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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 16 2010 : 09:33:44 AM
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Hi Scorpio 
A couple of things I'd like to say here.
1. I'm not encouraging you to do drugs/hallucinogens....but people do what people do, so if you decide that you really want to do mushrooms, they are very easy to grow yourself and are not illegal to grow. They are illegal to DRY, but not illegal to grow. You can get "spore kits" all over the internet if you know where to look.
2. Salvia does (IME) have a reverse tolerance effect. Especially after you have "broke through", on any of the "levels" I talked about previously.
3. I was doing Salvia long before I was into yoga or had any knowledge of the chakras, so I can't comment on the aspect of breaking through whilst having a "strong sacral chakra."
4. In my experience, Salvia causes the amplification of the last thought going through the mind before the "breakthrough." THIS is where bad trips come from on Salvia (IME). If you have a "negative" (guilty, angry, scared etc etc) thought directly before "leaving the body" into a breakthrough experience, that thought is going to be amplified exponentially and is going to "flavor" your trip. This, IMO is why salvia is hard to work with for most people. LOTS of inner silence is a prerequisite for using salvia in a spiritually productive way.
Love!
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seekingthelight
Australia
21 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2010 : 9:38:00 PM
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Thanks for your reply Carson.
I'm drawn to psychedelics for 2 reasons: the main one is for growth and healing, and the other reason is I guess curiosity - I want the experience of these weird and wacky states.
As excited as I am at the thought of trying this stuff out, I'm also a bit nervous and cautious, and I'm definitely taking your advice and knowledge on board. So yeah, I think the mushroom approach may be a good one for a first time.
Thanks again man, it's good to have a bit of insight from veterans in the field =) |
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2010 : 12:33:03 PM
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Carson, you gave some great replies. And I'm having trouble finding words for the infinite. So I'll just say, if it is a step on your path, tread lightly - and don't get too attached to it. It's scenery. The trip comes from your own consciousness, not the drug. Your average dream each night while sleeping would match the craziest psychedelic experiences that I've had. And without the hangover. It also reminds me of the self-pacing in the lessons. AYP is a slow and manageable process for dissolving the ego. High-dose psychedelics trip don't dissolve it. They annihilate it in a tidal wave, and when the wave passes, the ego is still there, wondering 'WTF', and cowering and shivering with some PTSD.
That said, there's no easier way to get a peek at what it's like to have the mind shut off (albeit in a state of torpor) while still being awake. I agree with Carson's dose recommendations for shrooms. About 1.0 to 1.3g of dried shrooms per 100 lbs (45kgs) bodyweight. That's enough to give you a wild ride. But not so much that you'd 'go insane' from it. They kind of have an exponential dose rate. So 1.5g might feel like taking ten times more than 1.0g. And likewise for 2.5g versus 1.5g. For me personally, somewhere around 3.0g was where I went off the deepend, and I weigh about 140 lbs. Not recommended. And 2.0g was my favorite dose.
Enjoy! |
Edited by - JDH on Dec 17 2010 12:57:59 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 18 2010 : 02:32:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JDH
AYP is a slow and manageable process for dissolving the ego. High-dose psychedelics trip don't dissolve it. They annihilate it in a tidal wave, and when the wave passes, the ego is still there, wondering 'WTF', and cowering and shivering with some PTSD.
That is just right on point with my psychedelic experiences, which were numerous and of a broad range when I was sampling mushrooms, LSD, peyote, and finally DMT ("the spirit molecule")--which was the most powerful. The turbulence before and after the experience made it difficult to incorporate the incredibly lucid visions that I beheld, but that was well before I had began AYP or any daily spiritual practice.
The benefit I found in mushrooms was the gradual rise to the peak, in a way that circulated sensations in my body--more "organically" I would say--than LSD. Ambient and spiritual music was very helpful for me as well on trips. Now I listen to Native American drumming (with no psychedelics) and do some vision quests to the lower world, part of a collective consciousness that is filled with animals and earth landscapes. I can envision these "power animals" to draw sources of strength in my heart-space. The eagle in particular is prominent for me, and I sometimes feel his wings spread with ecstatic radiance.
I would recommend "The Way of the Shaman" by Michael Harner:
http://www.shamanism.org/products/books.html
For me, it's a great supplement to AYP practice and a fruitful exploration of inner space. Psychedelics can enhance the exploration, but as JDH says...tread lightly. |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Dec 18 2010 02:34:04 AM |
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Scorpio1987uk
Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
57 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2010 : 5:37:12 PM
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I have done some more work with Salvia, here goes:
I was too afraid to try the 15x extract again, so I stuck with plain leaf, this time however I was smoking it in a pipe rather than in a joint and the effects are much more noticable. For some reason it also seems to quiet my mind a lot, my mind feels much more focused and relaxed for around 30 minutes after inhalation
Smoking a few grams of standard dried leaf in a pipe sent my Crown Chakra into overdrive, it actually feels like your head is bigger than it is and your body gets smaller, ussually I do not feel much vibrations in my crown, but after a few tokes I can feel the energy clearly, nearly as powerful as my sacral/heart region. There is also very subtle closed eye visuals and movement to go with it, let me explain, In my minds eye I start to see myself either moving backwards, like I am on a conveyor belt or floating up and down like a boat, I can see "waves" in 3d. Also feels like your body is moving synchronised with these visuals, if I had to compare it with another experience, it would be the point after sleep paralysis sets in and you are about to astral project, if that makes sense to anyone. Also I did this before going to sleep and I noticed increased lucidity in my dreams, I happened to have a sexual dream that night and it was a lot of fun :)
Finally, I hear internal voices coming from my chakras, and after smoking Salvia they get very loud to the point where I can pinpoint where the individual voices are coming from. I feel that smoking Standard Salvia, not the extract, is a perfect tool for putting you into a nice stable meditation, nearly as powerfull as a trance state. |
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2010 : 08:33:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scorpio1987uk
I have done some more work with Salvia, here goes:
I was too afraid to try the 15x extract again, so I stuck with plain leaf, this time however I was smoking it in a pipe rather than in a joint and the effects are much more noticable. For some reason it also seems to quiet my mind a lot, my mind feels much more focused and relaxed for around 30 minutes after inhalation
Smoking a few grams of standard dried leaf in a pipe sent my Crown Chakra into overdrive, it actually feels like your head is bigger than it is and your body gets smaller, ussually I do not feel much vibrations in my crown, but after a few tokes I can feel the energy clearly, nearly as powerful as my sacral/heart region. There is also very subtle closed eye visuals and movement to go with it, let me explain, In my minds eye I start to see myself either moving backwards, like I am on a conveyor belt or floating up and down like a boat, I can see "waves" in 3d. Also feels like your body is moving synchronised with these visuals, if I had to compare it with another experience, it would be the point after sleep paralysis sets in and you are about to astral project, if that makes sense to anyone. Also I did this before going to sleep and I noticed increased lucidity in my dreams, I happened to have a sexual dream that night and it was a lot of fun :)
Finally, I hear internal voices coming from my chakras, and after smoking Salvia they get very loud to the point where I can pinpoint where the individual voices are coming from. I feel that smoking Standard Salvia, not the extract, is a perfect tool for putting you into a nice stable meditation, nearly as powerfull as a trance state.
I have to say I find it rather absurd that after everything you said you can honestly consider Salvia to provide a "stable meditation." I think you are deeply confused about what meditation actually is. I would hardly consider a psychedelic experience to be "stable." Meditation is the process of ceasing mental fluctuation in order to release trauma and go deep into inner silence. Getting lost in an endless barrage of psychedelic sounds and images IS NOT meditation. It is NOT going to provide you with any of the benefits of a regular meditation practice. |
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Scorpio1987uk
Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
57 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2010 : 10:36:27 PM
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By stable meditation, I mean a state where you can perceive yourself more clearly, free from external disctractions, smoking low doses of Salvia puts me in that state. I wouldnt call low doses of salvia a psychedelic experience at all. All it does is increase awareness of my chakras and make my own imagination more lucid so I can work with myself better. I do not think it is possible to achieve a inner silence as the mind is always doing something, if it is not fabricating words, sounds images and subtle movements it is dead and even at death I still think the mind carries on, since the mind is a continiuum.
I wouldnt call my chakra voices "psychedelic sounds" they are an extension of my own nervous system and I believe they are the different cellular groups and organs in my body talking to me, I have even visited their great world in dreams where I have seen the cellular exactly as seeing it through a microscope. (Dr Robert Monroe has validated and standardized this experience in western culture, he was a great man bless his soul.) I am spending a great deal of time trying to decipher their language and analyzing which organs/groups the voices are coming from, each of them seems to serve a different purpose. So far I have figured out my sexual organs, it bears the resemblance of a cat, I hear her purring when I pay attention to her ;)Next I am working on my heart/lungs etc... I will leave the brain for last because I do not feel I have the experience to tamper with it yet. Overall I have managed to decipher their language to the point where I can make a statement, if it is true and it resonates with them they get louder, if it does not and is a lie they quiet down, I call these my Intuition :D Hardly a psychedelic experience in my opinion....
In my own life experience, I have never been able to have inner silence as I hear voices coming from my chakras 100% of the time, trying to quiet my mind just makes those voices rise to the surface.
Famous quote by the Dalai Lama "Sleep is the best meditation."
Low doses of Salvia just put you in that state bordering awake and asleep quickly and efficiently. |
Edited by - Scorpio1987uk on Jan 01 2011 01:46:45 AM |
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CannabisSativa
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2011 : 6:56:02 PM
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I think Salvia is interesting, I've tried it but I can't really understand it. The experience is as if I'm looking at another world, the trance that it puts you in is so weird.
I notice that when I do high doses I always see a woman, or feel a woman, a feminine presence, if I close my eyes it looks like a woman made out of plants trying to talk to me. I've never understood the message of the plant though. |
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2011 : 12:04:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scorpio1987uk
By stable meditation, I mean a state where you can perceive yourself more clearly, free from external disctractions, smoking low doses of Salvia puts me in that state. I wouldnt call low doses of salvia a psychedelic experience at all. All it does is increase awareness of my chakras and make my own imagination more lucid so I can work with myself better. I do not think it is possible to achieve a inner silence as the mind is always doing something, if it is not fabricating words, sounds images and subtle movements it is dead and even at death I still think the mind carries on, since the mind is a continiuum.
I wouldnt call my chakra voices "psychedelic sounds" they are an extension of my own nervous system and I believe they are the different cellular groups and organs in my body talking to me, I have even visited their great world in dreams where I have seen the cellular exactly as seeing it through a microscope. (Dr Robert Monroe has validated and standardized this experience in western culture, he was a great man bless his soul.) I am spending a great deal of time trying to decipher their language and analyzing which organs/groups the voices are coming from, each of them seems to serve a different purpose. So far I have figured out my sexual organs, it bears the resemblance of a cat, I hear her purring when I pay attention to her ;)Next I am working on my heart/lungs etc... I will leave the brain for last because I do not feel I have the experience to tamper with it yet. Overall I have managed to decipher their language to the point where I can make a statement, if it is true and it resonates with them they get louder, if it does not and is a lie they quiet down, I call these my Intuition :D Hardly a psychedelic experience in my opinion....
In my own life experience, I have never been able to have inner silence as I hear voices coming from my chakras 100% of the time, trying to quiet my mind just makes those voices rise to the surface.
Famous quote by the Dalai Lama "Sleep is the best meditation."
Low doses of Salvia just put you in that state bordering awake and asleep quickly and efficiently.
While chakra languages, microscopic cellular worlds and closed eye visuals are very interesting, none of these things are important as far as self-realization is concerned. Within the framework of AYP especially, these things are regarded as scenery. Interesting experiences to be sure. So interesting that any of these things could potentially provide an entire lifetime worth of distraction.
You mention that you don't think it is possible to achieve inner silence. I (as well as many others on this forum) can personally attest to the fact that it is possible. The mind does not have to cease it's activity for inner silence to exist. It already exists as the backdrop from which the fluctuations of the mind occur. Even when my mind is raging there is perceptible silence; It's a paradox.
Whether or not the mind can ever be completely stilled is, I think, more of a philosophical issue than a practical one. Perhaps at the deepest levels of the mind activity never stops. Based on my experience I am inclined to believe that it can, but I try not to get carried away with beliefs. Think about how the earth is constantly in motion, rotating on it's axis while it completes revolutions around the sun. In spite of all this motion there can be the simultaneous existence of stillness. We are moving, but for all practical intents and purposes we are still. Just like how the mind at it's deepest levels may indeed continue to fluctuate, but depending on the acuteness of our perception, we can experience the ever expanding presence of silence. |
Edited by - Clear White Light on Jan 05 2011 12:05:33 AM |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2015 : 09:01:45 AM
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I've heard a few years ago about Salvia but always hesitated to try it then for different reasons, I've ordered some tincture called "sage Goddess Esmerald Essence" early this year then try. One reason I was suggested to try was due to the difficulty to enter meditation wether different mantras or lineages.
The instructions advised clearly the doses to start with, i did follow but really not felt anything except some circular or disorientation. I was advised by shaman to increase the doses, even end up taking much more doses but again except some disorientation, I was never really able to break through.
Make a note that I've never done any drug neither entheogen before in this life time. |
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parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2015 : 12:57:59 PM
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Climbing onto my soapbox and chiming in probably won't add anything useful to the discussion. Perhaps it will assist others, like myself, in obtaining closure, in clarifying one's stance on an intensely controversial subject. In response to a number of recent disappointments, a friend recently reminded me that everything happens for a reason. This old thread was revived for a reason. There could have been enough discipline to skip it, but apparently there is still some attachment/ fascination here with drug experiences.
I have no qualms about raining on anyone's parade. We all know drugs can ruin your life. Both the illegal and the legal kind. Level headedness, not fanaticism is required, and I'm barely beyond the fanatical anti-drug stage. They each have their place ... albeit a much smaller place than they currently occupy in contemporary society. From the perspective of having been intimately bound up with recreational drugs, my advice is to use a large dose of discretion and a relatively microscopic dose of whatever drug being considered.
There was curiosity here about Salvia, not enough to try it, but enough to be interested in reading about it. It sounds pretty scary to me. But I also think that if you crave it, if your decision is to go ahead and have the experience, then the substance should preferably be imbibed in due reverance. If it is a potential cure for insomnia, well then it certainly has its positive uses.
Inner silence is a worthy goal if one is on the spiritual path. And while drugs may be temporarily useful on that path, it is my contention that the user will ultimately pay the price. It is obviously a personal decision, and best to inform oneself of possible liabilities and consequences. So again, my advice would be to consider how the drug of choice will in all likelihood be adding to the toxic burden already upon you. We live on a severely polluted planet. Consider the effects of adding to the inner burden of that pollution. And if you should be so fortunate as to experience kundalini awakening, the drug residues will have to be dissolved and eliminated one way or the other (imo). Which only makes a deeply challenging experience that much more difficult.
As regards inner silence, however, I do feel there is one way in which psychedelic drugs may benefit. They may lead you to tire of the mind rather quickly. To become disenchanted with your mental ramblings to an extreme degree is, imo, valuable. But there are much safer ways of arriving at the gateway of inner peace. Mental exhaustion. The mind goes so fast, wears itself out, and then grinds to a near stop. This is a very useful place to be. And if drugs facilitate that stoppage, or near stoppage of the mind, then their usefulness on the spiritual path must be acknowledged. Still, it may ultimately prove too high a price to pay ... a highly risky option with dubious effectiveness in stilling the mind. There are a wide variety of other better, safer, more effective options. Climbing down from the soapbox now ...
love
parvati |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2015 : 3:20:53 PM
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Feel the need to add my 2 cents.
It goes something like this.
Leave stuff like this alone. It can lead to an early grave. |
Edited by - So-Hi on Dec 08 2015 3:23:21 PM |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2016 : 12:18:52 PM
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Intuitively I always agreed the price to pay for temporarily stopping the mind by an entheogen use is high and maybe one way road with no return. However I've heard also stories of other methods including shaktipat, diksha, mantras, mudras which also made more harm than they were meant to do in some cases.
In my case, I've tried different smooth methods for years but my mind has becoming more and more active which prevents any stable meditation. This is why after a few years of hesitation, I did decide to try Salvia but nothing really happened as I've reported previously.
In a way this is quite scary because most testimony of Salvia mentioned an easy breaking through experience, I leave aside here if this breaking through is safe or not. This really makes me wonder if my actual state of mind rambling to be so intense to even reject these entheogen wether one calls it a drug or a facilitator. |
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Salvia Divinorum and Kundalini?
