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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 3:30:07 PM
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Thanks Yogani 
Love!
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 4:05:08 PM
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PS: "Back-to-back" does not mean some sort of regimented repetition. It means just picking up with mental repetition and not planning anything as we use the mantra. It can get fast or slow, seem stuck in one constant pattern, or have no discernible tempo at all -- just a subtle feeling. None of this is determined by our will (the key point). The neurobiology is what determines it, depending on what is going on with purification and opening at the time, and this will keep changing (there can be experiential plateaus from time to time). This is why we say the experience can be anything, and we don't evaluate it. We just do the procedure. The results will show up in our daily activity, no matter what the experience in meditation may be.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 7:15:09 PM
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| Long live the mantra!! (yelled in the most primal and devotional of peaceful warrior voices, in the spirit of celebration, re: the above discussion of our beloved mantra). |
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Jaycee
United Kingdom
48 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2011 : 09:15:04 AM
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Yogani said:
quote:
PS: "Back-to-back" does not mean some sort of regimented repetition. It means just picking up with mental repetition and not planning anything as we use the mantra. It can get fast or slow, seem stuck in one constant pattern, or have no discernible tempo at all -- just a subtle feeling. None of this is determined by our will (the key point). The neurobiology is what determines it, depending on what is going on with purification and opening at the time, and this will keep changing (there can be experiential plateaus from time to time). This is why we say the experience can be anything, and we don't evaluate it. We just do the procedure. The results will show up in our daily activity, no matter what the experience in meditation may be.
Hi Yogani, I wonder if I can ask a sort of related (and probably, stupid) question? Is it OK to allow the mantra to repeat itself in time to the vibrational pulse (if it is felt) at the solar centre? Or would this be using our will to determine the tempo? |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2011 : 10:23:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaycee
I wonder if I can ask a sort of related (and probably, stupid) question? Is it OK to allow the mantra to repeat itself in time to the vibrational pulse (if it is felt) at the solar centre? Or would this be using our will to determine the tempo?
Hi Jaycee:
No such thing as a stupid question.
That may happen. The mantra may sync up with pulse, breath or other things, even external sounds outside. It can come and it can go. The point is not to favor any particular mode or experience. The mantra does its work as we easily favor it and allow it to change according to the inner purification and opening that it cultivates.
In the case of solar centering, which is an advanced enhancement in DM practice, we just easily favor the location as part of the mantra. The experience there (sensation or no sensation) is not for us to plan on or cling to, just like anything else in our meditation.
The guru is in you.
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yogesh
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2011 : 12:23:28 PM
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Thank you yogani for clarification on this...!
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Jaycee
United Kingdom
48 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2011 : 06:13:54 AM
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thanks for your reply, Yogani. |
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Nathan
47 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 5:43:30 PM
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| So it's okay if there are varying amounts of time in between repetitions (even a few seconds), and this is what Yogani means by "tempo," and it's only being off the mantra if we are noticing the time in between in an overt way, or controlling the amount of time in between repetitions? |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 6:10:58 PM
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| Yes mantra can be repeated at any pace (slow or fast) but no deliberate waiting after each repetition |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2011 : 07:07:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
PS: If we notice that the mantra is rattling on by itself at some level in the mind, that is also a signal to easily bring our attention back to the mantra. The rattling on of our mind is not the mantra. Our attention easily with the mantra is the mantra.
LOL!!!!
I have a mind that sometimes obnoxiously is saying the mantra just before I say the mantra. So it can be
Mind: I AM 
- I AM -
Mind: I Am  I AAAM
- I AM -
Mind: I, I, I AM AM AAAAM
- I AM -
Mind: iamiamiamaya, maya, maya.... 
etc It's hilarious!  |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2011 : 10:10:05 AM
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yogesh
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2011 : 11:49:48 AM
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funny stuff
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Nathan
47 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2011 : 1:37:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke
Yes mantra can be repeated at any pace (slow or fast) but no deliberate waiting after each repetition
Deliberate is a helpful word. Thanks again. |
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BuddhiHermit
United Kingdom
84 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2011 : 6:04:09 PM
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I can say this:
AYP DM will lead to a greater experience of Joy/Bliss
(Incorrect) DM as a form of AYP samyama (as described by Katrine) will lead to new levels of Silence, on a path more consistent with Buddhist, Zen, Tao, Hermetic, and Advaita approaches.
Namaste |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2011 : 07:37:48 AM
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Thanks everyone for this thread!
I have been doing the samyama style DM for the past couple of years because I thought that was right. What a spanner! I was just chasing experiences like a rabid dog chasing his tail (not a bad metaphor - this DM seems to be working).
No wonder I overloaded with samyama afterwards.
I bet Yogani is like: http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/...jpg&newest=1 |
Edited by - woosa on Jul 15 2011 08:54:00 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2011 : 08:53:34 AM
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Hi Woosa
Thanks for chiming in!
Isn't it great how Life turns everything into something useful if we let it....
I am glad my mistakes are good for something, at least they show what not to do :)
All the best with your "original style DM" |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2011 : 09:01:21 AM
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Same to you Katrine - good luck with the 'original DM style' (sounds hip-hoppy)
Least doing it wrong was good for something: I have been laughing at myself at how something so simple can be made confusing! Damn you mind!
Wish I was living with a Zen monk and s/he could hit me with a big stick at the right moments. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2011 : 12:58:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by woosa
Thanks everyone for this thread!
I have been doing the samyama style DM for the past couple of years because I thought that was right. What a spanner! I was just chasing experiences like a rabid dog chasing his tail (not a bad metaphor - this DM seems to be working).
No wonder I overloaded with samyama afterwards.
I bet Yogani is like: http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk169/revived5656/?action=view¤t=facepalm.jpg&newest=1
A good belly laugh here. Live and learn -- warp 1 before warp 10!
The guru is in you.
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Vayu
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2011 : 8:59:22 PM
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Is losing the mantra absolutely needed for DM procedure to work? Or is the vibrational quality of the mantra thats the main thing driving the purification(as mentioned in the main lesson)? Or is it that the number of times we lose the mantra and come back to it in a session thats useful? I understand that we should just favor the mantra after losing it. But Im worried that not losing the mantra at all or staying lost in it for too long means that I'm not following the procedure effectively(as in, only a very small fraction of the time spent in DM while having lost the mantra was useful). And if I am not losing the mantra, does that mean that the mantra is not refined enough at the current moment(which will eventually refine naturally)?
Also, will using the I AM mantra in samyama style(that is, thinking "I AM" and noticing the trailing vibrations of the mantra that follow it for a few seconds until repeating it again) have a completely different effect than DM? I find doing this much easier than DM, but will doing this not have any purification effects as DM does?
Thank you. |
Edited by - Vayu on Jul 31 2011 9:16:19 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
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willie
United Kingdom
36 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2011 : 09:06:13 AM
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This has been a great post for me. Thanks to all. I confess that I read some of it a couple of weeks ago and then never came back to it. Re-reading in now has really helped me to understand some of the errors and wrong assumptions I have made recently about the process. Wish I had looked before I leaped into asking questions which were actually answered here in the first place. Doh! In future I will be more careful in reading 
Anyway I really really appreciate the effort people have made in sharing their experiences, misunderstandings and progress. Very helpful to a newbie like me
Willie |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Aug 15 2011 : 2:43:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
PS: If we notice that the mantra is rattling on by itself at some level in the mind, that is also a signal to easily bring our attention back to the mantra. The rattling on of our mind is not the mantra. Our attention easily with the mantra is the mantra.
I found that very insightful, thank you!
my experience is similar to emc, where the mind 'rattles' its own version of the mantra, and I could not tell if that's still 'easily favoring it' or not, but that made it more clear. |
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Vayu
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2011 : 3:17:07 PM
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When bringing back the awareness to the mantra in a relaxed/non-concentrative way, which thing about the mantra is it that we are bringing our awareness to?
1. the process of thinking the mantra? (ie. the mantra being thought about).
2. the sound of the mantra that is happening at the current moment? Kinda similar to when we listen to music and have our relaxed attention to mostly the front of the music(the most recent 1-3 second)?
Im not sure if these make sense to others. I think (1) is more general awareness, and I lose the mantra more frequently/easily. And (2) is probably a slightly more specific awareness, and it takes a little longer to lose the mantra each time. But both feel to have the same level of relaxed, non-concentrative awareness. Does losing the mantra more often equal to more purification/better meditation? |
Edited by - Vayu on Aug 20 2011 4:06:35 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2011 : 4:10:58 PM
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Kind of 1) but simplified:
you're just beginning the mantra repetition again, not analyzing anything. |
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Letting go of the mantra
