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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 14 2010 : 8:59:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
http://www.lulu.com/product/file-do...gita/3744368
If you realise that you are dreaming, would you invest your time and energy to fortify the dream?
Or would you try to get yourself out from it?
Hi Manigma,
Thanks for this; this is an unspeakably powerful, free ebook. I originally downloaded it a few months back, after someone posted about Ed Muzika (he recommends the Nisargadatta Gita).
The author of the Nisargadatta Gita recommends yet another *awesome* ebook (published on a web site), called Awareness Watching Awareness, which (as far as I can tell) is basically the Nisargadatta Gita in plain English, and contains links to some very interesting complementary sites.
I hope this is helpful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2010 : 04:49:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
The author of the Nisargadatta Gita recommends yet another *awesome* ebook (published on a web site), called Awareness Watching Awareness, which (as far as I can tell) is basically the Nisargadatta Gita in plain English, and contains links to some very interesting complementary sites.
I hope this is helpful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
Thanks for the link and I'll look into it.
But how can Awareness watch Awareness? I can understand Awareness watching Unawareness but how can it watch itself?
Awareness is just being... here... now. And holding on to this state as long as possible is called meditation. This will eventually permanently erase the conditionings done to your real self. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2010 : 2:48:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
The author of the Nisargadatta Gita recommends yet another *awesome* ebook (published on a web site), called Awareness Watching Awareness, which (as far as I can tell) is basically the Nisargadatta Gita in plain English, and contains links to some very interesting complementary sites.
I hope this is helpful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
Thanks for the link and I'll look into it.
But how can Awareness watch Awareness? I can understand Awareness watching Unawareness but how can it watch itself?
Awareness is just being... here... now. And holding on to this state as long as possible is called meditation. This will eventually permanently erase the conditionings done to your real self.
Hi Manigma,
There are a few answers to your question .... and your conclusion is accurate, in my opinion and experience.
The "few answers" all boil down to:
Ultimately, there is only Awareness. Awareness is Self; all objects appearing in Awareness are (ultimately) Awareness, alone, too.
In Kashmir Shaivism (and certain other non-dual paths, in India), the pure light of awareness is called "prakasha", and is equated to original light. All living beings have prakasha, the pure light of awareness.
What not all beings have is the quality known as vimarsha, reflective awareness .... awareness which can reflect back upon itself, thus being aware of itself (such as human beings do, and as many spiritual paths ... and forums ... .. discuss in various ways, on an ongoing basis).
In Kashmir Shaivism, it's said that Prakasha is Shiva, and Vimarsha is Shakti ... because reflective awareness includes all form (causal, mental, subtle, energetic, physical, etc.).
Or, as Buddhism has is: "Form is emptiness, emptiness, form."
(Prakasha is emptiness, Vimarsha form.)
And so, I guess the super-simple way to state how "awareness watching awareness" is possible, is to say that what is meant, is:
(Original) Awareness watching (Reflected) Awareness.
I hope that helps.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2010 : 05:23:34 AM
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Before saying "Form is emptiness, emptiness is form".... Buddha says:
"Here, O Sariputra!"
Buddha is telling Sariputra.... "Here" (as you very well know means the state where Buddha is) or what Nisargadatta says my state is Turyiatat (beyond Turiya).
Can "(Reflected) Awareness" be called Maya? |
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wakeupneo
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 10:45:33 AM
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A beautiful read indeed...
This is a rare book because it very accurately describes the procees inward. What I mean by that is that it makes a distinction between the "I AM"(consciousness) and the "Absolute"(prior to consciousness). Many spiritual teachers have embodied the "I AM" - Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie, this pretty much sums up the neo-advaita movement... esentially pure consciounsness - having the realization that nothing that can be perceived is you and having been fully stabilzed in that awareness in that consciousness.
However nobody ever seems to talk about prior to consciousness or the absolute state. One of my teachers makes a distinction between the two. In Zen this is what is being refered to as "the bottom dropping out" for many this shift can almost be traumatic. This is where one's consciousness and identity shifts to the perfection of universal stillness. It represents union with the unborn and uncreated self. Energetically it is a movement down, into being...
The .PDF talks about holding on the the state "I AM" constantly and consciously and then one day "the absolute" will be revealed.
Can AYP shift one's identity to 'prior to consciousness'? I know this email may sound like symantics however this is a very important distinction.
john |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2010 : 04:05:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wakeupneo
A beautiful read indeed...
If you liked it then its the perfect time to read http://www.balbro.com/heart/
Its on 'Adhyatama Upanishad'.
You can skip the explanation given by Osho and just read the main Upanishad on top of every chapter. I am sure you can understand it directly.
quote:
Originally posted by wakeupneo
Can AYP shift one's identity to 'prior to consciousness'?
Naturally. |
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wakeupneo
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2010 : 12:33:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by wakeupneo
A beautiful read indeed...
If you liked it then its the perfect time to read http://www.balbro.com/heart/
Its on 'Adhyatama Upanishad'.
You can skip the explanation given by Osho and just read the main Upanishad on top of every chapter. I am sure you can understand it directly.
quote:
Originally posted by wakeupneo
Can AYP shift one's identity to 'prior to consciousness'?
Naturally.
Thank you Manigma,
I'll be sure to check it out. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2010 : 3:26:41 PM
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I felt from the start, that there's a point beyond consciousness, beyond Shiva. Prior to the sense of I AM. I started a topic on it in forum (Beyond the beyond) after falling in love with Nisargadatta. But nobody really understood at that time - we were all into Shiva, Consciousness, the Oneness of it all - not the zero-ness.
Not until several people started to go into the witness state did Yogani begin to write about the pure awareness, or the absolute, beyond consciousness. (I AM at rest, without objects to witness)
I had a guide sitting at my kitchen table once, making a beautiful explanation, using the plates. How consciousness holds Form inside it, and awareness holds consciousness inside it.
Nisargadatta: quote:
The no-being state is the Absolute, that is what you call pure awareness. Beingness is the feeling "I am". That "I am" itself is love to be. I would like to be. I would love to perpetuate myself. That is love. Consciousness itself is love. With consciousness, you would love to be.
In the perfect state, that state does not want to become something other than what it is. Nor does it want to be. Therefore, that beingness is not there, the feeling of "I-am-ness" is not present in the perfect state. Everything is complete.
When your need is fulfilled, there is no more need, no more lack. There is no more movement. Love is also dissolved at that moment.
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Edited by - emc on May 04 2010 3:31:46 PM |
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wakeupneo
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2010 : 10:10:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
I felt from the start, that there's a point beyond consciousness, beyond Shiva. Prior to the sense of I AM. I started a topic on it in forum (Beyond the beyond) after falling in love with Nisargadatta. But nobody really understood at that time - we were all into Shiva, Consciousness, the Oneness of it all - not the zero-ness.
Not until several people started to go into the witness state did Yogani begin to write about the pure awareness, or the absolute, beyond consciousness. (I AM at rest, without objects to witness)
I had a guide sitting at my kitchen table once, making a beautiful explanation, using the plates. How consciousness holds Form inside it, and awareness holds consciousness inside it.
Nisargadatta: quote:
The no-being state is the Absolute, that is what you call pure awareness. Beingness is the feeling "I am". That "I am" itself is love to be. I would like to be. I would love to perpetuate myself. That is love. Consciousness itself is love. With consciousness, you would love to be.
In the perfect state, that state does not want to become something other than what it is. Nor does it want to be. Therefore, that beingness is not there, the feeling of "I-am-ness" is not present in the perfect state. Everything is complete.
When your need is fulfilled, there is no more need, no more lack. There is no more movement. Love is also dissolved at that moment.
It's nice to see that individuals on this forum are making the distinction and are experientially making the shift via AYP.
Many teachers have made the distinction but few people actually understand it. I've gotten into long discussions with so-called neo-advaita teachers who think that consciousness is the end all be all. If this was the case why did Nisargadatta write, "Prior to Consciousness"? I feel Stephen Wolinsky's idea of the absolute is also lacking. I think Anadi's teaching is the most clear and direct that I have come across.
Anadi's defination of the Absolute State -- the final depth in the realization of being; the state of pure rest and unconditional absorption; a state of freedom from energetic fluctuations; the unification of the soul and the absolute on the level of being.
It's the full shift and embodiment from the individual to the universal.
j |
Edited by - wakeupneo on May 04 2010 10:38:02 PM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2010 : 03:38:49 AM
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Question: I have heard that all Buddhas in the past, present and future preached the same dharma and countless beings were saved from suffering. Is this not true?
Answer: You have heard someone speak of dreams, and you yourself are actually dreaming. Whatever you figure with your dualistic mind never makes a true account of mind essence, therefore, I call you a dreamer. Dream is one thing and realization another. Do not mix them together. Wisdom in the dream is not the real wisdom. One who has true wisdom does not hold self-recognition. Buddhas in the past, present and future are in the realm beyond cognition. If you shut off your thinking faculty, blocking off the road of your mind, you will enter a different sphere. Until that time, whatever you think, whatever you say, whatever you do is nothing but foolishness in dreamland.
http://www.balbro.com/lotus/lion5.htm
The truth can not be seen, can not be heard, can not be known.
If one says he has seen it, he has seen it incompletely.
If one says he has heard it, he has heard it incompletely.
If one says he knows it, he does not know it thoroughly.
When he knows it without knowing, he knows it completely. If one does not know this, he is not a true knower. If one thinks that he is gaining, he is not gaining entirely. When he gains nongaining, he owns everything. If one thinks that he is right, his righteousness is not perfect. When he transcends right and wrong, his virtues are accomplished. Such wisdom is the gate-opener to a hundred thousand gates of the higher wisdom. |
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nisargajay
United Kingdom
26 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2010 : 4:49:52 PM
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ive been studying nisargadatta teachings for nearly two years now and allthough i understand most of the concepts the one that has really frustrated me is understanding what this i am is and the fact i didnt understand this made me look into other ways of meditating until now.
thanks to kirtanman posting the awareness wathching awareness link after reading that site i now have a chance to really understand through practice the i am so thanks 
nisargajay
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2010 : 8:11:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nisargajay
ive been studying nisargadatta teachings for nearly two years now and allthough i understand most of the concepts the one that has really frustrated me is understanding what this i am is and the fact i didnt understand this made me look into other ways of meditating until now.
thanks to kirtanman posting the awareness wathching awareness link after reading that site i now have a chance to really understand through practice the i am so thanks
nisargajay
Nisargajay,
Thanks very much; I'm glad to hear it was useful.
I've got to share credit with TI though ... someone posted the awesome dialog between Ed Muzika and Rajiv, and TI recommended it so enthusiastically, thank motivated me to read it. By reading it, thanks to Ed linking to the Nisargadatta Gita, is how I learned of the Nisargadatta Gita.
The author of the Nisargadatta Gita links to Awareness Watching Awareness, so I checked out that link ... and when I saw how clear and straightforward it was, I felt moved to post it here.
That's why it's so helpful for all of us to contribute and recommend information as we do; we never know when and where it might be truly helpful to someone.
And, again, glad to hear it was useful!
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
PS- Without the I Am, all is experienced wholly and fully now; the I Am is an artificial sense of self that's deeply conditioned, and utterly unnecessary. After it is seen through and dissolves, it's not that there's no "I Am-ness" ... it's just not thought (literally) to be our self ... and so, all the distortion that comes from thinking that (the I Am is "myself") is just kind of "not here" any longer. Personality traits and such remain ... but as part of the natural balance that's always here until conditioned thinking conceptually distorts it.
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Edited by - Kirtanman on May 30 2010 8:14:05 PM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2010 : 04:17:17 AM
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The more we make the effort, the more we realize that the process is to be utterly effortless.
Effort = I Am
No Effort = I Amness (here, now)
And when we reach the effortless stage, all we can do is keep flowing. Because at that stage our knowledge, mind and consciousness become entirely useless. Something greater/higher... beyond our comprehension guides our flow.
Like Buddha said, you can use the boat to cross the river, but after that it has no use for you. But one has to make the effort first to row the boat. |
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Nisargadatta Gita
