippoorwill on Sep 03 2011 2:08:48 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 2:15:14 PM
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If you read the lesson on self inquiry it helps in understanding of different view points. They are different viewpoints only, ultimately it is all one. Like baking a cake, the flour doesn't understand the butter until the cake is baked.
You can attend to yourself and help everyone, or you can work on what seems a more practical basis and help the people around you.
When I was a practising therapist my Ego swelled from the number of people that I set on a better course of life. Before this, my tutor once told me that it is only ourselves we work on. I don't work as a therapist anymore and shorten the process.
Ghandi wrote "be the change you wish to see in the world". He told a story about helping a young boy to stop eating Sugar. When asked why it took so long to help the boy he said that it was because he was eating sugar up until that point.
During Autumn in the Western mountains of China the sound of the wind through the pine trees is considered to represent the highest beauty. Of course concentration can help you to read it any way that it needs.
Relax, we are all in here for the same reason.
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 3:39:15 PM
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Thanks, Karl. That helps.
And I should probably tell everyone that I didn't mean any of this as an accusation. The story just triggered a flood, as did the debate about good and bad teachings. I debated whether to walk away or share, and decided to share. I hope no one took offense. 
Best to you all,
--Liz |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 4:59:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lizmoran
quote:
Now that is one ******* twisted koan I have ever read.
'Tis too much proved--that with devotion's visage
And pious action we do sugar o'er
The devil himself.
--Shakespeare's Hamlet
Of course there are good and bad teachings. The teaching must align with the inner compass, inner sense of justice, or inner guru, if you want to call it that. If the teaching violates your soul, it is bad.
The story of Ryonen triggered some major overload. I couldn't sleep the night after I read it and woke up bawling the next morning. My hubby was like; "Geez Lizzy, what the hell's the matter with you?" So between sobs, I told him about Ryonen and complained that at least she had a way in. All she had to do was burn her face. He just held me, and let me bawl. Then he told me maybe I'd better stay the hell away from this forum for a while. But I'm already in a self-imposed exile from the Christian church. This is someplace where I'd like to belong. It's okay if I don't. But I'd like to.
There are teachings in the Christian church that women are innately impure, filthy, and sinful. There are positions where women are not allowed to serve, rooms in the church where women are not allowed to enter, meetings where women are not allowed to participate. As if women were contaminants. I was taught that I was good, except for my womanhood, my sexuality, and my ambition. If I could just excise those parts, I might be accepted. It amounted to a systematic rape of the soul. And even though I have not set foot inside a church in years, as long as it continues to happen to other women, I still feel violated myself. My childhood fear of the pious turned to anger as a teenager and now it borders on hate. I don't know how to get rid of it, except that meditation is helping.
I have a similar "hackles up and snarl" reaction to the self-inquiry, non-duality stuff. It seems like another exercise in systematically excising one aspect of a whole person -- the ego. I can't even read it all the way through to try to gain understanding. All this talk of ego vs. self or big I vs. little I makes me crazy. It's either all of me or nothing.
I honestly don't care about enlightenment. It's not a concept I can relate to. All I want is to be me. Whole. And meditation is letting me become more myself each day.
And here's a passing thought.... If human souls really are part of a vast ocean of consciousness, maybe as humanity progresses, their inner compasses will become more aligned and there will be less conflict and hate.
Thank you
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 5:03:27 PM
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| On the other hand I've been hearing heavenly anahata flute sounds today |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 6:26:39 PM
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2011 : 12:35:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lizmoran
I honestly don't care about enlightenment. It's not a concept I can relate to. All I want is to be me. Whole. And meditation is letting me become more myself each day.
B
E
A
U
T
I
F
U
L
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2011 : 06:36:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
quote:
Where did I say you have to do nothing?
Do yoga, do meditation, bhakti... whatever you feel to do. Just do it!
Why are you asking me about children in Somalia? Ask their parents who give birth to them? And what do you know about me? My family runs two free schools for poor children in our city. We fund several trusts that help underprivileged women and children.
But we do it because we can. If someone can't do it, all good.
Life is a box of mixed chocolates. Either refuse the whole box or accept what comes in your hand.
I don't care if there is reincarnation or not, neither about karma. They belong to ego and dreaming.
By saying everyone is this and that... This is the end. This is pretty much the philosophy of there is nothing to do. Pardon my misinterpretation but this is how it seems to someone reading it.
I wasn't aiming at your person when I spoke about the children of Somalia. I was aiming at the philosophy of there is nothing to do.
Who said anything about refusing or accepting the whole of life. I am pro wholehearted loving acceptance and living it.
You are free to care or not to about anything you like.
In the end I am speaking from my personal experience and I trust so are you. Emptiness (clarity of seeing as I call it) which I am experiencing right now is not the end for me. There is an ego who is experiencing this clarity of seeing. True there is emptiness, but someone is experiencing it. Let's call it an empty ego
I've had glimpses of something more and a lot of the teachers I've met (suffies, yogies, advaitans...) approved of my experiences and told me this is absolute Truth realized.
What I am aiming at is that when I experienced it, It had the absolute factor in it and the no beginning no end... All of that stuff... But it included an outpouring of waves of such a pure love, radiating non stop. Love for all beings, love for service to others.
So while you speak from your own personal experience or from something you've read or heard else where, you can't force your views on me nor me on you.
So as I said earlier, let's agree to disagree
Love,
Ananda
I never force.
Outpouring love.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=8659
It was a trick of the ego.
There is nothing to agree or disagree here.
Dear Manigma,
You might be right and me and the ones who have instructed me Wrong
Salam |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2011 : 10:01:20 AM
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Aum.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2011 : 10:17:09 AM
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Just for clarification and ego sake, I said you might
namaste Manigma |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2011 : 12:15:08 PM
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| I think I just saw a pig fly by my window! |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2011 : 12:22:37 PM
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| I saw a bride driving her own wedding car, it was a pink beetle |
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I burn my face to enter the world of Zen
