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lmaher22
USA
217 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 05 2011 : 11:01:51 PM
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| I've always been attracted to the buddhist line of thinking, either Zen or the Chinese Chen. I noticed, just a bit, that some of the practices here move just a bit off center of buddhism. It's not really a big deal but the life of the Buddha and some of the great teachers that followed him were always appealing... Maybe I do have one question someone can answer for me: many of the "Buddhas" spent years in intensive training and study, which of course included hours of meditation everyday. I'm just curious how some can advance so quickly using AYP method? Not saying I don't believe it. It's just a little 'wonderous'. Perhaps they were born with special gifts? Thanks and please don't take my question the wrong way. Everyone in AYP has been terrific to me. |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2011 : 02:35:03 AM
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| If you really understand what a buddha is, you gain a perspective how far off that level is. A buddha is omniscient. Despite what various buddhist schools claim, no one ever reached a level of output like Buddha no matter what system was followed. Basically, yoga works. Just do it. It's not that big a mystery once you learn how it functions. The level we can attain is still really high. It's not magic. It's a process of transformation of consciousness rooted in biology. |
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lmaher22
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2011 : 09:18:00 AM
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| Obviously there is tons of stuff I don't understand. I didn't mean to seem like a wiseguy. I guess I shouldn't say just anything that comes to mind. Please forgive me again. |
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Zelebe
Netherlands
35 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2011 : 2:33:21 PM
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Hi Imaher22,
Chinese zen (Ch'an) or Zen (Zen is brought from China to Japan) and Yoga are just two different schools which ultimately lead to the same goal: enlightenment or liberation. It's just up to the individual to choose which school appeals to him or her the most.
In Zen all the experiences you have on the road are to be viewed as scenery (just like in AYP). Traditionally in Zen, of personal experiences along the 'way' is not spoken (much of), because it distracts of the end goal.
Zen, with it's direct pointing to the mind, is more abstract then Yoga or AYP, and therefore more difficult to grasp for the western practitioner. But that is also the purpose because liberation or enlightenment is beyond the 'normal' mind.
In my opinion (I also practice Chinese Zen) AYP is more concrete and more easily accesible for the western practitioner. The lessons are put online for free and the experiences of all AYP practitioners are discussed openly on this forum, which makes AYP very courageous and unique.
To come to the point: with AYP the sightseeing and milestones along the road are much better documented and reported than in Zen, but there are not many people (of both schools) who experienced thoroughly the end goal. People here report their advances, a few are gifted indeed, a few other got their first experiences drug induced, but for most of us, just through long, hard sustained practice and an enduring mind. |
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lmaher22
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2011 : 9:53:36 PM
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Thank you so much Zelebe. I'm very ignorant as you can tell (hell I didn't even spell Ch'an correctly), but I'm learning from a lot of good people like yourself and Yogani. I've read a few of his books and man does he have some intense knowledge. Extremely brave of him also to put out this forum. I got lucky finding Yogani by just reading one of his books I found on Amazon. For some reason or other I then googled his name.
Thanks again.
L |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2011 : 07:33:49 AM
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Hi lmaher,
There are no stupid questions. I find AYP effective. But is anyone "advancing quickly"? .. towards enlightenment?? I very much doubt it. I don't think it's a matter of how fast you go.It's a journey, not a destination. I would encourage you to start AYP (if you haven't already) and see where it leads you and keep questioning. |
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lmaher22
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2011 : 6:04:45 PM
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| Thanks SS. I've been doing AYP for about a month. Not sure what to say other than it's given me more structure and hope; and access to some very intelligent people. |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2011 : 2:15:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lmaher22
Thanks SS. I've been doing AYP for about a month. Not sure what to say other than it's given me more structure and hope; and access to some very intelligent people.
Larry,
If someone gives you a cranky or unhelpful response, you don't need to feel uneasy. People are people. Some of the most spiritual people I have ever met, don't do Yoga, Tantra, Buddhism, or any other system. They just love people, including themselves. They are the ones who have "gotten the message".
Sometimes words are helpful and sometimes they are not. It's really situational, depending on the state of the nervous system of the person writing and the person reading.
If some words help you, then great! Use them as a tool, then forget about them, when they lose their value. Don't cling to them. Don't depend upon them.
The Buddha for example, was more masterful than most beings who have visited this world.. He spent a lot of time teaching us not to cling to concepts.. for example to say that God exists is foolish; to say that God doesn't exist is foolish. It is the concept in our mind that is the problem.. the concept is not the reality. What we are, what everything is, is beyond concepts.
Using concepts as tools then discarding them, and never clinging to them for even an instant.. this is something we all learn.
AYP practices can help you do this.. the silence that develops is beyond words..
Love,
Kev |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2011 : 2:58:21 PM
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| My point is that people fixate on becoming omniscient and attaining all the miraculous powers a fully enlightened Buddha has. This is a source of endless disappointment and frustration for people. When yoga is very simple. It's just the elements like winds dissolving, like into shushumna. If you have the heart of love, then the motive for doing practices is to serve all. The causation of this practice actually does help all beings, because all beings need peace, and by becoming an example of attaining peace, all beings become inspired. Sure abilities like clairvoyance are very real. They happen when they happen. Yes the realization is beyond concepts, but the practice is using concepts. When the concepts are very clear and straight, then practice is so easy to do. Personal emotional obstacles are difficult enough, without the path also being difficult to do. When it is easy to do, then it is easier to handle personal ordeal and to allow these to dissolve into stillness and even letting stillness dissolve into the state beyond thoughts. |
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vijikr
United Arab Emirates
413 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2011 : 3:18:28 PM
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Hi,
Yes for some people they go fast track and for others they go slow.
For few they dont do anything but get Enlightened..I think its because they have done some spiritual practice in previous birth/s and thats carried with us to the present birth and we continue from we left off previousily.So far those who got faster they have practiced it previousily and for others they have started it now so it'll take time. Mahaavatars like Budha,Krishna,christ are born AWAKE!
light n love |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2011 : 4:00:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nodoubt
My point is that people fixate on becoming omniscient and attaining all the miraculous powers a fully enlightened Buddha has. This is a source of endless disappointment and frustration for people. When yoga is very simple. It's just the elements like winds dissolving, like into shushumna. If you have the heart of love, then the motive for doing practices is to serve all. The causation of this practice actually does help all beings, because all beings need peace, and by becoming an example of attaining peace, all beings become inspired. Sure abilities like clairvoyance are very real. They happen when they happen. Yes the realization is beyond concepts, but the practice is using concepts. When the concepts are very clear and straight, then practice is so easy to do. Personal emotional obstacles are difficult enough, without the path also being difficult to do. When it is easy to do, then it is easier to handle personal ordeal and to allow these to dissolve into stillness and even letting stillness dissolve into the state beyond thoughts.
VERY nicely said. |
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