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djey308
USA
6 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 6:52:50 PM
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i have been quite keen to find any information on transcendental meditation (TM) lately after hearing david lynch talk(gush) about it. i have no need to get into any other practice, i think yogani has truly come up with an amazing integrated system of yoga, but what gives with TM?
i looked into it and found a website claiming to know that the mantras were dolled out according to age and gender. true or not i don't know. but they do seem to me to be quite secretive. and paying thousands for classes? is it because of the one on one instruction of 'name brand meditation' associated with the famous maharishi? do people practice TM because they feel "if i pay for it, it MUST be good!"? from what i have heard in passing it doesn't seem any different from what goes on here, yet it seems that there are those (george harrison and david lynch immediately come to mind) who say it changed their lives almost instantly (maybe they're just being dramatically enthusiastic?)
anyway, has anyone here practiced TM, and how did it differ? and, do you think it is famous because of the famous people practicing it, or is it that good? |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 8:16:35 PM
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Hi Djey308,
I did TM for a few years, prior to AYP.
Compared to "never meditating before", it was awesome.
It was also awesomely expensive.
Initially, this was okay with me, per the "awesome" part.
However, once I learned that the TM organization charges a lot of money to initiate people into a very standard form of mantra-japa meditation, which has been widely available for free (including all connected mantras) for literally thousands of years, the value didn't seem quite as high to me. To put it mildly.
Let's just look at a brief comparison between AYP & TM:
TM
*Mantra
*Basic Meditation Instruction
*Follow-On Instruction
(All available for Free, via the Web)
PRICE: $1500-$2500 as of a few years ago
AYP
*Mantra
*Basic Meditation Instruction
*Follow-On Instruction & Support (Unlimited)
*Spinal Breathing (Kriya Pranayama)
*Integration of Mantra Meditation, Kriya Pranayama (Spinal Breathing), and other powerful Advanced Yoga Practices.
*Over 500 (and counting) highly-detailed lessons (main lessons & tantra lessons) ranging from the most basic instructions in meditation and yoga, to the deepest and most subtle nuances of enlightenment.
*Highly-detailed and pragmatically structured information on meditation and spinal breathing, self-pacing, asanas, mudras, bandhas, diet, shatkarma, amaroli, samayama, self-inquiry, bhakti, karma yoga and the eight limbs of yoga (yamas, niyamas, asanas, pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana, samadhi).
*An online discussion forum full of tens of thousands of posts (at least ....), covering several years' worth of ongoing questions, answers, reports and information concerning results of AYP in the experience of a highly-diverse group of people from all over the world, and at highly varied levels of spiritual experiences
*The support of, friendship with, and membership in, the coolest, most fun spiritual community / online discussion forum in the known universe  .... which also happens to have the genuine, infinite power of sangha (the aggregate of aligned, shared consciousness which gives true spiritual community its power).
*The ongoing support of, and input from, people who started AYP at "0" and have utilized it to realize all possible benefits that can be realized from a spiritual system, those who are rapidly realizing those benefits, and those who are making significant progress.
*.... and a bunch of other stuff I'm probably not even thinking of, right now.
PRICE: F-R-E-E ......... "For Unlimited Time, Only!!"
And, in direction conjunction with its pricing, AYP has been beyond priceless in my own experience.
Seriously: it's not so much about the form of a given system, as it is about our individual sense of affinity with it, and our readiness for it.
That being said though, it is simply my experience that TM doesn't offer anything that any other mantra-japa meditation system doesn't offer.
AYP, on the other hand, in my experience, has many unique and exceptionally powerful facets, helping it to be at least equal to the most effective spiritual systems found anywhere (there are other systems that work "all the way", too ... but AYP is far more accessible than most of them, and also has ongoing evolution of the system, worked into the system itself - "open source yoga", as Yogani has said in the past).
I hope that's useful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Neesha
215 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 9:48:47 PM
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Kirtanman,
This was very well said. And you are indeed so correct.
thank you for clearing up what tracendental med is....I honestly thought everything about yoga was transcendental.
Money could never pay for the greatest spiritual practices anyway. |
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DansInEveryWay
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 3:16:28 PM
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Yes, thank you for such a thorough answer Kirtanman. [i retired my djey308 moniker for this one; it has more thought behind it :) ]
i never read yogani calling it 'open source yoga,' that is pretty funny and quite brilliant. that very aspect of the lessons and the amazing community here is what drew me in and what i have come to love about being here.
onward in love
dan |
Edited by - DansInEveryWay on Aug 22 2010 3:21:00 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 9:24:31 PM
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Hi Dan & Neesha,
Thanks for the kind words; I'm glad my post was useful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Don
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - Aug 03 2012 : 7:08:32 PM
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tm is unique.
it is not the same as deep meditation.
I practice both. they are different. No need to compare them, or judge them.
They are both excellent. The question is, which one works for you the best.
If we judge different techniques, we are probably not coming from the silence
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boris
Norway
68 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2012 : 7:58:43 PM
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what is the difference?
quote:
Originally posted by Don
tm is unique.
it is not the same as deep meditation.
I practice both. they are different. No need to compare them, or judge them.
They are both excellent. The question is, which one works for you the best.
If we judge different techniques, we are probably not coming from the silence
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2012 : 12:35:01 AM
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I began my TM practice in 1973, for a student's fee of $35. Best 35 bucks I ever spent! I became a teacher of TM in 1976, having studied with Maharishi personally for almost 2 years. The "Deep Meditation" piece of AYP is VERY similar to TM, so much so that I would call them equivalent. I no longer teach TM within their official organization because of the absurd price--I teach independently (as do many of us old-timers since Maharishi's passing) and use a fee schedule very similar to the original 1976 fees we used to charge. The only aspect of TM which I have found superior to learning AYP Deep Meditation involves the the personal instruction. Getting it just right from the start is a subtle and individual interplay between teacher and student, involving the student's mood, the environment, the instructions imparted, the mantra given and the variety of experiences that the student may have as instruction progresses. This goes much better and is learned most correctly with a trained teacher guiding the session. I have been to two 5-day AYP retreats, and it's become obvious to me that, while what Yogani has put here is amazing, wonderful and encyclopedic in scope and intent, not everyone gets it quite right. In fact, one of the AYP course leaders on a retreat had misinterpreted some subtle instructions in meditation technique, and was herself meditating incorrectly, and instructing others in this incorrect manner. So, you never quite know without personal instruction. Don't get me wrong here--I love what Yogani has done, and admire him tremendously. I just feel that there is much to be gained from personal instruction by a trained, qualified teacher.
$1,500 is total BS, however--it's not exactly a rip-off, inasmuch as the technique is 100% effective and affords one all that is necessary for a smooth take off to the inner space journey toward expanded states of consciousness. I've been practicing now for nearly 40 years, and it's been quite an amazing journey for me the entire way! But, when we were made TM teachers by Maharishi, he sent us out into the world to, as he put it, "be lighthouses of Consciousness to everyone everywhere" and to not sacrifice our physical and material well-being to do so. In other words, he did not want us to be paupers teaching meditation--NOR did he want us to get rich. At $100 a shot, we'd teach enough people each month to make ends meet. At $1500 a shot, you'd only have to teach one person, but what good is that? I'd rather (and I'm certain Maharishi's intention mirrored mine)teach 15 people for $100 each every month than teach only one person. That's not being a Lighthouse, that's not spreading the Knowledge, it's keeping it confined to only the wealthy. However, he also told us not to give it away for free (in the U.S., at least), because he said in the West, if something is free, it is assigned no value and therefore is not taken seriously. Make them pay some amount and the people will value it enough to stick with and and get the results from it long-term is what he told us.
I'll gladly answer any further questions anyone may have regarding TM!
Michael |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2012 : 03:40:54 AM
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Interesting piece Mikkiji. As a comparative novice of any Yoga techniques that is good background.
I think there is a need for close instruction for some novice practitioners of AYP, I'm always surprised at how the simplicity of the technique is misunderstood. In the early days I didn't really get it, the forum certainly got me quickly on the right track, but like you, I notice that even some relatively seasoned meditators have either strayed into their own personal version of AYP or have believed they were correctly interpreting Yogani's instructions.
Giving value and accepting payment for instruction is accepted as a normal transaction in any other area of training or service. I don't think it really matters what the price is because value is only what someone is prepared to pay.
It's funny how any form of service quickly acquires a trade body and qualification system to ostensibly protect the buyer, when it's really creating a barrier to entry and holding prices higher through protectionism. As soon as money becomes involved this protectionism invariably happens.
I watched this through the early days of caving. None of us were instructors because we had all learned the hard way when instruction was limited. We caved competently and taught novice cavers for free because we felt we were giving back to the sport and creating new caving stock that would allow us a greater variety of trips. These days I would have to undergo expensive training to teach people and then would be expected to charge for services rendered to recoup my outlay.
I'm not a big believer in the growth of 'training' for payment because it invariably spawns an industry where payment is accepted practice and training the trainers becomes very lucrative. Yet I can also see a need within AYP for some guidance which will always be at the expense of the one offering the service and therefore some compensation is merited. I think perhaps the voluntary retreats are the way forward, but unfortunately, not everyone reads Yoganis instructions the same way. Maybe that's just how it has to be, maybe the misinterpretation is an acceptable metamorphism because it's part of how nature works anyway.
Certainly a very interesting discussion point. |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2012 : 06:53:11 AM
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Thanks everyone and Mikkiji especially for valuable info,
I believe this discussion could be well complemented with some of your experiences and opinions about Vedic Meditation (VM) as taught mainly by Thom Knoles and his students.
I attended one of the standardised VM weekend courses with Tim Mitchell, which is a former student of Knoles. It was a rather high quality course, comprising a simple puja (as initiation into the practice), 4 lectures, a couple of group meditations, plus each of us got a personal mantra (according to age and gender.) The price of that course was 250$.
I remained in contact with the teacher and we've had a few meetings. He assured me repeatedly that I may contact him anytime and that he is ready to assist me with my practice whenever needed.
The meditation technique is identical to DM. The teacher was familiar with Yogani's Deep Meditation book and confirmed it.
I can say that there most probably was some value in hearing the instruction personally from a teacher, and that, especially after reading this thread, I feel that there is also value for me in having the possibility to contact the teacher and have a discussion about practice with him. On the other hand, the 250$ quite a lot of money, here where i live and work.
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kensbikes100
USA
192 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2013 : 12:21:55 PM
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Mimirom, this VM course of instruction sounds very similar to the TM instruction I had as a college freshman in 1971. I think it was $35.
We had introductory lectures and an initiation that started with a puja, and ended with a mantra given and a first meditation. Some short-term group meetings and instructions over the next few weeks surfaced and covered a lot of the same topics AYP users are raising. I learned very quickly that the pace of mantra repetition does not matter, the changing of the word or its vanishing does not matter, and it should not be intentionally synchronized with breath or heartbeat. If it becomes synchronized, let it be that way, but do not make it that way. Similarly, no forceful intention is to be used to regulate the mantra or to return to in after a thought thread has completed. I think this would be an example of ahimsa in yoga.
The TM instruction program also allows a "checking" visit with a teacher, to ask questions, and just to see if you are still doing it with the technique. I assume it was also to see who may wish to attend and pay for advanced training. I know only one person who went to these, and was just told that "siddhis" were involved. If so, that suggests that Maharishi had in mind that TM was a good starting phase for those beginning an inward journey, and that he should make more advanced knowledge available as the need arose. I choose to interpret it like that, simply because it makes sense to my engineer's mind. He may not have had an integrated concept or wished to publish it. I'm glad that Yogani has done so.
I'm now returning to my inward journey after having been focused on my career for a really long time (the elder "forest dweller" of the Vedas?). It's great to find a dynamic place like this to address some of the questions I've had and to show how some of the diversity of yoga techniques might be beneficially connected together. I've even hooked back up with the TM people, who are using a lot of the same explanatory materials I saw over 40 years ago.
Currently I'm attending an Iyengar class one to three times a week, and loving it. It's helped my body, balance, strength, and flexibility, as well as calmness, alertness, energy, and sense of well-being. I'm now working on how to integrate asana, meditation, and cycling (yep, long-distance bicycling) together. Who needs a job, anyway?
Apologies if my statement here moves too far beyond the inwardnesses of life, but I am really glad to have found this group!
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2013 : 1:04:57 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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MichaelWinz
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2018 : 12:09:47 PM
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Michael
Great post. Thanks for the clarification....
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
I began my TM practice in 1973, for a student's fee of $35. Best 35 bucks I ever spent! I became a teacher of TM in 1976, having studied with Maharishi personally for almost 2 years. The "Deep Meditation" piece of AYP is VERY similar to TM, so much so that I would call them equivalent. I no longer teach TM within their official organization because of the absurd price--I teach independently (as do many of us old-timers since Maharishi's passing) and use a fee schedule very similar to the original 1976 fees we used to charge. The only aspect of TM which I have found superior to learning AYP Deep Meditation involves the the personal instruction. Getting it just right from the start is a subtle and individual interplay between teacher and student, involving the student's mood, the environment, the instructions imparted, the mantra given and the variety of experiences that the student may have as instruction progresses. This goes much better and is learned most correctly with a trained teacher guiding the session. I have been to two 5-day AYP retreats, and it's become obvious to me that, while what Yogani has put here is amazing, wonderful and encyclopedic in scope and intent, not everyone gets it quite right. In fact, one of the AYP course leaders on a retreat had misinterpreted some subtle instructions in meditation technique, and was herself meditating incorrectly, and instructing others in this incorrect manner. So, you never quite know without personal instruction. Don't get me wrong here--I love what Yogani has done, and admire him tremendously. I just feel that there is much to be gained from personal instruction by a trained, qualified teacher.
$1,500 is total BS, however--it's not exactly a rip-off, inasmuch as the technique is 100% effective and affords one all that is necessary for a smooth take off to the inner space journey toward expanded states of consciousness. I've been practicing now for nearly 40 years, and it's been quite an amazing journey for me the entire way! But, when we were made TM teachers by Maharishi, he sent us out into the world to, as he put it, "be lighthouses of Consciousness to everyone everywhere" and to not sacrifice our physical and material well-being to do so. In other words, he did not want us to be paupers teaching meditation--NOR did he want us to get rich. At $100 a shot, we'd teach enough people each month to make ends meet. At $1500 a shot, you'd only have to teach one person, but what good is that? I'd rather (and I'm certain Maharishi's intention mirrored mine)teach 15 people for $100 each every month than teach only one person. That's not being a Lighthouse, that's not spreading the Knowledge, it's keeping it confined to only the wealthy. However, he also told us not to give it away for free (in the U.S., at least), because he said in the West, if something is free, it is assigned no value and therefore is not taken seriously. Make them pay some amount and the people will value it enough to stick with and and get the results from it long-term is what he told us.
I'll gladly answer any further questions anyone may have regarding TM!
Michael
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kensbikes100
USA
192 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2018 : 07:40:57 AM
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Regarding the cost of ™, I too was initiated in the early 1970s for about $35. At that time the regular price was several hundred, if I recall correctly. I knew it was positively affecting my mind and nervous system because after several months I could sight-read new classical guitar music with much more fluency than before starting meditation practice.
I've practiced it off and on, and transitioned to DM several years ago - I thought a restart with a new "initiation" might be better than just sitting down and meditating again. Now I find it challenging to choose to stay on one mantra versus the other.
Somewhere, perhaps here, I read that while he lived Maharishi had the goal to make his teachings survive his lifetime and to take on a life of its own for the coming generations. One factor was to make the cadre of teachers a group of professionals, with adequate compensation to have a life in meditation and other aspects of yoga, to initiate generations of new meditators and new teachers. Cynics might snipe about "total yoga domination" or some such nonsense, but I think he wanted to make his learning help the world take on a better path - like the Jewish concept of healing the world.
It seems to me that some aspects of Maharishi's mission are shared by Yogani. |
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transcendental meditation.. anyone have anything?
