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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 20 2010 : 11:48:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
quote:
Siddhis being a distraction is mentioned in AYP lessons. Did we forget where we are? Oh sorry, you were probably distracted.
The "other systems and alternate approaches" section?
 Ha ha yes, but this is aypsite.org, and alternate systems is sort of an addendum for people with knowledge of AYP practices, it's not a replacement of AYP. I understand that's not posted. They give you a lot of rope.
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Holy
796 Posts |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2010 : 1:28:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
I think that noone denies that Panjali essentially generously borrows from buddhism for the Yoga Sutras. This is something which wikipedia documents. So I look to the original buddhism and see that yes even the Buddha used the psychic power of the divya caksus to become enlightened and actually advocates it as the superior path.
Hi Alwayson,
I'm not sure if that was intended to be funny ... but it almost was.
Whether or not Patanjali borrowed from Buddhism, the Yoga Sutras are a master-work describing the path, from a psychological and spiritual standpoint, between the illusions of limited mind, and the reality of liberation.
To imply that the Buddha awakened primarily due to something involving the Divya Caksus (Divine Eye in Sanskrit; aka Third Eye, aka Ajna Chakra, etc. etc. etc.) does highlight something important, though: it highlights that whoever originally articulated this view greatly misunderstood whoever originally mentioned the Buddha and the Divya Caksus in the same sentence.
What you may be missing, and it's understandable if so, is that some of us here have experienced complete sadhana; we know what works, how it works, and why, and we say what we say from the experience of having completed it ourselves.
And so, what ancient book says what, in terms of how someone did something to awaken, or not, can be confirmed by those of us who have done it ourselves.
That's one of the awesome things about AYP, and about this forum: AYP has been proven to work as a system for liberation in this lifetime, as completely, as powerfully and as quickly as any other spiritual system, anywhere, ever - including Dzogchen.
And so, when you mention the Buddha in connection with psychic powers (divya caksus, etc.) that's all well and good --- but do you understand exactly why and how the divya caksus can be pertinent to awakening?
I do. How did I come to know it?
Very simple: I practiced AYP, starting at the very beginning of the Main Lessons. Yogani clearly articulates how to go about effective pranayama (aka spinal breathing), and also clearly articulates the results we may expect, including, for some of us, seeing (and seeing with) the divya caksus, aka "the star" that you've posted about, before.
That's the surface-level meaning and experience of divya caksus.
The deeper meaning relates to consciousness, and the clarity, the supernal (aka beyond thought-constructs) vision of true discrimination which appears when the obscurations and disturbances of psychic blocks have been dissolved enough for this to happen.
And so, psychic or astral techniques can be a part of early to mid sadhana, but the entire purpose of these techniques is to help the practitioner get past the limitations of over-attachment to form -- including psychic, astral and mental form.
A wide variety of techniques concerning how to do this have existed for millenia, ranging from a combination of pranayama, visualization and form-based (often deity-centric) meditations, to extensive and highly-detailed procedures, such as the Abramelin Operation.
They all have the same general approach with the same general goal: utilizing the forms and energies of the body-mind to transcend the conditioned limitations of over-attachment to the body-mind.
That's why practices are necessary.
Non-liberated people literally have non-liberated body-minds.
Neuro-chemistry and overall neuro-biology must be evolved via practices (including inquiry) in order for ongoing liberation to be experienced via a given body-mind. That's why no one who is liberated awakened in an instant and stayed awakened -- there's always a significant process of some type, both prior to, and after any so-called "enlightenment experience".
Enlightenment or Liberation is not an experience - it is living unbound from delusion on any level.
Most delusion isn't based in what's held in surface consciousness at the moment - it's based in the incorrect equations of conditioned memory, which create the illusion-based life of unenlightenment and suffering, by providing the error-based filter with which the unenlightened person experiences life.
And so, could the divya caksus have been involved in the Buddha's sadhana?
Sure. It was involved in mine, too. It's ultimately involved in everyone's (not necessarily as "the star" or as third-eye visions with whatever content -- but rather, as the clarity of consciousness which results from the purification that happens as we practice).
I hope that helps clear everything up for you.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Dec 21 2010 5:27:44 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2010 : 06:46:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
...during this process mentally affirm 'my brow chakra strobes' and 'I am the great eye'
You can also heal people (or the opposite) using the technique in Energy Work by Robert Bruce.
Hi All,
As I was reflecting on the third eye in relation to "energy work" I found it helpful to read Yogani's lesson on "third eye opening" -- Lesson 416 – From Third Eye to Sixth Sense, and Beyond http://www.aypsite.org/416.html
Yogani wrote it fairly recently -- July 2010.
Over the years, I have slowly, but with amazement become convinced that clairvoyance, remote viewing are real aspects of my experience. It has connected me in specific ways to people and places beyond the five senses. For that I am grateful. It has helped in the process of opening my mind and heart.
Each of us needs to examine our intentions as we do our practices. If we are capable of doing distant energy work, we need to do it with love and wisdom.
In his lesson 416 Yogani talks about the growth of spiritual intuition. Tonight I find that teaching deeply resonate. Spiritual intuition is a wonderful gift.
I have participated in healing circles and distant prayers for healing, especially in the late '90s. I stopped doing it when it seemed to me that we were treating symptoms but ignoring the underlying path to wellness. We need both prayers of healing and a path to wellness, but at this time, my energies are more focused on the path to wellness. Our AYP practice is our path to wellness.
Peace,
Be |
Edited by - bewell on Dec 23 2010 06:56:07 AM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2010 : 9:38:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Excellent, Kirtanman. Thanks.
Hi Scott & All,
You're welcome, Scott!
And, just FYI (to all, and for anyone who is interested) - I found the other information I referenced, about yogic practitioners who attain very high levels of siddhis (to the point of creating universes), but who Patanjali and Vyasa (the primary commentator on the Yoga -Sutras; he's also the author of the Mahabharata, which contains the Bhagavad-Gita) refuse to even call yogis, because they remain in bondage, not having attained moksha (liberation).
Per the Yoga Sutras (I.15, I.17 & I.19, specifically) there are two groups of such unfortunate siddhas, one group called Videhas, and the other group called Prakritilayas - members of this latter group having the higher level of attainment, being no longer identified with gross or subtle senses or form, including mind, ego or intellect, and being solely identified with pure unmanifest prakriti {nature - energy, matter}, and thereby being able to create anything they desire, per that identification.
Yogani mentions Prakritilayas, in Lesson 248.
In his commentary on Sutra I.19 , Swami Jnaneshvara writes:
"The videhas are the disembodied ones who have attained higher levels, and the prakritilayas are those who have had their consciousness experience, and merge into prakriti, which is the subtlest material essence of the universe. While this may be a somewhat advanced state, merging into prakriti is a detour, so to speak. Pure consciousness is not experienced, but only the unmanifest prakriti. Merging into prakriti is not the goal of Yoga."
The book where I originally found the detailed information on Videhas and Prakritilayas, as referenced by both Patanjali and Vyasa, is Yoga-Sutras Of Patanjali with the Exposition of Vyasa, Volume I, Samadhi-pada by Pandit Usharbudh Arya, D.Litt.
The Commentary on I.15 in that book states, on p. 208:
"As ordinary beings in bondage identify with the body, and videhas identify with the mind, ahamkara and mahat (buddhi), so the prakriti-layas identify solely with pure prakriti. They may create whatever universes they wish out of the domain of their mastery, and thus be the ishvaras (lords or gods) of a given universe. But this is not yet kaivalya. Through this misidentification they may again enter cycles of samsara, even though the cycle is at the scale of a universe and their incarnations expand the cycles of creation and dissolution. A truly liberated being is beyond any interest even of this ambitious scale."
I really like the fact that Patanjali and Vyasa saw fit to point out this specific detail -- because it highlights a very fundamental and important point, as far as liberation is concerned:
No attainment that is primarily form-oriented, no matter how extensive, subtle or grand, is directly connected with liberation.
That's the key to understanding why siddhis are cited as obstacles in all the major yogic scriptures. If siddhis appear spontaneously, that's fine - if they are sought, or focused on, this is just more of the same artificial attachment to, and over-focus on form with which unenlightenment is created in the first place.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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wakeupneo
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2010 : 11:07:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
Normally the siddhis are viewed as a distraction on the path and are not actively looked for or acted on.
I have heard this before. I think its a modern myth. Where did this idea start?
Answering these two questions might give you some insight as to why they are a trap
Who is it that wants siddhis? ---
Do these siddhis solidify and strengthen the conceptual self? ---
Why further burden "yourself" ?
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The Highest Psychic Power and How to Access It
