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neerja1
India
22 Posts |
 Posted - May 01 2010 : 10:44:34 AM
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Hi all,
I have been practicing AYP for more than four years and after an almost burnt out experience due to overdoing of the practices self paced about two years back. Have only been carrying out SB and DM since then. Am pretty happy with the results and do not have any inclination of adding anything further to this as of now.
There has been a presence of the inner witness for past few months during most part of the day. My question relates to the fact that since last few weeks I have not able to empathize with people who are down and out, depressed, sick etc. It is almost like I can see the suffering but feel nothing emotionally (even in the case of near and dear one's). Presence of the witness at the cost of empathy/compassion for others ? Something seems amiss...
Can anyone from the forum please throw some light on this..
Ever grateful to you all for all your wonderful insights and amazingly beautiful threads,
Neerja |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2010 : 12:17:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by neerja1
Hi all,
I have been practicing AYP for more than four years and after an almost burnt out experience due to overdoing of the practices self paced about two years back. Have only been carrying out SB and DM since then. Am pretty happy with the results and do not have any inclination of adding anything further to this as of now.
There has been a presence of the inner witness for past few months during most part of the day. My question relates to the fact that since last few weeks I have not able to empathize with people who are down and out, depressed, sick etc. It is almost like I can see the suffering but feel nothing emotionally (even in the case of near and dear one's). Presence of the witness at the cost of empathy/compassion for others ? Something seems amiss...
Can anyone from the forum please throw some light on this..
Ever grateful to you all for all your wonderful insights and amazingly beautiful threads,
Neerja
Hi Neerja,
This is a well-known phase of awakening; it's actually an indication of progress, rather than being a problem.
As you may know, using various terms, many spiritual traditions recommend becoming free from both attachment and aversion, as well as the sense of "I, Me & Mine" as the Bhagavad Gita terms it.
In Sanskrit, this newfound condition is termed Vairagya (dispassion) and is heralded as a new degree of freedom from illusory attachment (thinking we're the partial "me" that our conditioned thoughts and feelings tell us we are).
As first, it may feel like this condition isn't good ... that we're distancing ourselves from our near and dear ones ... but it isn't true.
Maybe thinking of it in these ways will be helpful:
*If you go to the doctor, and describe your ailment, and the doctor becomes very upset, feeling so badly for you .... you might not feel very comfortable or confident with that doctor.
*If two small children are fighting, and their mother or father gets down on the floor and starts yelling and crying with them ... that's probably not the most effective or healthy way to parent, pragmatically-speaking.
However, if the doctor remains calm and serene, and peacefully outlines the reality of your health situation, you'll likely feel confident and assured.
If the mother or father remains calm, and confidently yet peacefully guides the children to stop fighting .... they'll be more likely to stop fighting than if the parent joins them in being upset, or if the parent becomes angry that they are fighting, and tries to control them from a place of anger.
And so, this new dispassion is an indication of spiritual progress, and will help you to actually be more available to those who are near and dear ... as well as in all situations in life .... because you won't have nearly as much energy consumed in thoughts and feelings of attachment to the situations of people close to you, or thoughts and feelings of aversion, either.
The really good news, though, is that this is a temporary phase. Some paths teach of Vairagya (dispassion) or Kaivalya (isolation/independence) as two of the highest states.
However, in my experience, and the experience of others here, as well as the teachings of AYP .... there is a final phase where ecstasy and stillness blend, resolve and balance perfectly .... and prior to that phase, there's usually the feeling of "crossing the desert" (it feels "dry" and "lonely", etc., to the conditioned thoughts that arise to evaluate it) ...... prior to entry into the promised land .... the outpouring of divine love in daily life, which is peaceful, joyous, free and beautiful.
And so, please just "carry on" ... good things are happening, as Yogani says.
The only thing "bad" about this stage, is the negative evaluations or concerns that conditioned thinking comes up with .... you can safely ignore them.
One way that you can tell this is a condition reflecting progress on your path: spiritual awakening is always in the direction of greater peace ... and even though there's the conditioned concern about lack of empathy .... there's undoubtedly greater peace in your experience now, than there was prior to this new dispassion, yes?
And so, I'd suggest just relaxing, and letting the silent witness "do its thing" ... because when we do this, everyone wins.
Those who are depressed, sick, etc. .... are actually helped more by calm presence than they are by someone who gets down in the "mud" with them, and cries with them ..... even though we've all been conditioned otherwise (but think of the doctor described above; calm presence is healing).
In my own life, literally every relationship of mine has improved, and my ability to truly be present, caring and available in healthy ways, as I have opened and relaxed into the freedom of true nature.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2010 : 08:24:08 AM
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Thanks Kman,
I don't have the witness all the time like Neerja, but for a long time I have had the lack of empathy. I have always felt I help people whenever I can; why should I feel bad when I can't help?
I want to add something to that. There is a type of mental condition in some people where they have lack of empathy and feel nothing when they hurt people. I definitely feel bad when I hurt people. I go out of my way to avoid that.
In fact it makes me feel so bad I put too much effort into it. The funny thing is that this is a selfish thing. I don't like the way I feel when I hurt someone. Too much empathy. But if the same thing is not caused by me, I usually don't feel it. Strange huh? |
Edited by - Etherfish on May 02 2010 08:31:40 AM |
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neerja1
India
22 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2010 : 08:40:33 AM
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Dear Kirtanman,
Many thanks for such detailed comment..
It definitely helps to know that the path that one is treading on is right and the process has to be continued.
______________________________________________________________________
As you may know, using various terms, many spiritual traditions recommend becoming free from both attachment and aversion, as well as the sense of "I, Me & Mine" as the Bhagavad Gita terms it.
In Sanskrit, this newfound condition is termed Vairagya (dispassion) and is heralded as a new degree of freedom from illusory attachment (thinking we're the partial "me" that our conditioned thoughts and feelings tell us we are).
______________________________________________________________________
Absolutely right...but the state of witness that one is in should actually make one feel a part of the entire cosmos thereby making us more aware of somebody else's pain and anguish. Secondly, is it only the suffering that one is not able to feel or does it stand for all other emotions too. I have not really noticed but I think I do feel the joy/pleasure that comes in happier times/moments....I get involved completely during other emotions like anger etc too  ...
______________________________________________________________________
The only thing "bad" about this stage, is the negative evaluations or concerns that conditioned thinking comes up with .... you can safely ignore them.
One way that you can tell this is a condition reflecting progress on your path: spiritual awakening is always in the direction of greater peace ... and even though there's the conditioned concern about lack of empathy .... there's undoubtedly greater peace in your experience now, than there was prior to this new dispassion, yes?
______________________________________________________________________
Yes, I agree there is greater peace...much much more understanding..I was a hyper sensitive person with all my emotions running all over most of the time and that stage seems to be a thing of the past. Also, it sure is a relief to know that this is a temporary phase...guilt arises when the dispassion during such events as a family member or friend falling ill is taken as absolute unconcern on one's part. Anyways...with the temporary phase getting over situation may change....
Ever grateful to you and all others,
Neerja
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neerja1
India
22 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2010 : 09:12:57 AM
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Hi Etherfish,
thanks for joining in...I would like to clarify that the witness state is not 24x7 with me ..many a times there are glimpses but yes, with each passing day I seem to be more saddled in it. Also, before this phase of dispassion i would literally feel the pain of others...a case of over running emotions in retrospect...but yes I could never ever think of hurting someone. Not that I do so now.
But a recent incident where a friend accused me of being too insensitive started the ball rolling. I remember vividly sitting with him, hearing him out, trying to make him understand my point of view, not actually succeeding and then thinking in my heart of hearts that "this guy is suffering too much because of the emotional trauma that he is going through" but not feeling an iota of it. Helping him out as per his wishes was out of question for me and so that was that.
Ever grateful to you all
Neerja
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2010 : 11:13:05 AM
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Hi ALL, dear Neerja this might interest you: http://www.aypsite.org/333.html
i've been there myself and the thing changes in time and keeps on changing...
namaste |
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neerja1
India
22 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2010 : 12:52:56 PM
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Dear Ananda,
Many thanks for forwarding this interesting and informative thread..I had missed it in the lessons...
Expecting but not expecting for the temporary phase to be over..
Ever grateful to you all,
Neerja |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2010 : 1:31:29 PM
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Yes there are people who try to make us do things by using guilt.
They try to make us responsible for their feelings.
But if we always do the right thing in the moment, we don't need to search through our memories and wonder if we did the right thing. We know we are on solid ground all the time. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 01:44:13 AM
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| I am in the opposite phase - I used to be kind of a "cold fish" before practicising AYP, dispassionate and logical when faced with an emotional situation. Now it's the opposite. I am all emotions, all passion. My joys are high, my sadness deep, my passions all consuming... and it's not very funny! |
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Can't empathise...something wrong ?
