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chas
USA
209 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 23 2011 : 2:01:56 PM
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Edit: I agree wholeheartedly with the lesson here http://www.aypsite.org/304.html. I share my experience here with only the intent of helping those who are looking to improve their diet. If my experience doesn't resonate with you, please disregard. Many on this forum have pointed out that one can be "enlightened" on any diet.
Edit: 4 more amazon.com links added 
That said, some of my perceived benefits of improving diet:
Increased mental clarity. This is what I appreciate most from a clean diet.
Increased physical energy.
Increased feeling of life in the body.
Deeper levels of meditation with less mind chatter, and less erratic and smoother flowing "kundalini".
Lower incidence of disease.
Positive attitude, greater appreciation for life.
Increased mindfulness and capacity for compassion.
Better digestion.
My rating of common diets found in the western world, from worst to best (there are many variations of all of these. This is my opinion based on my experience and what I have learned ONLY. This is not absolute truth. Your mileage may vary :)
1. Not enough food to eat (malnutrition) 
2. Junk food/fast food dominated diet
3. Standard American
4. Common Vegetarian
5. Common Vegan
6. Common Raw Vegan (high fat)
7. Low fat, High fruit raw vegan (i.e. 80/10/10 or fruitarianism)
8? Breatharianism? Living on light? Does anyone here have extended experience in these?
I am not a certified nutritionist or M.D., but i do read a lot  I have experience in all of the diets listed above, except for #8. Each time that I have improved my diet on any level, I have noticed beneficial effects physically, mentally, and spiritually. I was eating 99% raw diet for approximately 2 years and had a lot of cleansing and purification happen during that time period. I am very glad that I did that and hope to go back to all raw some day. (i'm at around 80% raw (vegan) now, after a compromise with my -wife to be-, so that we could eat together :)
Common pitfalls to improving diet:
1. Not consuming enough calories. Make sure to track your calories when adjusting diet. With raw food, it will take a much larger bulk of food to get the same amount of calories. Caloric deficiency will be unhealthy for most people, and will cause craving. Even if one is "overweight", I feel it is better to increase intake of fruits and vegetables and keep caloric intake close to what it should be based on height/age etc.. (check a calorie calculator)
2. Too much dietary fat. This will clog up the system. Most people eat way too much fat. Raw vegans in particular, tend to eat an excess of fat in the form of nuts, seeds, avocados, etc., mostly in order to increase the caloric intake (either consciously, or subconsciously). As a result, the common raw vegan is eating 40-50% of calories from fat (similar to the dietary fat intake of an "average" american). These fats are usually high quality, so its not all bad. Still, the optimum fuel for the body comes from fruit sugars. I consider the optimum fat consumption to range from 10-25% of calories from fat, depending on the individual. This is consistent with the findings of the American Dietetic Association. Note: it is important regardless of your diet type, to have an idea of where your three macronutrient (carbohydrate, protein, fat) levels are. As indicated above, I consider (in terms of calories consumed from) 80% carb., 10% fat, 10% protein to be the best.
3. It is likely that improving diet too drastically at once can be detrimental as purification and elimination can be particularly intense at times. "self-pacing" would be most helpful here. Some people -can- deal well (relatively) with "drastic" measures. You should know if you are like that.
4. Watch out for approaching diet from a moral perspective. Don't fall into the trap of "my way is better than your way". Every individual has their own free will and goals to accomplish in this lifetime. As with anything else, the ego can (will) try to grasp and claim superiority. I would advise to respect your path and respect others paths.
A few good books on diet:
The China Study, T. Colin Campbell -
http://www.amazon.com/China-Study-C...80938&sr=1-1
Conscious Eating, Garbriel Cousens -
http://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Eat...82504&sr=1-1
Spiritual Nutrition, Gabriel Cousens - http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Nut...81051&sr=1-1
The 80/10/10 Diet, Douglas Graham - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/18..._rd_i=507846
Helpful for increasing knowledge & awareness of commercial food systems, and for increasing motivation for compassion practices/Ahimsa:
Eating Animals, Jonathan Safran Foer
http://www.amazon.com/Eating-Animal...p/0316069906
Fast Food Nation, Eric Schlosser -
http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Food-Nat...63042&sr=1-1
Earthlings, DVD -
http://www.amazon.com/EARTHLINGS-Jo...=8-1-catcorr
Food Inc, DVD -
http://www.amazon.com/Food-Inc-Eric...63912&sr=1-1
I hope this info can be of use to some..
Love to you all! |
Edited by - chas on Jan 31 2011 12:07:43 PM |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2011 : 7:58:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by chas
8? Breatharianism? Living on light? Does anyone here have extended experience in these?
Here's a thread you might find useful:
Living on light
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2011 : 8:40:26 PM
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| Thanks, cosmic. I read that thread recently. I would still like to hear from anyone who has extended experience with it. I might try an extended water fast this summer and see how it goes. |
Edited by - chas on Jan 23 2011 8:47:10 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2011 : 10:09:44 PM
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hi Chas, I agree diet (and hydration) can make huge differences in your life.
Each person has to find the best diet for themselves, and that may change over time. There is no optimum diet for everyone. There is quite a wide variety of diet needs depending on your body and the way you grew up and where.
I have to disagree about fruit sugars though. Most people have a hard time metabolizing fruit sugars except in small quantities. There are studies that show the youth obesity epidemic in the US is partially due to overconsumption of soft drinks containing High Fructose Corn Syrup, and fructose is fruit sugar. When you consume a lot, the body metabolyzes it like alcohol, and you can get fatty liver disease the same as alcoholics get.
Fructose is also too high on the glycemic index for most people. This creates all kinds of problems like irritation at a cellular level, insulin resistance, and other things.
Having said that, fructose consumed as a whole fruit is much better for you, but should still be kept to a minimum. Most fruits are bred to have a higher sugar content than they do in the wild. So a raw diet is very good, but needs to be low in sweet fruits.
If you go to Dr. Mercola's website and search for fructose, there are a lot of articles and studies referenced. Also you can get a free nutritional typing test to see what diet is optimal for you. Here is a vid of him talking about the different nutritional types; it's interesting:
http://products.mercola.com/nutritional-typing/
If you have to give your email to see it, it is safe and free to do so. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Jan 23 2011 10:32:26 PM |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2011 : 11:14:03 PM
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There is a big difference between glycemic index and glycemic load. Glycemic load has to do with how the sugar is delivered. Glycemic load is more comprehensive and useful for determining the effects of a particular food on the body. For example, bananas have a high glycemic index, but a low glycemic load. This is do to slow absorption because of the fiber and water present in them. The key is in wholeness. Most whole fruit is low in glycemic load. I, and many others eat from 6-10 bananas at a sitting, and it does not spike blood sugar to abnormally high levels. In fact, bananas are the most perfect food that I have experienced. I once ate nothing but bananas for an entire month. 30 a day! I felt great. I promptly got a full blood panel which revealed that everything was in range and was in fact exceptionally good. I have had blood sugar issues on previous diets, accompanied by adrenal fatigue and other problems. The movie "Simply Raw: Reversing diabetes in 30 days" is highly recommended. Here is a short intro: http://www.rawfor30days.com/index4.html
It is a documentary about raw diet and people who cure type 1 and type 2 diabetes through dietary changes. |
Edited by - chas on Jan 24 2011 3:44:07 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2011 : 11:46:39 PM
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| Yes, rate of absorption of sugar is very important and one reason why whole fruit is better than juice or fructose. But you will see in the video of Dr mercola above, that the amount of sugar should be kept low, for all nutritional types. |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2011 : 02:40:31 AM
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The issue is partly in the delivery method of sugar (including fructose) , and partly in the presence of fat in the bloodstream. The sugar is not harmful when consumed in its natural state, accompanied by low dietary fat...
Here is a video of Dr. Graham, author of the 80/10/10 diet, discussing candida, insulin, and sustained elevated blood sugar and its primary cause (being high fat): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsmcYRSvwGM
I agree that eating high fructose corn syrup and other refined carbohydrates is harmful. These are found in many common (modified, not whole) foods. But that is far different from eating whole, ripe, fresh, raw, organic fruits. Which is what I advocate here as the primary food source, for those so inclined. Vegetables are great too, although low in calories. Whole fruit is a great meal by itself. It is the most wholly nutritious type of food for the human body.
The most common problems people face when eating a lot of fruit have to do with what it is combing with in the digestive system. Most every food will digest slower than fruit. Fruit (and everything else) needs to get in and out preferably within 24 hours. Slowing that down with other foods will cause putrification of the fruit and the other foods in the system, leading to acidosis, and alcohol and more. Animal products really exacerbate this because they have no fiber and they release a lot of toxins into the body during digestion processes. True carnivores and omnivores produce much stronger acid and have much shorter large intestines to aid quick elimination (half a day or less), thus avoiding the toxicity. The human intestine, like other plant eaters, is very long and is designed for slow absorption of less toxic foods. If you are eating mostly whole plant foods and drinking enough water, there is plenty of fiber and water to keep things moving along comfortably, avoiding toxicity and digestive problems.
Regarding Dr. Mercola, I am familiar with his views, and I disagree with much of what he says, based on my understanding and experience. I didn't hear him say to limit fruit intake, but that the problem has to do with the consumption of refined carbohydrates. That, I agree with.
Regardless, I think that anyone interested might be well served to investigate different views (including ones own) and do whatever they are inclined to do.
Love |
Edited by - chas on Jan 24 2011 9:33:38 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2011 : 10:40:54 PM
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Interesting vid of Dr Graham. I wish he would reference the studies he is talking about re: fat and insulin; I can't find them on the net. Yes, Dr Mercola doesn't say to limit fruits in that vid; it is in other places on his website. Elsewhere he says to limit all sugars especially fructose, even whole fruits, and that low fat diets are dangerous, because the "good cholesterol" is essential to all cells and is a fat, and omega 3 etc. also comes from fat. So I can see why you disagree with him!
Anyway, I tried a fruitarian diet years ago and it was disastrous for me. I alternated feeling great with horrible headaches. I told myself I was just clearing out toxins. The headaches got worse and more frequent. When I started mixing in other foods I did better, then eventually cut out the fruit and did much better. I finally found out it is because I am a "mixed" nutritional type, and have low blood sugar. Eating sugar makes me produce too much insulin, and drives my blood sugar too low. Yes, whole fruit is not quite as bad as refined sugar, but I can only tolerate a little, and not by itself.
So now I find I do very well on a high raw diet, with a lot of salad type stuff but with meat or vegetable protein, and very little sugar.
So like you said, each person needs to find their own nutritional type, try it for some time and see how they feel. I think it is good to try different diets also, because some are addicting (like meat and potatoes)and could fool you as to the long term effects. And I believe high raw is good for everyone, taking in to account their protein and carb requirements. Mercola says veggies like broccoli are a good carb because they release sugars slowly, and white starches release them so fast they might as well be sugar.
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Edited by - Etherfish on Jan 24 2011 10:49:29 PM |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2011 : 03:39:16 AM
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Etherfish,
I have loaned out my 80/10/10 copy, I can't look up the particular reference you seek. The book is loaded with references from solid science. Also, you might check out: http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/
You can ask him any question you wish to on that site..I'm sure he could give you plenty to reference if you are up for it. I can tell you that his view on this has been correct in my experience, and for many other people. I had severe adrenal fatigue at one time, which was correlated with blood sugar swings caused by my diet.
Cholesterol is not usually a problem on 80/10/10. Fruit and vegetables, especially dark leafy greens, have plenty of good cholesterol, none of the bad. Many practitioners have done blood tests after a long period of time showing these measurements to be optimal. If it is ever of any concern, hemp seeds and flax seeds have high quality cholesterol, and in good quantity.
In regards to your particular experience, I'm inclined to think it was probably a combination of detox, incorrect application of the diet, and craving. All of these are expected for nearly everyone. It's cause and effect. When changing ones program (or conditioning) you are going to have to face some tough times. It is hard to know exactly the best way to do things when we have not done them before. That is why it is a good idea to trust and have faith in the teachings that inspire you. I think the urge that made you want to try fruitarianism was inspired. The application of it at first will be "clunky". You will make mistakes and feel it all, good and bad, every step of the way. It is your thoughts about the experiences and changing of intention that causes you to go in a different direction. That's fine. Free will, right? AYP is like this. You know deep down that it is true, but while you are learning, it takes a bit of faith on your part to allow yourself to commit completely. Because you just don't really know it until you have experienced it directly. Same thing with food. Incredibly simple, but not necessarily easy. We all know deep down that fruit and vegetables are the best food for us. That's very basic. All the rest is basically conditioning at this point. We have conditioned the palate and mind to enjoy particular foods. In America, there happens to be a large corporate system in place that relies in part on propaganda, cultural norms, and learned behavior. They rely on these structures in order to condition their customers, for the purpose of sustaining profits. Take protein, for example. We have heard throughout our lives that we have to get our protein, and meat is the best way to do that. How often did we challenge this assertion? How deeply did we investigate it? It turns out that there is no medical condition that exists known as "protein deficiency". There are a few conditions that are related, but these are almost always related to insufficient calories, i.e. starving.. As long as you are getting enough food, you will get plenty of protein. The body recycles the amino acids and builds new polypeptide strands "protein" with them. Fruit is a perfectly sufficient source and makes up 5-10% of calories, in most fruit. Hemp seeds have excellent complete protein. Quinoa has excellent complete protein (even more powerful if sprouted). The best known source of protein is Spirulina, which is around 55% protein. These are all also abundant in vitamins, minerals, enzymes, co-enzymes and much more. These protein sources are widely available now. Lots of info about them on the web as well. A steak can't hold a candle to any of these in terms of usable, quality protein. Heat destroys the protein in all cooked foods to a degree in proportion to the temperature to which it was exposed. The heat causes the polypeptide chains to fuse together, rendering the amino acids unusable, and they are discarded (often becoming lodged in the bowels and organs). You can watch this happen if you take a strand of hair (mostly protein) and add a flame to it. See how it fuses together. Put it under a microscope if you want. Regardless, 99% of us in the west don't need more protein. We have excess deranged proteins causing disease. We do often mistake craving for need.
You are correct in pointing out the addiction aspect of eating cooked food and animal foods. There is solid science telling us that these foods are giving us chemicals and hormones that help create and sustain addiction. Also, whatever our diet happens to be, if we have been on it for long, we have acquired taste to it, parts of ourselves enjoy it. At some point you will have to face that conditioning head on. This is true whether quitting drugs, quitting smoking, or changing diet. It takes a lot of courage, will power, trust, and faith. But if the urge is coming from deep within, then just do it. It all depends on the deepest intention. Its like that with everything..This is about much more then physical health, but I'll give a specific example: If ones deepest intention is to be in optimum physical condition, then that will eventually manifest as ones reality. Now, if one holds that intention, but ignores what reality is telling him or her, then the realization of the goal may be delayed. Mercola's system is more effective for people with the intent of getting away from the standard american diet and helps them to break their current conditioning. He has an audience for a reason and has helped people change their diet for the better. He has his place in society. I wouldn't change that if I could.
I have no idea about your particular insulin problem or if your perception of it is correct. I would get your adrenal organs/pancreas checked out by your MD/NMD. You may have to treat an issue like that separately from diet. Or it may just be a lack of balance. Being aware of one thing can make all the difference: Fat consumption is very insidious in that we consume a lot without realizing that we have (at least initially), because it is so physically small. But it is calorically dense. If I eat a handfull of nuts, that is around 600 calories, 25% of my daily calories. Salad dressing/oil is dense fat. Avocado's average around 230 calories. It adds up quickly, so you have to watch it.
You might have been consuming too much fat without knowing it. Most raw fooders do, at least for a while..If you are eating a lot of fruit and a lot of fat, you are going to be hurting for sure and have massive blood sugar issues. If you are going to eat fruit based, you really should commit to it. In 80/10/10, it is essential that you keep track of the calories of everything you eat while you are adapting and learning. Before long it will be easy and natural. I would suggest using Dr. Graham's book the same way that we use AYP. As a trustable, semi-structured plan to use until you know what you are doing, and as a baseline to return to when you run in to problems... Also, its very advantageous to learn about food combining. It makes a huge difference. Kind of like kechari.
Pure fruitarianism is an advanced form of practice, and may never be appropriate for some..It is not 80/10/10. The main difference being that 80/10/10 includes vegetables, small quantities of nuts and seeds, and advocates consuming a lot of leafy greens. I would not advise anyone to jump right in to pure fruitarianism. Most of us need the greens, at least for quite a while. When you were fruitarian, were you consuming anything other than whole food? Any food altered in any way can no longer be considered a whole food...anytime you separate food from its constituent ingredients... If you drank juice, that's not a whole food. You have separated it from its fiber. If you ate dried fruit, you have separated it from its water. In each situation, it will affect your blood sugar and everything else. Maybe it's not that you had too much insulin, but perhaps you were spiking your blood sugar with juice or dried fruit, and then had candida bloom to eat the excess sugar, which is always followed by a crash in blood sugar levels. It develops into a nasty cycle of up and down. When practicing 80/10/10 properly, blood sugar levels should remain stable and optimal, with the normal ebb and flow of digestion and assimilation processes.
Love
P.s., I apologize for all the editing that I do. I'm not changing what I am trying to communicate. Mostly just grammar and punctuation. I was a complete failure at English in school. I'm still working on it. |
Edited by - chas on Jan 25 2011 10:05:31 PM |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2011 : 10:34:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by chas
We all know deep down that fruit and vegetables are the best food for us.
Wow! Big assumption there...I'm an omnivore and feel great.
Diet is individual and depends on culture and environment...try telling an eskimo that he should be a vegetarian... |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2011 : 10:35:51 PM
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Thanks Chas,
Yes I was consuming whole fruits for maybe over a year. The first few days felt great, then it was hell the rest of the time. I should have quit earlier but I thought I was "detoxing". My pancreas doesn't work right. it puts out a lot of insulin for a little sugar, and I don't digest fat well either. It passes through without being digested. But I have finally discovered a good balance in my diet for optimal health, and for me no sugar works best, but I cheat and have a little sometimes. I have become very tuned in to what my body needs. Each lack or excess has a specific effect. So i just keep the basic principles the same, and watch for tiny signs that adjustments need to be made.
I like to read Dr Mercola's emails because he is always on top of the latest studies, doesn't consider anything until several different studies show the same correlation, and is always interviewing the top doctors in the world who are experts in the latest discoveries. Plus he is anti-drugs, and pro- highraw, so that fits my sentiment. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2011 : 10:42:14 PM
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Machart- we cross posted. Yes, that's one of the things Dr Mercola writes about. There are many cultures around the world that have healthier and longer living people than us. So it is common for people to proclaim that those people have found the perfect diet. But one diet can be the opposite of another and both be equally as healthy.
That is because there is no one perfect diet for everyone.
There IS a perfect diet for each individual, and everyone's different.
However, most people do well on a high raw diet, making adjustments for your other needs. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Jan 25 2011 10:45:48 PM |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2011 : 11:06:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by machart
quote:
Originally posted by chas
We all know deep down that fruit and vegetables are the best food for us.
Wow! Big assumption there...I'm an omnivore and feel great.
Diet is individual and depends on culture and environment...try telling an eskimo that he should be a vegetarian...
Ha! I guess I should have said that most people know fruit and vegetables are the most nutritious types of food for humans. There seems to be a consensus on that. My apologies for the wording..Diet is individual by choice, not by design of nature. Look at any species in nature and see how similar the diets are among the same species. Do you see chimpanzees trying to figure out what their diet type is? A tiger contemplating whether or not to eat prey? They just do it, naturally. Why should humans be any different? Aren't we part of nature? .. Human DNA has been traced to originate in the jungles of Africa. Lots of fruit there! We share 96% of our DNA with chimpanzee's. Guess what they eat? Mostly fruit...
"Eskimos", historically, like many other cultures, have had to adapt their diet to suit their environment. I don't think anyone considers that diet to be optimal, but it has allowed for survival. It is just adaptation. Also, nowadays the common diet in those communities is dominated by junk and alcohol . There is junk, animal products, alcohol, and everything else in my environment here, but I don't need any of that to thrive or survive.
But, I get your point. I'm happy for you that you are feeling great. I'm not here to offend omnivores
Etherfish,
I'm glad that you clarified about your pancreas problem and that you found a diet that works for ya! |
Edited by - chas on Jan 26 2011 4:48:39 PM |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2011 : 11:18:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by chas
quote:
Originally posted by machart
quote:
Originally posted by chas
We all know deep down that fruit and vegetables are the best food for us.
Wow! Big assumption there...I'm an omnivore and feel great.
Diet is individual and depends on culture and environment...try telling an eskimo that he should be a vegetarian...
..Diet is individual by choice, not by design of nature.
I guess this is where we disagree on what nature designs...currently less than 3% of people are vegetarian...from my viewpoint this is what nature designed....what is the nature that you are talking about?
My daughter is a vegetarian and I support her choices...don't make the assumption and claims that vegetarianism is the best diet for most people...nature disagrees. IMHO.
One of my personal beliefs is that things are perfect as they are...when a majority of the people switch to being vegetarians...it will still be perfect.
I think your title to this thread is perfect..."one perspective on diet" |
Edited by - machart on Jan 25 2011 11:47:12 PM |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2011 : 11:33:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by machart
I guess this is where we disagree on what nature designs...currently less than 3% of people are vegetarian...from my viewpoint this is what nature designed....what is the nature that you are talking about?
My daughter is a vegetarian and I support her choices...don't make the assumption and claims that vegetarianism is the best diet for most people...nature disagrees. IMHO.
We have very complex thought abilities in comparison to other animals. These abilities sometimes lead us to unnatural behavior and delusional thinking. This is easy enough to see, I think. Adaptation of diet has served an important purpose in the past, allowing us to migrate to and survive in (almost) all climates (hunter/gatherer), and feed more people than nature and technology could provide for in those environments (large scale farming & industrialization) But today, we have access to fruit and vegetables year round. It is only a choice. We can perpetuate old habits, or choose to progress... |
Edited by - chas on Jan 27 2011 01:48:26 AM |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2011 : 11:57:13 PM
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When I was 13, I was out riding four wheelers with my friend, and we decided we would try to catch an animal and kill it without weapons, tear into it without knives, and consume the whole thing raw, right then and there just like real predators do (we come from a long line of proud hunters). We left our four wheelers and started hiking through the bushes. After a while, we found a deer, about 20 yards away. We ran as fast as we could, but of course we could not catch it. We then saw a rabbit and started chasing it. It was too fast, but my buddy nailed it with a rock and injured it. We ran over and I threw a large rock and successfully stunned the animal. He then was able to catch it (barely). He broke its neck and tried to take a bite into it.. To tough.. He gripped the ear in his teeth and jerked as hard as he could..only a little hair came off. He realized that he was ill equipped to mimic a predator, and took out his knife, cut it open, and started drinking the blood. Then he puked. Then I puked. We left the animal, feeling a little less manly.
Luckily for us, we can now just drive down to mickey dees! Perfect! |
Edited by - chas on Jan 26 2011 12:51:58 AM |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 12:03:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by chas
quote:
Originally posted by machart
I guess this is where we disagree on what nature designs...currently less than 3% of people are vegetarian...from my viewpoint this is what nature designed....what is the nature that you are talking about?
My daughter is a vegetarian and I support her choices...don't make the assumption and claims that vegetarianism is the best diet for most people...nature disagrees. IMHO.
Adaptation of diet has served an important purpose in the past, allowing us to migrate to and survive in (almost) all climates, and feed more people then nature and technology could provide for in those environments. But today, we have access to fruit and vegetables year round. It is only a choice. We can perpetuate old habits, or progress...
I'm really not sure what your opinion on progress is...but I am really looking forward to the time when we can pick up a rock...eat it...and survive for a googolplex of years.
Until then give me a steak smothered in sauteed mushrooms with a side order of asparagus...and a nice bottle of red wine to share with my wife, kids and friends...WOW! I think I just found Heaven... |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 12:09:04 AM
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| But machart, you are only enjoying a small part of the meat eating experience! I suggest, just for the sake of fully experiencing "nature", to hunt down an animal and eat it right there, bones, blood, and all. If you can do and experience THAT with a smile on your face, then i would agree that it is natural, for you. |
Edited by - chas on Jan 26 2011 12:21:53 AM |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 12:27:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by chas
When I was 13, I was out riding four wheelers with my friend, and we decided we would try to catch an animal and kill it without weapons, tear into it without knives, and consume the whole thing raw, right then and there just like real predators do (we come from a long line of proud hunters). We left our four wheelers and started hiking through the bushes. After a while, we found a deer, about 20 yards away. We ran as fast as we could, but of course we could not catch it. We then saw a rabbit and started chasing it. It was too fast, but my buddy nailed it with a rock and injured it. We ran over and I threw a large rock and successfully stunned the animal. He then was able to catch it (barely). He broke its neck and tried to take a bite into it.. To tough.. He gripped the ear in his teeth and jerked as hard as he could..only a little hair came off. He realized that he was ill equipped to mimic a predator, and took out his knife, cut it open, and started drinking the blood. Then he puked. Then I puked. We left the animal, feeling a little less manly.
Luckily for us, we can now just drive down to mickey dees! Perfect!
Sounds like a bad experience...sorry for that. I use to fish but did not like killing the fish...so now just hike around the lakes. But it doesn't bother me when my wife brings home some delicious fish to cook up on the grill.. |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 12:29:20 AM
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| I'm truly happy that you are happy. I've eaten my fair share of meat too...i'm not judging, for who would there be to judge besides myself? And why would I want to do that? |
Edited by - chas on Jan 26 2011 12:52:11 AM |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 12:35:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by chas
I'm truly happy that you are happy. I've eaten my fair share of meat too...i'm not judging, for who would there be to judge besides myself? And why would I want to do that?
Thanks Chas!
I enjoy your contributions to the forum! |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 12:45:44 AM
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| Likewise, machart. Love to you.. |
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 01:32:13 AM
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Hi all,
I've also tried a fruitarian/vegetarian diet for a few months, and I got headaches like Etherfish after a while. Didn't work out for me in the long run.
That was a few years ago, and now I eat more fruit and vegetables, but I round out my diet to get enough meats, sugars, fats, and proteins to feel fully nutrified. While our ancestors once did eat a very high raw fruit diet, humans have also been eating cooked food for thousands of generations already. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 08:31:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by chas
But machart, you are only enjoying a small part of the meat eating experience! I suggest, just for the sake of fully experiencing "nature", to hunt down an animal and eat it right there, bones, blood, and all. If you can do and experience THAT with a smile on your face, then i would agree that it is natural, for you.
Yes it is against my nature to kill things, but I enjoy eating meat. but we must respect animals more that we kill. So I am trying to buy more free-range, grass fed etc. Tastes better, costs more, but I feel better about it. |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 10:48:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JDH
Hi all,
I've also tried a fruitarian/vegetarian diet for a few months, and I got headaches like Etherfish after a while. Didn't work out for me in the long run.
That was a few years ago, and now I eat more fruit and vegetables, but I round out my diet to get enough meats, sugars, fats, and proteins to feel fully nutrified. While our ancestors once did eat a very high raw fruit diet, humans have also been eating cooked food for thousands of generations already.
I got headaches after quitting smoking. Does that mean that smoking was good for me? Headaches and other physical pain is common/normal/expected when discontinuing habitual use of refined foods, dairy, meat, cigarettes, coffee, coca-cola, alcohol, cocaine, heroin,... It goes on and on... we don't need this stuff. We want it. Crave it. A function of craving is making one believe that it is a need. "I need a smoke"... Really?
Just because we have been doing something for thousands of years doesn't mean that we have evolved to make it optimal. Our biology is still the same. We have an aversion to killing for a reason. When you eat meat, you are in fact causing the killing, you are just delegating it to someone else. Most likely, an overworked, underpaid immigrant who doesn't enjoy killing either. If one wants to stop killing animals, there are gentle ways of dealing with the cravings, like Boca burgers. They might not taste as good, but they do a good job of satisfying craving...
“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian.”- Paul McCartney
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Edited by - chas on Jan 26 2011 2:32:37 PM |
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one perspective on diet
