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Originally posted by adamantclearlight

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Where exactly did you find that he teaches to keep the attention at the abdomen?

:)
TI

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Hi TI, In "Practicing the Power of Now." Blatant Zen influence. Nothing original in Tolle.

Adamant

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... feel yourself breathing into the lower abdomen, as it were. Observe how it expands and contracts slightly with each in and out breath. Then become aware of the entire inner energy field of the body. Don't think about it. Feel it. By doing this you reclaim consciousness from the mind. If you find it helpful, use the light visualization I just described.

When you can feel the body clearly as a single field of energy, let go if possible of any visual image and focus exclusively on the feeling. If you can, also drop any mental image that you may have of the physical body. All that is left then, is an all encompassing sense of presence or beingness and the inner body is felt to be as without a boundary.

Then, take your attention even more deeply into that feeling. Become one with it. Merge with the energy field so that there is no longer a percieved duality of the observer and the observed, of you and your body.

The distinction between inner and outer also dissolves now so there's no inner body any more. By going deeply into the body, you have transcended the body. Stay in this realm of pure being for as long as is comfortable. ..

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Remember, that body awareness is a step. It's an attention diversion away from thoughts. When the mind is sufficiently settled, one must not rest the attention anywhere and just observe the mind (choiceless awareness).

Adamant

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Originally posted by Nathan

Dear friends,

I'd just like to point out that there are other teachings on body awareness apart from Goenka's vipassana. Eckhart Tolle teaches this, and calls it inner body awareness; there is good information on this in the book "The Power of Now." Another great book is "The Method of No-Method: The Chan Practice of Silent Illumination," by Sheng Yen.

Both of these teachers talk about a total body awareness, rather than body scanning as in Goenka's teachings. So the issue of too much attention put on the crown chakra doesn't really apply when one is keeping awareness on the body as a whole.

I'm more drawn to keeping awareness on the body as a whole, and that's why I like the two books I mentioned. Of course this is essentially the same method. Eckhart doesn't attach a lot of teachings to the method, which is nice, but on the other hand, some of the Buddhist teachings can help deepen the practice. It's nice to read and integrate different viewpoints. Neither Tolle nor Yen incorporate breath awareness much in their method, but both say that it can be used when needed to enter into the practice, such as when one is feeling agitated.

I don't think it's necessary to go off to retreat in order to learn body awareness; it's a beautifully simple method (Goenka's method involves more elements). In the case of the Goenka Vipassana course, not every one can, or would want to, sit for 10-12 hours a day. Of course, attending retreat can deepen ones practice, but don't feel that you have to attend retreat.

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Originally posted by adamantclearlight

On the other hand, his comments that mantra and visualizations create a comforter cover for one's "stuff" stored in the unconscious is also true. Vipassana is about stirring up the stuff and resolving each bit on the spot, pleasant or painful. The Goenka method is a sharp scalpel. His students might be a little dull, I don't know. In a retreat, one practices a method not a community. If I was Ruben, I would just keep my personal daily practice to myself and take advantage of a great method and opportunity to practice in a nice retreat place.

I didn't read anything about a crown practice. That would be weird, because the Buddha never mentioned chakras even once and Goenka's methods correspond to the suttas. That may have to do with dwelling too long at the top of the head during "sweeping." One should only be sweeping for a day or two to get the hang of body mindfulness. I certainly don't think anyone needs to be scared of vipassana. The Buddha's methods are wonderfully blessed.

I would revise the "noting" practice of Daniel Ingram's style to just noticing. Noting is too much work. When doing AYP, one basically accomplishes full body mindfulness, so sweeping is unnecessary.

Adamant

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Originally posted by adamantclearlight

It is better to combine. A twice daily routine of shamatha practice, with pranayama and mantra, plus a small 5-10 min dose of vipassana (called self-inquiry around here) at the end of the session will win you the best experience. You will set a foundation of inner well-being with shamatha, while slowly tip-toeing into the deep end. A lot of us, including me, have spent time banging the old head against the wall trying to maximize one side or the other. But the best way is the sane and balanced approach.

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Originally posted by Ruben
Dear friends,

Two months ago, I finally participated at a 10-day Vipassana course, in the U Ba Khin tradition (Goenka teaching).
It was a wonderful experience; so much peace, understanding and love have come from practicing vipassana and metta. I feel a remarkable difference in daily life since the retreat and my continuing practicing Vipassana as instructed in the course.

Before the Vipassana retreat, I was practicing hatha yoga and ayp (mainly spinal breathing and deep meditation; usually once a day; sometimes twice or not when doing other practices; eg at ashrams in India).

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I very much value ayp and would love to combine it with vipassana (body sweeping). Since the retreat I have managed to focus on body sweeping alone (with some hatha yoga, but no ayp). Once in a while I find myself naturally going to spinal breathing and/or DM (IAM) though. Short spinal breathing and DM feels like an excellent preparation for body sweeping when mind is a bit restless.

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For this reason, and as it seems appealing intellectually to combine a shamatha practice with vipassana, I consider combining ayp (spinal breathing and DM mainly) with vipassana (but not during the retreats of course).

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Originally posted by adamantclearlight

It is better to combine. A twice daily routine of shamatha practice, with pranayama and mantra, plus a small 5-10 min dose of vipassana (called self-inquiry around here) at the end of the session will win you the best experience. You will set a foundation of inner well-being with shamatha, while slowly tip-toeing into the deep end. A lot of us, including me, have spent time banging the old head against the wall trying to maximize one side or the other. But the best way is the sane and balanced approach.

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I'd love to hear your thoughts on the following. As Christi has already pointed out, combining practices is recommended against by Goenka. In the book "The clock of vipassana has struck" Goenka is cited explaining how mantra meditation aims at bringing one in tune with a certain vibration (that of the specific mantra) while in Vipassana as taught by Goenka one observes any vibration as it occurs. At the beginning of the Vipassana retreat, it is explained more than once that by mixing practices one may do more harm than good: with one leg on one horse and another leg on another horse accidents are likely to happen :)

Now, specifically thinking of combining IAM DM and body sweeping: Do you feel the ayp horse and the Vipassana horse can galop together harmoniously or are they likely to galop in a different direction along the path so that it'd be wiser to choose one horse only?

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Christi mentioned premature crown chakra opening with the body sweeping technique, describing it as a powerful energetic practice. My personal limited experience agrees with the power of the energy practice:
During the Vipassana retreat, as soon as the body sweeping practice was started (on the fourth day, after 3 days of observing breath and sensations around the nose area), I had kundalini experiences, loosing equanimity (eg. body shaking strongly, burning heat, strong headache, and a feeling that body was about to levitate if I'd not interrupt meditating). With further practice and after talking to the teacher of the retreat, I became more at ease with the body sweeping to the level that I'm now very comfortable sweeping up from the crown chakra to the toes and back.

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

That said, the main difference between Tolle's "sensing the inner body" and the "sweeping the body" technique is that with Tolle, you eventually sense the life force in the whole body as one cohesive unit, and eventually "listen using the whole body sensation".

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Originally posted by adamantclearlight
Okay so I just finished "Vipassana Meditation" by Goenka. One does the body sweeping until one can maintain concentration over the whole body. That's what I thought.

Adamant

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
From reading The Discourse Summaries (again for the third time), it seems evident to me that Goenka is saying that Buddha is the only person in history to discover that bodily sensations are the key to purifying the mind by eradicating craving and aversion.

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Your statements are producing craving in my mind. :) How lucky you are to have attended such a retreat!

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

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Originally posted by Ruben
For this reason, and as it seems appealing intellectually to combine a shamatha practice with vipassana, I consider combining ayp (spinal breathing and DM mainly) with vipassana (but not during the retreats of course).

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Is this not a form of craving?

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Goenka specifically states that one should not use fabricated mental constructs to focus on, such as a mantra. In order to initiate the cleansing process or eradication of past sankharas (mental formations), one must focus on the body and the sensations that arise with equanimity. So, in my opinion, Adamant's statements are much too general, resembling blanket statements which need to be further defined.

In plain English, if you don't get right down into the details of what each practice consists of, to say "A twice daily routine of shamatha practice, with pranayama and mantra, plus a small 5-10 min dose of vipassana (called self-inquiry around here) at the end of the session will win you the best experience." is meaningless. Sounds more like an unsolicited endorsement of some kind.

And, Goenka is saying that mantra repetition is not going to eradicate the sankharas. One must wait until they arise, observe them with equanimity until they release and continute until the next deeper batch is ready to be released..

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Originally posted by adamantclearlight
Essentially, when one is pursuing only insight practice, one's chakras and channels have not been softened by yoga. One is taking insight as the yoga. So one must patiently wait for the channels to open for the insight to happen. Then, even after the channels open, there is the flush of obstructions that causes really a lot of suffering. Because one is not practicing pranayama and shamatha, the suffering can only be overcome by more insight practice, so one must remain in retreat. If you leave retreat during this time, those half-open channels and half-flushed obstructions will remain like gunky crap in a sink drain, and make you feel crappy until you finally flush them out.

In the AYP approach its a little opening on the chakra side and a little opening on the insight side (pranayama and mantra). The insight side comes after several months or years of channel softening. It's like cow skin. It has to be tanned and treated before it is supple and soft leather. You have to work it over and over. But if you get it soft, you can use it for whatever you want, make shoes, gloves, drums, etc.

If you take that time to soften the channels, then the insight will naturally happen. So, unless you are going to follow the retreat route to completion, it's better not to start it. Because once you start it, you will have to finish the course. Insight glimpses just make you more hungry for more insight."

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
I have found that "sensing the inner body" is one of the most powerful practices that I have found. I do both mantra repetition, pranayama, spinal breathing (my customized AYP practices) and every now and then, when I don't want to sleep at night (ha ha) I will do 35 minutes or more of "sensing the inner body". At the end of it, I no longer feel my physical body as I become a cloud of magnetic bliss, dissociated and floating around.. However, I keep the practices separate by three or four hours and do it only on weekends or when I'm feeling sick or down because it is way too easy to overload.

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
And, thanks again. I now understand that I must relinquish my craving for these sensations and learn to view them with more equanimity.

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Anyway, I hope this helped you in your contemplation of mixing practices. One word of advice, the guru is in you, and if you seek guidance and direction from members on a forum, you leave yourself open to influences (sometimes with alterior motives) that may or may not be to your best advantage.

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If I remember rightly, Goenka says - paraphrasing the Buddha - that the technique as taught by the Buddha 2500 years ago has existed long before the Budhha. Only, the technique had been forgotten and the Buddha's contribution was to rediscover it. Goenka says the Buddha did not claim the technique to be his.

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This does not mean that one should observe individual thoughts.
If you try to do that, you will start rolling in the thoughts. You should simply remain aware of the nature of the mind at this moment; whether craving, aversion, ignorance. and agitation are present or not. And whatever arises in the mind. The Buddha discovered, will be accompanied by a physical sensation. Hence whether the meditator is exploring the mental or the physical aspect of the phenomenon of awareness of sensation is essential.
This discovery is the unique contribution of the Buddha, of central importance in his teaching. Before him in India and among his contemporaries, there were many who taught and practised sila and samadhi. Panna also existed, at least devotional or intellectual wisdom: it was commonly accepted that mental defilements are the source of suffering, that craving and aversion must be eliminated in order to purify the mind and to attain liberation. The Buddha simply found the way to do it.

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"Feeling the entire body I shall breath in";
thus he trains himself.
"Feeling the entire body shall breathe out";
thus he trains himself.

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In The Power of Now, bestselling author Eckhart Tolle introduced the idea of the “inner body—a field of energy within and around all of us which we can use as a portal to access the dimension of what he calls “stillness” or “presence”.

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The Inner Body Meditation

Sit comfortably, in an upright chair or on a cushion on the floor. Sit with your spine erect. Close the eyes. And begin by turning your attention inward, on your breath. Don’t try to change your breath. Just be aware of the inhale, and exhale, as it is now.

Keep feeling the breath. If thoughts arise, just notice them. Return your attention to your breathing.

Now bring your attention to your body. Scan the body from head to toe and toe to head, noticing if there is any tension, tightness, or pain. I call this the outer layer of sensations. Just feel the sensations in the body. If the mind comes in, which it may naturally do, try to label your experience—“Oh, this area is tight”, “Oh, I’m in pain”—drop those labels. And just feel. Without the label, all of it is sensation.

Breathe into those sensations. Relax the body.

You may notice that as you bring your awareness to these sensations in your body, those areas that are tight, where there is tension, simply dissolve. We are not, however, trying to get rid of these things. We’re just noticing. And in that still aware noticing we can say the healing takes place—the dissolving of the tension, the tightness, and perhaps even the pain.

Keep being aware of your breath and the sensations in the body.

Now become aware of the inner body. If you don’t know what I mean by this term, simply hold your hands up in front of you—palms facing toward you. Make sure your hands are not touching anything. If you’d like you can rest your elbows on your lap or on your pillow. Make sure your eyes are still closed. And you can ask yourself—how do I even know I have hands? And just feel.

Perhaps you feel a slight tingling, a warmth, a numbness, or an aliveness. This is the inner body—that feeling of aliveness within. Perhaps it’s subtle; other times it could be very strong. Just keep feeling the sensation—the inner sensation, the inner body, of your hands.

At any time you can put your hands down, onto your lap. And now bring your attention to your arms. Feel the sensation in your arms. Don’t worry if you can’t feel the arms. Just go back to feeling your hands. Now feel your arms and hands together. Become aware of your shoulders. How do you even know you have shoulders?

Now feel your hands, arms, and shoulders together.

Bring your attention to the front part of your body—the chest, the abdomen.

Now feel your back—the spine, the shoulder blades.

Now feel your hands, arms, shoulders, and front and back of the body together.

As I mentioned, don’t worry if there is a certain part of the body that you cannot feel. Just go back to a part that you can feel.

Now become aware of your hips—the whole hip area. The buttocks, the pelvis, the hips. Breathe into them. Feel the sensations.

Now feel your hips, pelvis, buttocks, torso, the upper part of your body—the back part of your body, your shoulders, your arms, your hands together.

Don’t make any judgments about the sensations or try to interpret them, or even label them—just feel.

Now bring your attention to your legs. Feel the thighs. Are they relaxed? Feel your knees. The shins. Calves. And your ankles.

Now feel all of the parts of your body—between your ankles and your neck.

Keep feeling. Keep sensing. Keep your awareness on the inner body.

Bring your attention to your feet. How do you know you even have feet? What does it feel like? Is it warm and tingly? Cool or numb? Or alive?

Now feel your feet, legs, hips, upper body, back, shoulders, arms, and hands together.

Keep feeling and also be aware of the breath.

Now bring your attention to your neck. Then to your head. Feel your face. Your ears. Your forehead. Your jaw. Relax the jaw. Relax the forehead. Feel the top of your head, the crown.

Breathing, feeling.

Now feel your entire body as one single energy field. The inner body. The feeling of aliveness within. The qi flowing. The life force pulsating.

Stay connected to the inner body.

If thoughts arise, just notice them. Let them go and return to feeling the inner body. Feeling your breath.

Stay connected to the inner body. It’s your bridge, your access, to stillness, consciousness, life itself—the creative energy that’s within you, within the universe. It’s not your energy; it’s life energy, wishing to create through you. It moves through you.

Remain seated for as long as you wish, feeling the aliveness within. And when you’re ready, you can slowly open the eyes. But continue feeling the inner body. Stay seated for a few moments before rising to your feet.

And when opportunity arises, throughout your day, see if you can tap into feeling the inner body. You can just simply feel the hands. Feel it for thirty seconds, for one minute. Feel it when you’re stopped at a stop light or waiting for an elevator, or inside the elevator. It’s always here, if you’re willing to feel, quiet the mind, and become aware of the life energy within you.

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Hi Maheswari,:)
Perhaps it is true or not. I don't know. But this is what Goenka said in "The Discourse Summaries:
link: http://www.gurusfeet.com/files/budd...ersion.1.pdf

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This does not mean that one should observe individual thoughts.
If you try to do that, you will start rolling in the thoughts. You should simply remain aware of the nature of the mind at this moment; whether craving, aversion, ignorance. and agitation are present or not. And whatever arises in the mind. The Buddha discovered, will be accompanied by a physical sensation. Hence whether the meditator is exploring the mental or the physical aspect of the phenomenon of awareness of sensation is essential.
This discovery is the unique contribution of the Buddha, of central importance in his teaching. Before him in India and among his contemporaries, there were many who taught and practised sila and samadhi. Panna also existed, at least devotional or intellectual wisdom: it was commonly accepted that mental defilements are the source of suffering, that craving and aversion must be eliminated in order to purify the mind and to attain liberation. The Buddha simply found the way to do it.

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Hi Ruben, :)
Thank you for the interchange.
Yes, the final point of sweeping the body is to feel the whole body as one cohesive unit. From "The Discourse Summaries" Buddha said: (link above)

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"Feeling the entire body I shall breath in";
thus he trains himself.
"Feeling the entire body shall breathe out";
thus he trains himself.

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Tolle's inner body is this:
link: http://www.soundstrue.com/guide/med...sson_more_14

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In The Power of Now, bestselling author Eckhart Tolle introduced the idea of the “inner body—a field of energy within and around all of us which we can use as a portal to access the dimension of what he calls “stillness” or “presence”.

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Here is Tolle's Inner Body Meditation (Kim Eng):
link: http://www.soundstrue.com/guide/med...sson_more_14

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The Inner Body Meditation

Sit comfortably, in an upright chair or on a cushion on the floor. Sit with your spine erect. Close the eyes. And begin by turning your attention inward, on your breath. Don’t try to change your breath. Just be aware of the inhale, and exhale, as it is now.

Keep feeling the breath. If thoughts arise, just notice them. Return your attention to your breathing.

Now bring your attention to your body. Scan the body from head to toe and toe to head, noticing if there is any tension, tightness, or pain. I call this the outer layer of sensations. Just feel the sensations in the body. If the mind comes in, which it may naturally do, try to label your experience—“Oh, this area is tight”, “Oh, I’m in pain”—drop those labels. And just feel. Without the label, all of it is sensation.

Breathe into those sensations. Relax the body.

You may notice that as you bring your awareness to these sensations in your body, those areas that are tight, where there is tension, simply dissolve. We are not, however, trying to get rid of these things. We’re just noticing. And in that still aware noticing we can say the healing takes place—the dissolving of the tension, the tightness, and perhaps even the pain.

Keep being aware of your breath and the sensations in the body.

Now become aware of the inner body. If you don’t know what I mean by this term, simply hold your hands up in front of you—palms facing toward you. Make sure your hands are not touching anything. If you’d like you can rest your elbows on your lap or on your pillow. Make sure your eyes are still closed. And you can ask yourself—how do I even know I have hands? And just feel.

Perhaps you feel a slight tingling, a warmth, a numbness, or an aliveness. This is the inner body—that feeling of aliveness within. Perhaps it’s subtle; other times it could be very strong. Just keep feeling the sensation—the inner sensation, the inner body, of your hands.

At any time you can put your hands down, onto your lap. And now bring your attention to your arms. Feel the sensation in your arms. Don’t worry if you can’t feel the arms. Just go back to feeling your hands. Now feel your arms and hands together. Become aware of your shoulders. How do you even know you have shoulders?

Now feel your hands, arms, and shoulders together.

Bring your attention to the front part of your body—the chest, the abdomen.

Now feel your back—the spine, the shoulder blades.

Now feel your hands, arms, shoulders, and front and back of the body together.

As I mentioned, don’t worry if there is a certain part of the body that you cannot feel. Just go back to a part that you can feel.

Now become aware of your hips—the whole hip area. The buttocks, the pelvis, the hips. Breathe into them. Feel the sensations.

Now feel your hips, pelvis, buttocks, torso, the upper part of your body—the back part of your body, your shoulders, your arms, your hands together.

Don’t make any judgments about the sensations or try to interpret them, or even label them—just feel.

Now bring your attention to your legs. Feel the thighs. Are they relaxed? Feel your knees. The shins. Calves. And your ankles.

Now feel all of the parts of your body—between your ankles and your neck.

Keep feeling. Keep sensing. Keep your awareness on the inner body.

Bring your attention to your feet. How do you know you even have feet? What does it feel like? Is it warm and tingly? Cool or numb? Or alive?

Now feel your feet, legs, hips, upper body, back, shoulders, arms, and hands together.

Keep feeling and also be aware of the breath.

Now bring your attention to your neck. Then to your head. Feel your face. Your ears. Your forehead. Your jaw. Relax the jaw. Relax the forehead. Feel the top of your head, the crown.

Breathing, feeling.

Now feel your entire body as one single energy field. The inner body. The feeling of aliveness within. The qi flowing. The life force pulsating.

Stay connected to the inner body.

If thoughts arise, just notice them. Let them go and return to feeling the inner body. Feeling your breath.

Stay connected to the inner body. It’s your bridge, your access, to stillness, consciousness, life itself—the creative energy that’s within you, within the universe. It’s not your energy; it’s life energy, wishing to create through you. It moves through you.

Remain seated for as long as you wish, feeling the aliveness within. And when you’re ready, you can slowly open the eyes. But continue feeling the inner body. Stay seated for a few moments before rising to your feet.

And when opportunity arises, throughout your day, see if you can tap into feeling the inner body. You can just simply feel the hands. Feel it for thirty seconds, for one minute. Feel it when you’re stopped at a stop light or waiting for an elevator, or inside the elevator. It’s always here, if you’re willing to feel, quiet the mind, and become aware of the life energy within you.

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:)
TI

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Originally posted by harmony

This is a great thread.

I would like to ask anyone who has completed a 10 day Vipassana retreat (SN Goenka style) if there is an equivalent or comparable technique to Samyama in that practice.

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