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Anakletos4
USA
14 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 06 2011 : 06:48:40 AM
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When I was younger, I watched quite a lot of porn. I used to masterbate frequently. Once I had my awakening, this cut down.
I've had this idea many times, but a few days ago I attempted it. Instead of masterbating, I started to appreciate what I was seeing. The act of sex in itself, the pleasure of the human body and the eroticism was incredible. I meditated on WHAT I was seeing, absorbing myself into the form of the female and male bodies, the genitals and the sensations. It doesn't take much to resist temptation, but it made my stomach queasy. That feeling of wanting so much was indescribable.
Did I build up a lot of energy this way? I connected my legs to her legs, my genitals to hers, her lips to mine, and matched her form to my male form. Same with the males. I felt the anxiety, tension, pleasure, and love of many of these people. I felt bad that they were on a website, exposing themselves for all others to see. I felt that they appeared to be in bliss, but somewhat tortured within.
The feminine form is divine, even in day-to-day pornography. The sacredness does not forget itself within the play. |
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2011 : 10:19:59 PM
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Pornography exploits and objectifies women. How is that divine?
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2011 : 2:17:25 PM
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When watching pornography one is sharing energies with the participants of those sexual acts. The mindsets of such persons are usually not geared towards sacredness and the divine. Instead it is focused on attachment to senses, form and release of energy into the physical. The divine does not require any experience and is beyond form.
The closest thing that probably comes to the divine is a loving couple engaging in a sacred union on all levels, not just the physical. But such couples do not engage in pornography.. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2011 : 2:46:33 PM
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porn has nothing to do with the divine
love between a man and a woman (even if not tantric) can be expressed in a beautiful way ...there is this movie called..In the Mood for Love...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Mood_for_Love |
Edited by - maheswari on Aug 07 2011 3:19:13 PM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2011 : 01:03:04 AM
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| We are manifestations of the divine, embodiment of Shiva and Shakti, and sex is (or can be) our participation in the Divine play. Unfortunately (as far as I know, having only seen a few of these films) pornography usually fails to express this and tends toward exploitation of woman. I don't think it necessarily HAS to, though. Some years ago I went through a phase when I was doing a lot of work with upper chakras and astral stuff and I became alienated from my body and disconnected from my sexuality. (I had not yet figured out solo tantra.) I told my friend who is a Wiccan high priestess and she invited me to watch a movie with her that might help me ground, which it did. The movie was called "The Coven" and it was produced by women and as I recall, featured scenes of beautiful people having mutually satisfying sex in scenic locations outdoors. I thought it was really nice. Too bad there aren't more like that. The few others I have seen were for the most part rather distasteful and a turn-off. I understand porn can be extremely addicting for men. Of course it is a very poor substitute for love and intimacy. Somebody once said (I can't remember who) that porn addiction is a misplaced desire for divine intimacy. |
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 07:15:02 AM
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I agree- porn addiction and lack of intimacy.
See the thing is people watch it (men and women) and like to look it at for visual satisfaction but are often not connected enough emotionally to realise the affect and reaction it is creating in their internal being. Like the original post mentions how they seem tortured etc... to notice that and to keep watching and then say it is divine and beautiful just does not make sense. It means there is a level of disassociation and disconnection taking place in the person watching and that they are trying to justify their actions by saying it is spiritual and divine because it looks beautiful.
Using "tantric" methods to stimulate ones self while watching it does not override nor negate the issue and the negativity of it and make it "ok". Just my opinion.....
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Edited by - Kahlia on Aug 13 2011 04:33:52 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 08:38:23 AM
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Nothing is "not divine". It is all a part of that.
When I was newly married, one evening, my husband and I were alone at home (rare thing in India when you live in a joint family), so my husband asked me if we could watch a porn movie. I had not seen any so I said, OK. We had the best sex we had ever had that night.
The next morning, I felt a bit uneasy inside. It was a very subtle uneasiness... I did not like the raw animal instincts that the porn movie got out in me. There was no love making... no softness... no connection, just a lot of lust and raw, animal like feeling. I told my husband this and he was OK with not doing this again and I have not watched any more porn movies since. I had told a friend about this too, and he had said, "wonderful that you can see this, not many do".
A year or two back, someone was talking about porn addiction at the forum. That is when, what I felt in the above situation, became clear to me. Porn brings out the raw animal sexual feelings in us. But as humans, we are blessed with a soft side... a soft side that is very subtle.
We are all born with stillness, then life happens, we are pulled around and taught to use our minds and then we lose touch with the subtle inner stillness. We have to do yoga and meditation and self inquiry to let go the layers of muck we have added so we can get in touch with the subtle stillness in us.
When we watch porn, with every movie we watch, we add a layer that takes us away from the subtle softness of lovemaking. There is nothing wrong with it if we want to stay rooted in the physical world, like there is nothing wrong with overly thinking(worrying, sadness, anger) if we want to stay at the body/mind level; but if we want to experience the sweetness of a partner's touch, or the love pouring from the eyes of the beloved, or just the beauty of the energy of doing nothing but laying there next to your beloved and making love with just energy... then porn is not going to help.
Porn pulls us outward to form, divine love making pulls us within.
But then a person who is caught in body mind is just as divine as one who is not. So we really cannot label anything as not divine.
The divine has given us a choice, a choice enjoy the play of the divine (lilla) or to become the divine |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 10:32:59 AM
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 7:03:07 PM
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Lila doesn't like exploitation.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 7:28:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kahlia
Lila doesn't like exploitation.
Exploitation has many many forms... if it exists... it is put there by the divine... The outpouring of divine love does not discriminate... It loves everything equally... the exploiter and the exploited both need healing... and only we decide who gets the loving and who does not... the divine loving loves it all equally. If love and healing is not send to the one exploiting, how will they heal and see the truth? How will the exploiting ever stop by just labeling them as the exploiters. By adding anger and hatred toward them aren't we just adding to the negative energy? "We" cannot heal anything, we can only open ourselves and become conduits of divine loving and let the divine loving heal. But the healing has to be on the whole... not a part we deem fit to receive the healing. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 7:45:56 PM
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I am not trying to argue here BTW. Just trying to show that labeling anything as good and bad causes separation. This the what keeps us from experiencing the divine.
"Acceptance" doesn’t mean being weak, or allowing others to use us as doormats, or not acting when action is needed. Acceptance means dropping the mind stories that makes us suffer by keeping us mentally and emotionally bound to a situation. Being attached to the mind stories uses up energy needlessly, clouds thinking and drains energy; acceptance helps get past the mind story and address any moment or situation with clarity. (http://livingunbound.net/lessons-re...ing-reality/)
Yogani had once told me in an email "If we choose to let others use us as a doormat, they are not to blame. We are!
Practices gradually build our strength to overcome such things."
http://www.aypsite.org/393.html
In truth, no one is injured, for ultimately we are beyond events occurring in time and space. We are pure bliss consciousness. As we advance in practices and on our path, we find this as direct experience, and act accordingly.
Prudent self-defense and forgiveness make good partners. "I love you and forgive you, but will not permit you to do that" is the way to handle those who are prone to inflict injury on others. It may mean exiting a relationship altogether, with no hard feelings. Actions performed on that basis are not personal. They are divine flow. But we may find anger mixed in, so it is good to pause to consider the consequences of our actions before moving ahead.
Moderation is the prudent course, but no one is required to be a doormat. We have a choice, and the high road is always available to us. Increasing moral conduct and the ability to forgive (let go) are symptoms of rising inner silence resulting from deep meditation. These actions then become extensions of our spiritual practice, moving from inner silence outward. So too is asking forgiveness and making amends for injuries we have caused to others. We will be able to forgive ourselves, which is the first step in forgiving others.
These things occur naturally as inner silence comes to reside in us, as we come to know ourselves to be an expression of That. This coincides with a transformation of the expression of our karma to an ecstatic balancing of all things in our life, and no longer can anyone or anything harm us. Before then, we will be wise to pay attention to the codes of conduct that exist in our spiritual tradition and culture. They are there for a reason, to protect us from our wavering humanity, until we have grown up spiritually. And we shall. It is written in the stars, and in our DNA. |
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 8:12:38 PM
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We are all part of the divine I am in full agreement with you. However this does not make all of our actions divine. Karma means action. There is no hate, or labeling. Simply for me this is a part of dharma and not supporting any actions that maybe harmful or bad for others. Again I am in agreement with you that each and every person on this planet deserves to be loved. There is not hate or labeling or resentment.
I can see you have a strong opinion about this. Thank you for sharing your view, it is great that we can all share here and all learn from each other.
Namaste. 
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 8:25:13 PM
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Separation is not good and indeed I think we are all deeply, intimately, soulfully connected. Any idea of not being connected is a delusion, an illusion infact, and a belief that is misguided. My dislike of pornography does not separate me; for me it actually helps me connect more to the divine, the dharma and humanity because I feel by not supporting it I am actually supporting ahimsa- non violence and the tenants of love. By not supporting pornography it does not mean I prefer separation because that is most certainly not the case. Perhaps my view of pornography makes me unwise or less enlightened... I dont know *shrug*. I only speak from my heart and that is all I can do.
Oh and hey... Ive watched it, my partner still watches it from time to time and 3/4 of the world if not more watch it - I dont know what to make of that. I sat and spoke about it recently with my local Buddhist sangha and we decided that although any extreme opinion about it is not so helpful and does not seem to achieve anything supporting it isnt helpful either. Everyone gets to do what they feel is best for them regardless of my own opinion; I am not proud enough to say I know best for everyone, however in relation to this thread and tantra i was just trying to point out that tantra is not pornography, the lines seem to be so easily blurred in the area.
I think perhaps we are actually probably in agreement Shanti but perhaps you mistook my posts and opinion as being stronger than I intended or actually feel. I do feel strongly about it but strongly moderate  , not strongly extreme. You make a good point about being extreme, extremism never seems to get very far at all.
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Edited by - Kahlia on Aug 13 2011 8:50:38 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 9:23:44 PM
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We are absolutely in agreement my dear. How can it be any other way. Life is too beautiful to not see it as a whole. As I was driving just now, I let go in stillness for me and you and all reading. We are all writing what touches us from where we are... and my samyama was for us all to just be open... things are constantly changing... and I just pray that we all stay open to go with this... not get caught up in anything.. ever... me included.
Actually I was not really singling you out my dear (really sorry if I sounded that way). I did not even remember who wrote what...the first post itself made me want to share what I did share.
Porn takes us out into form... and that is not tantra... tantra is a tool to pull us inward away from form... just as mantra is to take the mind away from form (concrete thoughts). Both mantra and tantra are tools to help us get back in touch with the subtle inner silence. And yet, I cannot label it (porn) as bad... at times we have to experience form to its fullest in order to be tired of it and find ways to move away.
Much love to you Kahlia. Your spirit and energy is beautiful.
One thing Supersunny said though that did touch me...
quote:
The feminine form is divine, even in day-to-day pornography. The sacredness does not forget itself within the play.
... the play... the lilla... |
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 9:54:35 PM
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Om Shanti!!! You have said it beautifully- thank you.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 9:59:15 PM
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Thank you.
_/\_ |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Aug 15 2011 : 5:12:53 PM
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| Shanti, Thank you for your beautiful words. I agree with nearly everything you said. I just have a minor difference of opinion regarding your statement: "tantra is a tool to pull us inward away from form..." I realize this is the standard approach, but for me personally and in the tradition I practice, it's not about "getting away from" anything; it's about offering all our experiences as embodied beings to the inner fire of bhakti and realizing the divinity of it all. So "form" is not less sacred than "formless." But this is probably just semantics and not particularly relevant to our discussion of [tasteless] porn as such. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 15 2011 : 7:15:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JamieRadha
Shanti, Thank you for your beautiful words. I agree with nearly everything you said. I just have a minor difference of opinion regarding your statement: "tantra is a tool to pull us inward away from form..." I realize this is the standard approach, but for me personally and in the tradition I practice, it's not about "getting away from" anything; it's about offering all our experiences as embodied beings to the inner fire of bhakti and realizing the divinity of it all. So "form" is not less sacred than "formless." But this is probably just semantics and not particularly relevant to our discussion of [tasteless] porn as such.
You are right JamieRadha, it is semantics. What you call inner fire of bhakti, is what I was referring to as inward, away from form. Just physical sex is form based, when we take that and use it to light our inner bhakti/fire, transform it to energy we use for our spiritual path I was referring to that as formless. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Aug 15 2011 : 8:25:05 PM
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| Oh! agreed. |
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avatar186
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2011 : 05:13:00 AM
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porn does not exploit woman.
woman choose to do porn.
if you want to change the porn industry, maybe a woman should run it, and pay the men more then the womans. hows that sound?
no one is using them.
its not a conspiracy.
on the other hand.
it is slow, rotting, unpure flesh, rubbing together in efforts to try and satisfy a temporary and fluctuating desire called lust.
the dead have sex with the dead for pleasures sake all the time.
only the immortals know how to use it for higher ways.
and all being know how to use it for procreation.
unfortunatly this urge is primal and exists weather or not you want it!!!!! yet we project "shame shame" upon it, and this society still hasnt learned to transform it and become immortal yet. shame shame said the blind sheep to the other blind sheep!!! |
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2011 : 06:12:49 AM
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People can still be exploited even if they are being paid. Sure we all make our own choices but sometimes people find themselves "stuck like a rock in a hard place" (I think that is the correct expression) and find themselves struggling for whatever reason and so end up doing things to survive financially as a last resort.There are people out there (producers etc) who pray on these people and take advantage of them. If someone finds them self to be in hard times and struggling in life so they agree to let themselves be hurt or abused sexually for money does this mean it is ok?
Many think that all the women enjoy but in many cases it is simply just acting. The same would apply for the men as well.
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Edited by - Kahlia on Sep 04 2011 08:09:11 AM |
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chit-ananda51
India
127 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2011 : 01:37:49 AM
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| The original poster of this topic seems to have disappeared.. Wish he comes back to see this enlightening discussion :) |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2011 : 09:15:38 AM
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Hi Everybody,
Sex, and the other 5 senses, are a manifestation of God's genius as a Design Engineer par excellence! His idea was to get us addicted to these senses, and at the same time "tell us" (through Yogani and others ) that if we engage in Spiritual Practices diligently, we could obtain enjoyment multiplied a thousand fold, and lasting forever, unlike the enjoyment from the senses which are transient and immpermanent. In this way God intended that we are enabled to realise the main purpose for which He has created us.
I realise that I am digressing from the topic of "porn", but I still thought I would share my thoughts.
Krish |
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2011 : 1:13:07 PM
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| It would have been great if they still had those goddess temples around for those vulnerable guys at heart like us that are not all brain yet. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 1:14:11 PM
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| I think that we need to look at how we define exploitation. If it means to use someone for our own benefit without fairly compensating them or giving them choice then i would say that porn does not exploit women but rather elevates their sexual value excessively by glorifying that aspect of them and paying the female performers much higher wages than the males. I was going to say that porn victimizes males as it appeals to their sexual weakness and so costs them both money as well as the urge to masturbate and thus lose their precious sexual energy. That said perhaps it is a symptom rather than a cause of a deep level of sexual imbalance in our society and an honest sexual frustration of many males who don't find satisfaction with the women that they relate to. I have talked with many young male friends who in their 20s have given up on trying to please women as an impossible task and not worth the effort.It seems that especially young women these days want it all and men are just getting tired of it. Porn seems to me to be both a glorification of women and also an easy outlet for many males who don't have the patience for the hoops they have to jump through. Or simply it is a distraction from the realities of life in general. I guess it is just another industry in this modern world like fast food that offers cheap enjoyment rather than putting the effort and expense into a better meal. Personally at one time i found porn to be excessively stimulating and fascinating. Now for the most part it bores me as i don't get stimulated unless I am actually interacting with a real person. I have lost the suspension of disbelief and it is just images on a screen. the performers don't know that I exist so it doesn't work anymore. This is probably for the best as it has no more attraction for me. |
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WoodDragon
USA
56 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2011 : 10:02:22 AM
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It seems to me that so much of this is definition, I have always felt that when we define something we give it "form", the more tightly it is defined, the more bound to form it is in our minds. As for this topic, as an artist I have had the unfortunate experience of having my own paintings called "porn" because it had nudes, my work was removed from a gallery because someone found it offensive that I as a male painted a work of art which depicted a female nude. I was then accused of "exploiting" my model. In the same gallery was a series of nudes (all female nudes) painted by a woman, she was allowed to stay as her works were not "exploitative" as she was female. I also note that not much is said about the exploitation of males (some is mentioned but not much) which does occur much more frequently than we are told of. There is also no mention of how today there are more and more female producers of porn, they are becoming the majority. Why? It makes money.
Where do we draw the line when we define sexual experiences? Why are we so tied up with form? We all have bodies (for now anyway...) and we know what they look like and what their functions are and yet we allow ourselves to be shocked by them. I work very hard to not be affected by form, the best way is to let it go in stillness. All is One in Divine Love and Divine experience, whether or not all participants realize this. All is sacred because the Infinite is sacred, it is how we respond (or not) that is important to our development as souls. Understand I am not defending nor am I supporting pornography, neither am I condemning it. It is and as all things are it is part of what exists. We can learn from it as we learn from all things, and then we let them go.
Pleasures, pains, fears, loves, all of it we let go in stillness and thus become free. In that freedom we find peace, bliss and Divine Love which encompasses all and none. In our attempts to discern, make distinctions, choices, and definitions we are attempting to parse and partition the Infinite, an endless task which can lead us far astray from stillness and Truth. It is All, we are All.
Just my 2 cents. I also wonder where the original poster went? I would love to hear this person's views on this very interesting topic they created... |
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Appreciating the feminine form
