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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 12:04:07 PM
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How do people come to feel the inner energies? Especially with SBP, it seems to me that tracing the spinal nerve is actually a biofeedback technique or "centre of attention" that enables people to feel the inner "nerves" and hence gain control over the body etc.
Yogani's spinal breathing technique says nothing about centre of attention, just a "gentle favouring" with the ajna and root chakra being the most important stop off points.
In any case, this seems to have little if anything to do with awakening inner energies. If these pranic energies inside the body are seperate from kundalini, why don't ordinary people feel them? Why do they have to be somehow "awakened"?
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Christi
United Kingdom
4431 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 12:48:48 PM
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Hi Gumpi,
The main storehouse of pranic energies in the body is in the pelvis. This is why SBP plays such an important role in awakening inner energies. By purifying the sushumna, the route becomes clear for the energy to awaken, and rise upwards through the body.
By bringing our attention within the body, we become more sensitive to those energies.
Pranic enegy is not seperate from kundalini. Kundalini is the awakening of the storehouse of prana in the pelvis. Before this happens, the flow of prana in the body will be quite weak, basically just enough to keep the physical body alive, and is often not noticed. After awakening it becomes very easy to notice the flows of prana, as they become so powerful.
Christi |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2010 : 04:46:46 AM
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| In myself and several people that I have spoken with the sensation of inner energies intensifies when sexual energy is stored up over time combined with pranayama practices and meditation. I have felt them very clearly for some time even before doing AYP as such. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2010 : 10:13:01 AM
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If by "purifying the shushumna" you mean doing SBP, i fail to see how this is the case, since all you are doing is imagining something going up and down, and this isn't even inside the spine but just a kind of vague sensation of tracing along the back.
Also, you say the main storehouse of prana is in the pelvis. Can you show me a diagram of the human body and the areas where this prana is supposed to be located? Because this theory seems like a completely erroneous understanding of physiology.
Prana may correspond to the physical nervous system but those correlations aren't concrete. If they were, there would be a solid basis for insisting that physical anatomy and pranic anatomy are identical. Other people on this forum have said before that kundalini has nothing to do with semen and that it is in fact a subtle energy entirely on its own. So i am not inclined to take this "pelvis theory" very seriously. I think the explanations given here are inadequate. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2010 : 12:12:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
If by "purifying the shushumna" you mean doing SBP, i fail to see how this is the case, since all you are doing is imagining something going up and down, and this isn't even inside the spine but just a kind of vague sensation of tracing along the back.
Also, you say the main storehouse of prana is in the pelvis. Can you show me a diagram of the human body and the areas where this prana is supposed to be located? Because this theory seems like a completely erroneous understanding of physiology.
Prana may correspond to the physical nervous system but those correlations aren't concrete. If they were, there would be a solid basis for insisting that physical anatomy and pranic anatomy are identical. Other people on this forum have said before that kundalini has nothing to do with semen and that it is in fact a subtle energy entirely on its own. So i am not inclined to take this "pelvis theory" very seriously. I think the explanations given here are inadequate.
 Have you not sussed this all out yet ??
None of it is real and none of it can be proved. In the same way we cannot know how the universe was formed, where life came from, if there is a God and why we are here.
If a thing works for you, then you might as well carry on doing it.
It's like trying to analyse why you like pork better than beef. You can break it down into textures and flavours and bits of the tongue responding in different ways. You can look at the biology of the digestive system, the way the neurons are linked in the brain and the whole quantum element.........but after doing all that you still cannot define the answer. It just is.
All these explanations of SBP etc are to help those that need some comfort around the reason they are doing something. The reality is there doesn't need to be a reason you just do it or don't and that is the only choice. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2010 : 3:19:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
If by "purifying the shushumna" you mean doing SBP, i fail to see how this is the case, since all you are doing is imagining something going up and down, and this isn't even inside the spine but just a kind of vague sensation of tracing along the back.
Also, you say the main storehouse of prana is in the pelvis. Can you show me a diagram of the human body and the areas where this prana is supposed to be located? Because this theory seems like a completely erroneous understanding of physiology.
Prana may correspond to the physical nervous system but those correlations aren't concrete. If they were, there would be a solid basis for insisting that physical anatomy and pranic anatomy are identical. Other people on this forum have said before that kundalini has nothing to do with semen and that it is in fact a subtle energy entirely on its own. So i am not inclined to take this "pelvis theory" very seriously. I think the explanations given here are inadequate.
you win, your right. I just emailed yogani and the site will now be closing in five minutes. So now gumpi, you are the leader, where do we go from here and where is a banging the head on a wall smiley when you need it?
best to you brother
Neil
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Edited by - brother neil on Jan 02 2010 4:43:04 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4431 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2010 : 4:59:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
If by "purifying the shushumna" you mean doing SBP, i fail to see how this is the case, since all you are doing is imagining something going up and down, and this isn't even inside the spine but just a kind of vague sensation of tracing along the back.
Also, you say the main storehouse of prana is in the pelvis. Can you show me a diagram of the human body and the areas where this prana is supposed to be located? Because this theory seems like a completely erroneous understanding of physiology.
Prana may correspond to the physical nervous system but those correlations aren't concrete. If they were, there would be a solid basis for insisting that physical anatomy and pranic anatomy are identical. Other people on this forum have said before that kundalini has nothing to do with semen and that it is in fact a subtle energy entirely on its own. So i am not inclined to take this "pelvis theory" very seriously. I think the explanations given here are inadequate.
Hi Gumpi,
Prana is an energy which has not yet been discovered by modern western scientists. It will happen one day, but at the moment we are working with a more ancient, and vaster knowledge than western science has so far put together.
Prana is a subtle energy, which means that it exists in a closer relationship to consciousness than energies in the purely physical dimension. Prana follows the movement of our consciousness and also the movement of our breath. This is how spinal breathing pranayama works to purify the sushumna nadi.
In SBP we trace the sushumna nadi directly within the spinal cord, not along the back of the body.
quote:
Next, with each rising inhalation of the breath, allow your attention to travel upward inside a tiny thread, or tube, you visualize beginning at your perineum, continuing up through the center of your spine, and up through the stem of your brain to the center of your head. At the center of your head the tiny nerve makes a turn forward to the point between your eyebrows. With one slow, deep inhalation let your attention travel gradually inside the nerve from the perineum all the way to the point between the eyebrows. As you exhale, retrace this path from the point between the eyebrows all the way back down to the perineum. Then, come back up to the point between the eyebrows with the next inhalation, and down to the perineum with the next exhalation, and so on.
http://www.aypsite.org/41.html
There is some correlation between the physical nerves and organs of the body and the subtle energy channels and chakras of the subtle body. But this correlation is really only superficial and only goes so far. There is no corresponding organ in the physical body to the kanda chakra which is the storehouse of prana in the pelvic region.
The best way to learn about these things is to do the spiritual practices. Then you become the scientist, conducting your own experiment within your own body and mind, and you will be able to draw the charts which show how the human body is designed.
The real charts. 
Christi |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2010 : 7:13:15 PM
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You say you trace it through the spinal chord and not the back, but you failed to explain how you are supposed to do that in your imagination only. Because if at the beginning it is just imagination, and in the middle it is something else, i don't understand it and can't make sense of it.
Perhaps you came to spinal breathing, which is actually kriya yoga, with years of other practices that have clouded your perception of the state of non-awakened inner energies in people. You are basically trying to tell me that some kind of inner estatic energy movements are going on and i am so dense i cannot know it. I mean, all of this kind of spurious reasonings, well i don't buy it.
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JDas
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2010 : 10:07:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
If by "purifying the shushumna" you mean doing SBP, i fail to see how this is the case, since all you are doing is imagining something going up and down, and this isn't even inside the spine but just a kind of vague sensation of tracing along the back.
Also, you say the main storehouse of prana is in the pelvis. Can you show me a diagram of the human body and the areas where this prana is supposed to be located? Because this theory seems like a completely erroneous understanding of physiology.
Prana may correspond to the physical nervous system but those correlations aren't concrete. If they were, there would be a solid basis for insisting that physical anatomy and pranic anatomy are identical. Other people on this forum have said before that kundalini has nothing to do with semen and that it is in fact a subtle energy entirely on its own. So i am not inclined to take this "pelvis theory" very seriously. I think the explanations given here are inadequate.
What do you know about physiology?
Anything?
High school maybe?
There's been ALOT of study done on the ephemeral nature of our body.
But you have to look for it.
You have to be interested in it.
Are you?
Or not really? |
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JDas
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2010 : 11:03:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JDas
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
If by "purifying the shushumna" you mean doing SBP, i fail to see how this is the case, since all you are doing is imagining something going up and down, and this isn't even inside the spine but just a kind of vague sensation of tracing along the back.
Also, you say the main storehouse of prana is in the pelvis. Can you show me a diagram of the human body and the areas where this prana is supposed to be located? Because this theory seems like a completely erroneous understanding of physiology.
Prana may correspond to the physical nervous system but those correlations aren't concrete. If they were, there would be a solid basis for insisting that physical anatomy and pranic anatomy are identical. Other people on this forum have said before that kundalini has nothing to do with semen and that it is in fact a subtle energy entirely on its own. So i am not inclined to take this "pelvis theory" very seriously. I think the explanations given here are inadequate.
What do you know about physiology?
Anything?
High school maybe?
There's been ALOT of study done on the ephemeral nature of our body.
But you have to look for it.
You have to be interested in it.
Are you?
Or not really?
It's okay to be skeptical but you gotta be really interested in receiving information to make this work, right? Not sure you're really interested.
Here's a good book.
Give it a whack.
Science isn't the end all and be all, as you know.
http://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Body-E...p/1591796717 |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4431 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2010 : 05:35:16 AM
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Hi Gumpi,
quote:
You say you trace it through the spinal chord and not the back, but you failed to explain how you are supposed to do that in your imagination only. Because if at the beginning it is just imagination, and in the middle it is something else, i don't understand it and can't make sense of it.
Yes, at first you are using your imagination and tracing an invisible line which you may not be able to feel directly. But over time that changes, and you will be able to feel things happening inside your body. It takes time, and patience, but the more sinsere you are, the less time it will take. As perception increases, you are working much less at leading the practice with your imagination, and much more at following the inner ecstatic enegies with your attention. Then it begins to take on a life of its own, and you will be experiencing the results of the practice all the time as you live a life in ecstatic joy.
We are not used to our imagination becoming reality, because normally it is not part of our experience. In our western scientific paradigm there is a line drawn between imagination and reality which is never crossed. Either something is real, or it is imaginary. In fact, the lines are not as clear cut as some have thought, and there is a relationship between what we create with our minds, and what happens in the world. When we practice SBP then we find out for ourselves that this is true.
quote:
Perhaps you came to spinal breathing, which is actually kriya yoga, with years of other practices that have clouded your perception of the state of non-awakened inner energies in people. You are basically trying to tell me that some kind of inner estatic energy movements are going on and i am so dense i cannot know it. I mean, all of this kind of spurious reasonings, well i don't buy it.
There are a lot of things going on in our bodies which we are normally unaware of. Many people would not be able to tell you what their heart rate is if you asked them, because they cannot feel their own heart beating. They would have to use their fingers at their wrist or neck to check their own pulse. So the idea that there are energy movements in the body which many people are not aware of is not so incredulous.
With practice you can increase your sensitivity to the inner energies in your own body (and other's bodies) and enliven those energies to a hightened state of functioning. There is only one way to find out, and to do that you don't need to take my word for it, or anyone else's. 
Christi |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2010 : 06:13:26 AM
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Gumpi,
I really am not sure that you are seeking truth but rather seem to enjoy negating peoples experience and yet in your criticisms you still appear fascinated with the subject.
Be that as it may, I will give another attempt to describe some things that I DO experience. First of all the ancient yogis were not anatomy physicians. They did not cut up dead bodies to gain their understanding. They practiced and explored subjective experiences. So perhaps some of the subjective descriptions are metaphors or simply explanations in the best words that they had for what they were FEELING. That is what I try to do when I reply to any questions in yoga. I have a more than basic understanding of anatomy but to be honest it doesn't help me very much in yoga, yoga is about experience. Certainly it is good to have physical verification that certain practices are working. That is why asanas are so popular in the modern western yoga scene. Postures are verifyable, you can see that you are able to stretch more, or stand on your head longer etc. There is a feeling of accomplishment and you can show it off.
In meditation we have much much less of that. There is no great satisfaction in showing to a friend how well you can sit on your ass for a half hour or how well you can regulate your breathing. They are internal and personal experiences. That being said they are nonetheless considered the MORE important experiences by yogis than the physical demonstrations of skill. I have faith that there is a reason for that and in my subjective experience I feel great value in these practices.
Back to visualisations. One could look at it as learning anything for the first time. First you must imagine it, then make the attempt. Maybe you can only do it a little bit at first.
Lets say lifting a heavy object. it is something possible but difficult. maybe impossible seeming at first. You push,and nothing appears to happen. Well in order to push at all you need to use your mind, you need to imagine pushing. When I lift my hand off of my lap it is because my mind has visualised or imagined it lifting. I don't think much about visualizing it because the hand lifts easily, so when I choose to lift my hand...up it goes! Well, maybe lifting a heavy weight is much more difficult so I have to use more effort of will or of imagination. Maybe it budges just a little bit, I have to try every day. Maybe it doesn't just take effort of will but maybe i need to adjust the angle of pressure, maybe my breathing comes into play, all these things must be attended to and accomodated to accomplish this difficult task. Little by little by imagining lifting it and putting in effort the weight moves. Then I need to focus soem on balancing it so that i don't drop it, I must visualize it balancing as I lift it a little bit... perhaps eventually it become so easy that I don't need to think of it much at all in order to accomplish the task.
Now...is there an actual energy involved in lifting and balancing a heavy weight? I would say yes of course if there is energy involved in any activity of the body.
Now, is there energy moving up and down the spine when we visualize it? perhaps, perhaps not but there is no doubt a sensation of this that can become more and more palpable as one practices. Also a person may get spontaneous movement that have been interpreted as energy moving through resistance until it clears. Well, that is the best language or perhaps metaphor that we have available to describe these sensations and many people indeed do get these sensations, that part has been well verified. Are they an illusion? simply suggestion? Its possible but its also possible that something of value is going on that the folks who taught you how to stand on your head and stretch your legs find to have much more value than the stretching exercises. I for one am willing to accept that this is a value worth pursuing and since I DO get these sensations and I DO get the feeling of making prgress then that is a sense of satisfaction that is good enough for me.
Martial arts is another example of this phenomena. In Kungfu and taichi there is a great emphasis on the chi which is the same as prana. Does this Chi exist? We have no instruments to measure it. We can see the great skill of the fighter who can defeat his opponants, break bricks, and do feats of strength while not being excessively muscularly bulked up. Something is happening here and once again, the masters of kungfu say that the fighting is not the important part, it is the deeper experience of energy and oneness.
If all of this focus on yoga still has you asking these basic simple questions then either yes you are really missing something or you are wasting your own valuable time exploring something that has no value for you. Its not for me to judge but that is the most honest way that I can describe my reaction to your question.
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2010 : 10:23:17 AM
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Gumpi, you say that spinal breathing seems to have little to do with inner energies, but clearly you have not experienced this kind of energy first hand. So, how are you in a position to actually judge? It seems like you are very quick to jump to conclusions in order to invalidate things which are not "reasonable" to you. If you continue to seek truth only through the "reasonable", you will never make any progress along this or any other spiritual path. This is very important to understand.
As for the tracing of awareness along the back rather than the spine, this is also incorrect. As christi said, there are all varieties of experiences going on in our bodies which many people lack the sensitivity of awareness to perceive; The feeling of our hearts beating, the feeling of blood rushing through our veins, even the feeling of our own fingernails stuck to the end of our fingers. If you cannot even feel your spine with your body awareness, then obviously you will have to use your imagination instead. How else can you begin the practice in that case? However, there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to feel inside your spinal column. There are plenty of nerves in there to act as gateways for sensation, it is only our lack of a developed awareness that makes it so we cannot feel it. As you practice, you will increase you ability to feel inside the body, and with that increased sensitivity comes all kinds of inner sensations that we were previously oblivious to.
In other words, if we are not experiencing the flow of energies then yes we are too dense. However, this is of no consequence as it can easily be changed if the desire is there. |
Edited by - Clear White Light on Jan 03 2010 10:45:39 AM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2010 : 4:29:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Clear White Light
Gumpi, you say that spinal breathing seems to have little to do with inner energies, but clearly you have not experienced this kind of energy first hand. So, how are you in a position to actually judge? It seems like you are very quick to jump to conclusions in order to invalidate things which are not "reasonable" to you. If you continue to seek truth only through the "reasonable", you will never make any progress along this or any other spiritual path. This is very important to understand.
hey CWL
being as skeptical as he is may reduce him down to the one truth, that this moment is all there is, and maybe that will free him. I hope he finds what he seeks, as well as everyone else.
brother Neil
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2010 : 6:15:36 PM
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Prana follows your attention. It is not imagination; you are leading it with your intent. But it is not something that is understood scientifically yet.
If you try to lead prana with ego intent it doesn't work as far as I know, so the instructions must be written as Yogani has written them. They work, but can't be analyzed too much. Most people just follow the instructions and get results, and don't analyze. Science will catch up sometime WAY in the future. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2010 : 7:47:01 PM
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| something I have pondered lately, mabye it relates. Why do clouds float??? they are heavier then air, but yet they float above it. I know there is scientific reasoning but to my brain it just don't make sense. |
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NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2010 : 01:00:04 AM
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Karl said quote:
It just is.
Love it. The older I get, the more I love it. There is this beauty and peace in just being and in doing these practices. They bring such grace and joy. And I don't even care how and I don't care about the mechanics or where it is leading. This journey simply is.
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2010 : 3:01:37 PM
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@Grumpi,
I started with feelings of bliss/vibrations/energy flow. They came with a sense of peace. I started wondering what was going on and found this site. I was not originally meditating and looking for something, just trying to be a good husband & father. Later, I started the practices and over time the energy/vibration has grown. The more "inner silence" and peace you have, the easier it is to feel.
Regards, Jeff |
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awakened inner energy
