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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 20 2011 : 6:54:38 PM
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Strong evidence that Christianity and many
religions may have Egyptian roots. By the way, this does not invalidate the effectiveness of any religion! because the guru is in you, and bhakti is our strongest tool, and can take many forms!:
This is not "proof" as it claims, but very interesting evidence of parallels between Christianity and Egyptian myths:
"Real Proof that Jesus was NOT real":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRK...ture=related
Not as scholarly in its presentation, but a comparison of Egyptian and
Christian symbolism:
Christianity is a Egyptian Myth - Horus, Isis, Mary, Jesus, God, Osiris
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1CW...ture=related
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2011 : 06:50:35 AM
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| Probably Sumerian roots then, since the Egyptians borrowed much of their religious culture from the Sumerians. But I think the main culprit here really is Constantine I and the Roman Empire, since they pretty much edited, wrote, and re-wrote the New Testament. There is a really good book about this called "The Gnostic Gospels" by Elaine Pagels. |
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mahabaratara
United Kingdom
92 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2011 : 1:38:21 PM
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| You cant discount Vedic influence as there is some evidence to suggest links with India and Egypt. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2011 : 7:28:08 PM
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| Yes and then where did those people get it from? The farther back you go, the less records there are. The sumerians had quite a bit of stuff about aliens from space influencing them. But the interesting part is the virgin birth, december 25th, three kings, miracles, crucifixion, resurrection, etc. being common to many many religions, and it all comes from astronomy. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 21 2011 7:29:06 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2011 : 9:07:16 PM
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Hi Etherfish,
I took a look at the video. The claims are new to me. I found an article in wikipedia about the argument that the video is based on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharya_S
I am not opposed to looking at Jesus through the lens of comparative myth, but doing a quick evaluation, but I do not find this account at all persuasive. Aside from the question of whether Horis is being portrayed accurately in the video, there is the glaring problem of the presumption that Jesus was born on December 25.
The first documented used of Dec. 25 to celebrate the birth of Jesus was about 400 years after his death. Going back to the earliest record about Jesus' birth, in the the year 200, the Egyptian Christian Clement of Alexandria examined several dates for celebrating the birth of Jesus, and none were even close to Dec. 25.
http://www.bib-arch.org/e-features/christmas.asp
Things that make you go Hummm.
Be
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Edited by - bewell on Feb 21 2011 9:30:01 PM |
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2011 : 10:24:16 PM
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| Well, the account that I read was that Dec. 25th was originally the final day of the Roman holiday Saturnalius and Sol Invictus. Saturnalius was very important for the Roman military and Constantine I basically made a deal with them to keep the date of the holiday the same, but make it Jesus' birthday. More than likely Jesus was a Pisces since his birth was during the Piscerian Equinox according to some astrologers, but history is not a perfect science, so who knows for sure. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2011 : 11:04:17 PM
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Very interesting you guys.
Bewell, I'm not trying to say it proves anything. Actually, Jesus means a lot to me, and it has nothing to do with whether he was real or not. But why the long list of other religions celebrating december 25th also?
Yes, i've heard they moved his birthday.
I think all religions are surrounded by myth, and it's OK.
The whole idea of the son of God being crucified by man speaks to me because I've been in many situations where I am in the right, and made wrong by everyone around me. But then I think of Jesus, and suddenly i don't feel sorry for myself anymore.
Yes - Hmmmmmm |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2011 : 5:27:51 PM
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A lingering question in my mind had to do with whether the video was a fair portrait of Horus. That is a question for Egyptologists. I found a wikipedia article that settled that question for me. The answer is no. Here is the relevant paragraph:
"Self-taught amateur Egyptologist Gerald Massey argued that the deity of Horus and Jesus shared identical mythological origins in his 1907 book Ancient Egypt, the light of the world.[12] His views have been repeated by theologian and Toronto Star columnist Tom Harpur, author Acharya S, and political comedian Bill Maher.[13][14][15] Theologian W. Ward Gasque composed an e-mail to twenty leading Egyptologists, including Professor Emeritus of Egyptology at the University of Liverpool Kenneth Kitchen, and Professor of Egyptology at the University of Toronto Ron Leprohan. The e-mail detailed the comparisons alleged by Massey which had been repeated by Harpur. The scholars were unanimous in dismissing any similarities suggested by Massey, and one Egyptologist criticized the comparison as "fringe nonsense."[16]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_...ve_mythology |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2011 : 9:06:49 PM
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| Thanks bewell. good stuff. I wish they went into more detail about what they're talking about. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2011 : 04:20:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
The scholars were unanimous in dismissing any similarities...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_...ve_mythology
In the article they point out an impressive similarity in form between a bronze statue of Isis nursing Horus dating from the Ptolemaic dynasty of Egypt; on the right is a famous medieval icon of Mary and Jesus.
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/...AndHorus.JPG
But they are also clear that according to Egyptologists, the parallels end there. For example, Isis was not a virgin, and Horus did not have 12 disciples. |
Edited by - bewell on Feb 23 2011 04:40:35 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2011 : 8:44:57 PM
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Thanks B,
I thought the nursing thing was the weakest evidence of all. i mean, how likely is it that every nursing mother would hold their baby that way?
I thought Isis may not have been a virgin, but wasn't Horus a spermless birth?
I think there were other similarities also, but what about that long list of other religions that are supposed to share december 25th etc? I wonder if any of it is true. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2011 : 06:09:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I thought the nursing thing was the weakest evidence of all. i mean, how likely is it that every nursing mother would hold their baby that way?
I look at it kind of like branding in marketing. As Christianity evolved into an established religion, artist went to work coming up with a visual images to represent their faith, and the mother child icon emerged as one of the greats. It was not the only. The earliest icon on grave markers was a "good shepherd," a man carrying a lamb on his shoulders.
I'm pretty impressed by the similarity, and it is striking enough to makes me wonder whether artists might have somehow been influenced by the earlier image of Horus.
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I thought Isis may not have been a virgin, but wasn't Horus a spermless birth?
All I know about Horus is what I can find on Wikipedia, and here is what I just read about his birth:
"Horus was born to the goddess Isis after she retrieved all the dismembered body parts of her murdered husband Osiris, except his penis which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by a catfish, and used her magic powers to resurrect Osiris and fashion a gold phallus to conceive her son. Once Isis knew she was pregnant with Horus, she fled to the Nile Delta marshlands to hide from her brother Set who jealously killed Osiris and who she knew would want to kill their son. There Isis bore a divine son, Horus."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
...what about that long list of other religions that are supposed to share december 25th etc?
"Dec. 25," is the date of the winter solstice according to the Julian calendar, and cross culturally, there are a lot of celebrations on that day. This article has a nice list of them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice
About the birth of Jesus. It is filling some gaps in a particularly modern way to call it "spermless birth." The accounts in Matthew suggest that Joseph was not the father, and that somehow, God was. In that period, they did not think of human fertility the way we do. We think of it as man providing sperm, woman egg, with both providing equal genetic contributions. In the time when the gospels were written, they used an agricultural metaphor for human fertility with man providing seed, and woman providing soil. In that view, Mary provided good soil, God somehow provided seed. A seed is a very mysterious thing, and when for example a wheat seed is planted, it blends in with the soil. In the New Testament, the seed/soil mystery is a metaphor for the word/power of God in transforming the human heart, mind and spirit.
Be |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2011 : 07:58:05 AM
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Very interesting. Actually scientists today know that a virgin birth is possible. The man provides additional DNA which allows the baby to become more diverse, because a virgin birth would have to be a clone of the mom (unless of course God provided additional DNA).
We are all women when conceived, then the additional chromosome to be a man comes later. So the whole concept of man being an equal and superior to women is not true. We are only necessary to provide diversity. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2011 : 1:12:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Very interesting. Actually scientists today know that a virgin birth is possible.
Etherfish
Etylogically parthenogenesis maans "reproduction without fertilization," 1849, from Gk. parthenos "virgin" + genesis. I read the wikipedia article on parthenogenesis here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis
In terms of interpretation of the accounts of the virginal conception of Jesus, I see no applicability.
If we are speaking biologically, it seems best assume that the historical man Jesus, was conceived by the union of a sperm and an egg as a result of ordinary sexual intercourse. The part about God's involvement is myth -- myth is any attempt to bring the activity of "God" into the picture.
That's the interpretive lens I bring to the table of New Testament interpretation.
Be
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Edited by - bewell on Feb 24 2011 1:15:18 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2011 : 9:15:33 PM
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I think you're right. Although parthenogenesis occured when the ancient Greeks built the parthenon, Ha ha! ,
it naturally only occurs in lower life forms like the Komodo dragon, turkeys and lower. AND the result is always female, because it is similar to cloning.
Well, I believe God exists, but don't believe any of the stuff written about him that contains human attributes;
"he is a jealous god", an angry god, favors certain chosen people, helps some win wars etc.
I think Jesus was probably a real man, and probably his teachings in the bible are real. Those are what I follow, not the rest that has been added on later, and because of that I would not be classified as Christian by most modern churches! how ironic. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2011 : 9:16:07 PM
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There was a first century Greek historian named Plutarch who wrote, "The Egyptians believe, not implausibly, that it is not impossible for the spirit of a god to approach a woman and procure in her certain beginnings of parturition." Yet he argues that it ought to happen the other way around, and that a man ought to be able to have intercourse with a goddess. (cited in Raymond Brown's book on the virginal conception)
http://books.google.com/books?id=a0...arch&f=false
Could that belief of the Egyptians have influenced the thinking of the New Testament authors, Matthew and Luke? Possibly so. But Brown finds lots of other historical parallels where great leaders were thought to be conceived by a god. This sort of belief seems to be some kind of cross cultural perennial myth. |
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Do religions have Egyptian roots? 2 vids
