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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 11 2011 : 11:31:02 PM
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Hi everyone,
I just don't understand the concept of having obstructions in my nervous system. What does that even mean? If there is an obstruction it should have an effect on my performance. Like I can't lift my little finger because the signal from my brain doesn't reach it properly. Or I can't perceive a signal from outside because I have some nerve damage in my ear. Or is the whole obstruction thing on a not physical level? Even though, that wouldn't make much sense to me because we are referring to something with a physical structure (the nerves). Is there any study done on this?
Am I the only one who seems to stupid to get that?
Yaming |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2011 : 11:54:21 PM
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There can't be a study done on it, because it doesn't belong to the world of science; it belongs to spirituality. The two are not compatible. Many things in spirituality are general and different for each person. In science you have to be specific, as your question is. you can't be specific when you are talking about a subject that is general.
For instance, what if you were an alien from another planet, and ask a human "What color is skin?"
There is no correct answer, because the question is too general. If you are talking about certain exotic lizards, the answer is bright orange.
It is the same with spiritual questions. The answer is different for everyone. Often obstructions in the nervous system are stored emotions, but it could be something else like drug residue, scar tissue, a parasite, fungus, virus, shrapnel, it doesn't matter, they are all obstructions that seem to go away with continued practices like meditation. But the word obstruction is used because we know it it something that must change for energy to flow better, and it doesn't matter what it is as long as we know how to remove it.
PS It often becomes apparent what it was as it is removed. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 11 2011 11:57:51 PM |
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2011 : 12:57:13 AM
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Thanks for your answer, Etherfish. Well I think that there are people who are trying to combine science and spirituality and I think it's worth trying it. One of them is Yogani, as he is looking for a university that would step into applied spiritual science (http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....s=university). And he is not the only one who has the idea to combine those two fields.
You are probably right, that it might not be able to measure obstructions in the nervous system. But who knows maybe it is possible and the obstruction has an effect on the physical structure. Beside that western science is still in it's infancy, it has been only a few hundret years since it started to develop on a broader base. IMO it has not reached it's far away from reaching its's full potential. And when you are saying that something needs to be removed so the energy can flow better, it is already a starting point where science could try to step in. Energy is most likely measurable, maybe not this kind of energy (at the current state of development). But that doesn't mean that it is not something that can't be captured. Infrared was also unknown till the right instruments were developed. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2011 : 6:10:00 PM
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Acupuncture uses this language of "obstructions in the nervous system" and it is a kind of science:
"The classical Chinese explanation is that there are channels of energy running through the body and over its surface in regular patterns. These energy channels, called meridians, are like rivers flowing through the body... The needles unblock the obstructions and reestablish the regular flow of energy."
http://flacupuncture.com/obstruction.html
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2011 : 6:19:15 PM
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Hi Bewell,
I know that acupuncture is using the same term. But I didn't think of it^^ But I see there a difference. In AYP we are talking about the nervous system, while acupuncture is talking about the meridians. But maybe there is a conectionm, which I'm not aware off right now. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2011 : 7:42:26 PM
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The science that Yogani would like to see developed in universities, is that there are known methods, notably meditation, that have an almost universal effect of directing the individual toward enlightenment.
This is completely different from the western science perspective that would be to analyze what are obstructions, what is enlightenment, and attempt to isolate and identify and manipulate them.
Of course, anyone is free to pursue those useless objectives, but the idea of applied spiritual science is to teach people the easy way to become enlightened. Once they are well on their way, then let them attempt to analyze if they still have the desire (they won't because at that point they will see it is different for every individual).
However, if you are truly interested in studying such things, the easiest path is meditate as taught in the lessons and books, and as your obstructions are removed, keep records, and come back here and compare with others.
PS yes I think acupuncture has a lot in common with it, much more than western medicine. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 12 2011 7:44:34 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2011 : 9:04:52 PM
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Hey Yaming, I think the word "obstructions" is quite common simply because we don't really know the specific answer here. Yet.
I'm not sure what the answer is here, which is another way to say I don't know 
I can tell you that there really are such things as obstructions. They're very real. And as etherfish explained, they can take on a variety of forms. Is it a problem with the nervous system? It can be, but they are not limited to that. I tend to think of obstructions more as dirty eyeglasses. You know, ...if the doors of perception where cleansed... type of thing.
So for metaphor or analogy, you can say a kink in the hose, or dirty windshield, whatever the heck you want. It kind of gets to the point even if we don't yet have the exact definition yet. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2011 : 9:11:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
The science that Yogani would like to see developed in universities, is that there are known methods, notably meditation, that have an almost universal effect of directing the individual toward enlightenment.
This is completely different from the western science perspective that would be to analyze what are obstructions, what is enlightenment, and attempt to isolate and identify and manipulate them.
Of course, anyone is free to pursue those useless objectives, but the idea of applied spiritual science is to teach people the easy way to become enlightened. Once they are well on their way, then let them attempt to analyze if they still have the desire (they won't because at that point they will see it is different for every individual).
However, if you are truly interested in studying such things, the easiest path is meditate as taught in the lessons and books, and as your obstructions are removed, keep records, and come back here and compare with others.
PS yes I think acupuncture has a lot in common with it, much more than western medicine.
Ether i totally disagree here.
While the Mystery remains and even deepens, life becomes a lot less mysterious the further down the path you go.
I think in a few decades, enlightenment will be the equivalent of good physical health. That is, knowing and practicing proper diet and hygiene etcetera, one reaches a certain level of health in all probablitity.
It will be something almost everyone can attain to some degree, and it will be quite matter of fact. It only seems unscientific and mysterious now because the methods and practices are intangible. Soon someone will build upon even what Yogani has put together and basically create an Enlightenment for Dummies book
The mystery will be gone. It will be clear, at first to one, then to a few, then to many. But the big Mystery will always remain  |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2011 : 11:31:14 PM
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I don't think you are disagreeing. Yogani has an enlightenment for dummies book - the little "Deep Meditation" book. It is not at all necessary to go into the more complicated stuff.
But knowing exactly how to do something well is not the approach that western science takes.
I don't call it science because western science wants to control everything and hold everything constant except one variable, then make measurements, experiments and observations (the "Scientific Method"). There must be exact repeatable phenomena under controlled conditions. And none of these are compatible with spirituality.
Yes, there is repeatable phenomena - meditation etc. leads to enlightenment. But you can never hold everything else in control as only that one thing is observed. Many things change as we are enlightened.
Of course, this is a common problem in western science, and they are running into the same difficulties in sub atomic physics. So science is beginning to change. But the vast majority of science is still dependent on the scientific method. Enlightenment is more of an art. It can be taught, but defies rigorous analysis. |
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2011 : 11:36:22 PM
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Hi Etherfish,
quote:
Etherfish Posted - Feb 12 2011 : 7:42:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The science that Yogani would like to see developed in universities, is that there are known methods, notably meditation, that have an almost universal effect of directing the individual toward enlightenment.
Well, but that doesn't mean science would be useless in it (both quotes are from yogani):
quote:
Hi Christi:
The short answer is that the sexual essences are the prana in motion in the nervous system on the physical level. The ecstatic experience is a symptom of this flow. Because of that connection, I think it is safe to say that anyone experiencing whole body ecstasy also has natural vajroli occurring. And, yes, this is a function of the purification of the entire nervous system (nadis).
It is really a question of how far we carry the neurobiology/prana relationship. Neurobiologically speaking, sexual essences are the source of ecstatic conductivity (kundalini), and the purification of the nervous system (corresponding nadis) by a full range of practices provides the opening for the process to move forward, yielding the spiritual experiences.
I am not saying that this physical/spiritual connection is absolutely how it is, going all the way in, but there is strong evidence that the connection between the neurobiology and spiritual experiences goes pretty far. Soma, amrita and ojas can be seen to be subdivisions of this, going to very refined substances finding their origin in the neurobiology also, as we have discussed previously. And you are right -- the presence of these substances is also evidence of natural vajroli, as is whole body mudra and other indicators of ecstatic bliss permeating the body and beyond.
Whether the neurobiology model of enlightenment turns out to be true in the long run is the question, isn't it? By taking this approach, many are given a handle on their experiences in terms of understanding the symptoms and underlying neurobiological changes that are clearly occurring. I have been asked literally hundreds of times in private, "Why is my spiritual ecstasy accompanied by sexual arousal?" The rise of natural vajroli is the reason. It is a component of kundalini awakening.
Putting the neurobiology out in front also hangs a big carrot out there for modern science to grab on to. There are plenty of things here that can be measured, and sooner or later science will get around to it. As many more practitioners come on line having these experiences (inevitable now), and the general lay of the land of the enlightenment process becomes more familiar everywhere, a fertile new field for scientific research will emerge.
Those who are more mystically inclined can ignore all the neurobiology and simply enjoy the ride, laughing all the way.
Either way, our bhakti and the maintenance of an effective daily practice routine will continue to be the engine for human spiritual transformation in individuals and the population at large.
Onward!
The guru is in you.
quote:
Obviously, such a university department would be multi-disciplinary, intersecting with neurology, biology, psychology, all the spiritual traditions, and a range of other disciplines. This is why a major university would be ideal, since the many supporting disciplines are already present.
To claim it is useless to use the tools of science in this matter is in my opinion totally short sighted. Why shouldn't one use it if it is there? Who knows maybe it reveals things that could make the practice even better. To exclude it would mean to shut down a possible channel of improvement.
Do I expect that science explains everything? No. Science has it's limitation as any other system. But if used smartly it can bring big benefits to us.
As stated by yogani, neurobiology and spirituality goes hand in hand to some degree. Does it mean that it will grasp spirituality? No. Does a research on a Beethoven Sonata, where everything is analyzed, explains why it is so beautifull to us? No. But it can tell us what physical structure is required to be able to produce something this wonderfull. It can go even further and analyze how to improve the physical structure. Does that mean everything is explained? No by far not. The beauty of the piece will only come through the playing of the artist, who is putting his feeling into it, and through us who can perceive it. Do we care if some scientist is analyzing it? I don't think so we just enjoy the journey that we are taking, led by the artist. ^^
If there are osbrtuctions in the nervous system, why shouldn't we be able to measure it? 1900 no one would have believed that we would be able to make pictures of the brain, they didn't even think that we have electrical currents in us...
Yaming
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2011 : 11:43:20 PM
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OK, fair enough - I agree. Actually I think science is changing because of what they are finding in subatomic physics, where the scientific method can't always be used.
I will be interested to hear what you discover in this matter.
Please come back here and report! |
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2011 : 12:08:49 AM
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Yeah I think that science is changing too. There had also been approaches to science which were more holistic, but it didn't seem to work out so far. Anyways, I'm not a scientist but I will keep my eyes open for it and let you know when something stumbles over my way.
About the obstructions and especially the overloading: I've read several times that if you overload you should cut back the practice and do grounding work, like eating heavier, physical exercises, martial arts etc. Now: is there a connection between overloading and grounding? If I'm already eating heavier does that mean I don't get as fast overloaded? Or let's say I'm doing heavy physical work every day, does that decreases the chance to overload? Or is there no connection between those two things? I know that overloading comes from too much purification that my nervous system can't handle. So how does the grounding get rid of the over purification.
Sorry too many questions at once. 
Tonightsight:
quote:
So for metaphor or analogy, you can say a kink in the hose, or dirty windshield, whatever the heck you want. It kind of gets to the point even if we don't yet have the exact definition yet.
lol ^^ I'm fine with not really knowing what it is. I'm just a curious person and I thought maybe there is a more clear explanation to it. Anyways, thanks for your reply! |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2011 : 12:18:25 AM
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| IDK - we know how to do it, not why or what makes it work. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2011 : 12:51:27 PM
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Hehehehe, it seems as if we're all on the same page essentially.
My point, which i did not explain very well , is that we will eventually be able to examine spiritually scientifically. To do this we will need the ability to measure some of the things we talk about here. We can do this, it is a matter of discovery.
Look at it this way... before europeans had explored the world, there was a lot of mystery surrounding the frontiers of the earth. Now, we have everything mapped out meter by meter.
So while spirituality seems like a nebulous idea, and generalizing is common on forums like these, we will eventually nail everything down into smaller and more precise categories. It will be done.
It just takes some hardy and capable souls to blaze the trail.
I'm telling you this will get done in our lifetimes. Feel free to disagree! |
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2011 : 1:32:03 PM
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Hi tonightsight,
quote:
My point, which i did not explain very well , is that we will eventually be able to examine spiritually scientifically. To do this we will need the ability to measure some of the things we talk about here. We can do this, it is a matter of discovery.
what do you mean by, that we will be able to examine spirituality scientifically? if I use the example of the Sonata again.. I don't see how science is capable of explaining why we are so touched by this music. It can perfectly break everything donw, but the essence stays a mistery.
quote:
So while spirituality seems like a nebulous idea, and generalizing is common on forums like these, we will eventually nail everything down into smaller and more precise categories. It will be done.
Yeah I think too that the approaches to spirituality will become much more precise over time. It's already a big step that Yogani did with the AYP lessons. It's especially possible, when more people will get involved who are not bound to dogmas and musts by their believe system. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2011 : 2:22:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Yaming
About the obstructions and especially the overloading: I've read several times that if you overload you should cut back the practice and do grounding work, like eating heavier, physical exercises, martial arts etc. Now: is there a connection between overloading and grounding? If I'm already eating heavier does that mean I don't get as fast overloaded? Or let's say I'm doing heavy physical work every day, does that decreases the chance to overload? Or is there no connection between those two things?
You don't need to worry about any of this. Yes, eating heavy and physical work lessen the chances of overload. But overload is pretty rare, and farther down the line. You should get plenty of warning before you approach that stage, and other stages come first, so don't worry. Just continue your normal lifestyle, and meditate twice a day as in the lessons and books. Deep Meditation is a good book to start with. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2011 : 4:57:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Yaming
Hi tonightsight,
quote:
My point, which i did not explain very well , is that we will eventually be able to examine spiritually scientifically. To do this we will need the ability to measure some of the things we talk about here. We can do this, it is a matter of discovery.
what do you mean by, that we will be able to examine spirituality scientifically? if I use the example of the Sonata again.. I don't see how science is capable of explaining why we are so touched by this music. It can perfectly break everything donw, but the essence stays a mistery.
quote:
So while spirituality seems like a nebulous idea, and generalizing is common on forums like these, we will eventually nail everything down into smaller and more precise categories. It will be done.
Yeah I think too that the approaches to spirituality will become much more precise over time. It's already a big step that Yogani did with the AYP lessons. It's especially possible, when more people will get involved who are not bound to dogmas and musts by their believe system.
Totally.
You're correct that art cannot be explained but must be experienced.
Spirituality is art just like that sonata.
Not everyone can create an amazing sonata, but we have made creation of sonata's in general accessible to the general population through computers.
50 years ago, hardly 10% of a given population knew what a sonata actually was. Now, anyone can look up how to write a sonata on the internets.
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2011 : 01:12:58 AM
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Etherfish,
thanks for your advice. I'm already meditating since 1.5 years in a different system. I decided to start with AYP though, and drop my current meditation for a while. Till I get the hang on AYP. I'm now about 2 or 3 weeks in. I'll probably add spinal breathing in another week or 2 (whenever it seems to be appropriate). Oh yeah and I've read the book Deep Meditation.
Tonightsight, yeah the information stream that is available now is amazing. If just the human consciousness could keep up with the speed that technology is developing... |
Edited by - Yaming on Feb 14 2011 01:24:35 AM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2011 : 03:02:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Yaming
Hi everyone,
I just don't understand the concept of having obstructions in my nervous system. What does that even mean?
I might not be right here but I guess the obstructions are what its called Knots (granthis).
See this:
http://www.kundaliniawakeningsystem...e-knots.html
and
http://www.swamij.com/kundalini-awakening-5.htm
The energy of Prana flows in the nadis, and the major vortices of the energy intersections are the chakras. Energy is concentrated and stored at these chakra intersections. They are the subtlety which is underneath, or provides the support for the nerve plexuses along the spine.
Three knots or granthis are broken: Along the Sushumna channel there are three knots (granthis) of energy that will be broken or untied along the upward journey of Kundalini Rising, allowing the flow to go into and through the various chakras above that point:
Brahma granthi: Blocking the flow from the first chakra, the root chakra, muladhara, upward to the others; related to bondage to desires.
Vishnu granthi: Blocking the flow from the third chakra at the navel, manipura, upward to the fourth chakra, anahata, the heart; related to bondage of actions.
Rudra granthi: Blocking the flow beyond the sixth chakra between the eyebrows, ajna chakra, upwards towards sahasrara; related to bondage of thoughts (compared to pure knowing).
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2011 : 07:46:57 AM
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| I am all for Yogani changing his Deep Meditation volume to Enlightenment For Dummies ! So cool! |
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obstructions in the nervous system?
