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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 30 2005 : 10:58:32 AM
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Hi there,
I was wondering if anyone has experienced their regular AYP routine suddenly becoming too much?
Since August, with the exception of taking on bastrika for a few weeks a couple of months back, my routine has been consistant with the same practices and the same length of time for meditation, pranayama and rest.
Recently I read Yogani's new Deep Meditation book which is excellent, and since then and it could be coincidental, but this routine has seemingly all of a sudden become too much and I am now going over into irritability with it. Irritability for me instead of prana-burn suggests overloading the meditation end of things. I mention the book because as with all of Yogani's writings, I seem to experience some acceleration in my practices with them. He mentions this is because your inner-self recognizes certain truths and responds by moving closer to inner silence with this recognition.
I have been applying self-pacing to recover and then thought I could inch my way back to my regular routine only to go over again. I find this very strange that I could do this for many months without a problem only to find my regular routine is now too much. I am currently working on finding a new balance. I feel that perhaps my meditation practice is more focussed on the mantra and coming back to it than before reading Deep Meditation, so maybe I am now meditating more efficiently, I'm not sure?
Has anyone else experienced this or something similar? |
Edited by - Anthem on Dec 30 2005 11:04:18 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2005 : 12:09:27 PM
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Hello Anthem,
I'm glad I checked 'recent posts' because I missed this somehow on my regular sweep of the new posts with pink folders....
Anthem said:
Irritability for me instead of prana-burn suggests overloading the meditation end of things.
The situation is similar with me. I've never gotten prana burn actually....
For me, irritability and, strangely perhaps, what I might call a 'greedy mood' in which I want everything to be 'just so', and get unhappy (and even depressed) if it is not, is, I have discovered after years, a symptom of overdoing it on the meditation side.
This certainly can happen with me even with the regular 20 minutes twice per day. I've always been blessed with 'deep' meditations, and it seems that this can be too much at times. And it can certainly creep up without any change in your practice. I think it is just a reflection of 'going deeper' and its happening too fast without its being 'integrated' in time. It's probably quite rare though for 20 minutes to be too much, or else it would probably be better known.
I had trouble with this for years. I may have actually over-meditated for many years. I never really got any info from the TM people that this happens even within the 20-minute twice per day regime, but they probably simply did not know.... The information may just not have been 'out there', which is why this public-forum self-pacing system is so promising, because it brings up new information.
What works for me is cutting down the meditation time considerably, and bringing the 'coming-out-of-meditation' time up.
Does your breath slow considerably from the meditation? If it does, you might consider letting the coming-out time be long enough so that your breath certainly returns to normal, and even becomes 'eager'.
So, for example, 10 minutes 'in' (meditating) followed by a full five minutes 'out' ( sitting in silence without attending the mantra) might be appropriate if your situation is similar to mine. Watch your breath at the end of that five minutes. If it is normal, that is a good sign. If your breath shows signs of being unusually slow/shallow at getting-up time, that is a sign that you need more coming-out time.
In my more extreme cases I have changed for some time to five minutes in, five minutes out.
If you have any comments or results on this, I'd be happy to hear them because I'd like to know if this is 'just me' or it is a thing in general to watch out for.
Regards,
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 01 2006 7:13:14 PM |
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yogani
USA
5197 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2005 : 12:26:42 PM
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Hi Anthem and David:
Excellent points.
There is also the macro-phenomenon of rising world consciousness, which means more inner silence and spiritual energy coming up with the same practices. World consciousness affects our practice in this way, and we (all spiritual practitioners of all kinds around the world) act on world consciousness. Indeed, the entire globe is in a state of rapid purification these days, as we can see in the news reports.
All the more reason to be skilled in self-pacing.
The guru is in you.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2005 : 3:52:24 PM
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Thanks David and Yogani for your replies,
David in regards to your post:
quote:
Does your breath slow considerably from the meditation? If it does, you might consider letting the coming-out time be long enough so that your breath certainly returns to normal, and even becomes 'eager'.
My breathing right after meditation is something I never considered before. My rate of breathing is pretty slow to begin with around 4-6 breaths per minute when not exercising. During meditation my breath pauses a lot, I have no idea how long as I usually start to breath again if I notice I have stopped.
My formula for self-pacing is pretty similar to yours. I go 50% of normal on length of time on pranayama and meditation. I drop any extra mudras and will do this for as long as I feel I need to self-pace. Usually it is 1 or 2 sessions but recently it has been a couple of days before I felt I could increase back up closer to my normal routine. I have also been increasing my post practice rest time as you suggest up to 10 minutes. The real benefit for me with self-pacing for this recent situation, has been cutting my meditation time first to 10 minutes and now moving slowly back up to 15, but I seem to go "over" if I try to get back up to 20 minutes with my regular pranayama time and usual mudras. I am probaly going to stick with 15 minutes for the next couple of weeks with half the time with mudras to see if this passes before trying my old-routine again.
quote:
I think it is just a reflection of 'going deeper' and its happening too fast without its being 'integrated' in time.
This sounds like what is probably going on in conjuction with the macro-factors that Yogani points out.
thanks
A
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 03:02:44 AM
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Hi all,
Not yet got the books Yoganni. (Want to buy more , including the pranayama one later, at one time so that I can save the expensive oversea shipping)
I am not sure whether I am having too much. I have some emotional swing lately. I feel uneasy all the day, thinking about many things I have to do, and yet unable to take them into action. I used to have it from from time to time even before I meditate, without obvious reasons.
My meditation is less calm and focused than before. May be I am actually focusing on the mantra less than half of the meditation time. Just planning, worrying for the rest of the time. Than I feel rather annoyed about the inefficiency. I know that's not going to help, but my mind just get angry about that. Sometimes I meditate for 3-5 mins longer to compensate for that thinking time. I know it's not advised to do that, but I really feel I am just wasting time if I think something else during meditation. May be not, but my mind really feel guilty. Recently I don't meditate for more than 20 mins, because those added period are also my time to worry and think!
My pranayama also loses the heat it used to generate (upon exhalation), and (thus?) lose its effect of relieving my nasal contriction.
After meditation, I know I have to rest, and I do. But I feel damn bored by that five minutes. Want to get up throughout that long-long 5 minutes. Always want to find something to do, and I try to aware of my thoughts throughout that 5 minutes in order to make it less boring.
Also, there are other symptoms like worries, sorrow about the past, etc. You know what I mean anyway.
Since I may be like that even without meditation. How can I check whether this is due to my sitting practices? How long does it usually take to return to normal after I cut the meditation time?
I did have the experience that everything in my life seems to be brighter, full of hope when I first started the AYP and read Yoganni's writing, or when I hear just a few words of my friends, etc. My health are also much better. That's the magic of our mind. But I don't seem to be able to have that feeling all the time. I think ultimately it is the practices that matters, especially in the long run? |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Dec 31 2005 07:39:08 AM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 5:55:58 PM
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Hey Alvin,
It sounds like you may need to exercise some self-pacing to be on the safe side. When you feel roughness or irritability during meditation, the rest period or soon after this is often a sign you are over-doing things or forcing.
There are natural shifts in the way you feel that are of course affected by the external circumstances in your life. When external life is more chaotic, part of your meditation time may be more occupied with what is going on which is natural. Remember it is important not to analyse what comes up during meditation and to simply return to the mantra when you realize you are off of it. Know that you are making progress no matter what is going on during the meditation process. Meditation will take the edge off even these more tumultuous periods in life and make them fewer and farther between over the period of weeks and months.
It is the total time you spend in meditation that counts. In other words, if you say the mantra once and then spend the next 10 minutes thinking about someone who has been irritating you before remembering to say the mantra again, then you say it again and spend the next 10 minutes unconscious, in Yogani's words "big things are still happening". Things are being released and you are becoming clearer even when it is not noticeable.
Don't worry about heat during pranayama or any other time, this will come and go increase and disapear, it is not indicative of things happening. Things are happening no matter what as long as you practice.
quote:
I think ultimately it is the practices that matters, especially in the long run?
Exactly.
Anthem |
Edited by - Anthem on Dec 31 2005 5:58:44 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 7:10:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alvin Chan
After meditation, I know I have to rest, and I do. But I feel damn bored by that five minutes. Want to get up throughout that long-long 5 minutes. Always want to find something to do, and I try to aware of my thoughts throughout that 5 minutes in order to make it less boring.
Alvin,
Yogani has not prescribed a full 5 minutes rest after the meditation, just 'a few minutes' rest.
The TM people prescribed 2 minutes which is usually enough.
I have found that 2 is not always enough for me -- sometimes my breath is still slow/shallow after two.. That is why I use 5 and only used it as an example (not even a suggestion) in what I said to Anthem.
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 01 2006 7:26:32 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 7:19:41 PM
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quote:
Anthem said:
My formula for self-pacing is pretty similar to yours. I go 50% of normal on length of time on pranayama and meditation. I drop any extra mudras and will do this for as long as I feel I need to self-pace. Usually it is 1 or 2 sessions but recently it has been a couple of days before I felt I could increase back up closer to my normal routine. I have also been increasing my post practice rest time as you suggest up to 10 minutes. The real benefit for me with self-pacing for this recent situation, has been cutting my meditation time first to 10 minutes and now moving slowly back up to 15, but I seem to go "over" if I try to get back up to 20 minutes with my regular pranayama time and usual mudras. I am probaly going to stick with 15 minutes for the next couple of weeks with half the time with mudras to see if this passes before trying my old-routine again.
Anthem,
I think I didn't quite get across what I meant --- I think 20 minutes twice a day can be too much for some people for quite some time. In other words, your best stable rate may be less than this.
I'm not just talking about occasionally adjusting down to 10 minutes. I mean that you may find that your best stable rate (for months) is 10 or 15 minutes twice per day rather than 20.
That may be your best baseline for some time, so aiming always to ramp back upwards from it may not be the best.
I feel very sure that this would have been the best advice for me for some years.
This is probably not necessary (or appropriate) advice for many, but I think there are times when it is right.
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Dec 31 2005 7:23:47 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2006 : 12:33:48 PM
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Thanks for clarifying David.
In regards to Macro-cycles that Yogani mentions in the following quote:
quote:
There is also the macro-phenomenon of rising world consciousness, which means more inner silence and spiritual energy coming up with the same practices. World consciousness affects our practice in this way, and we (all spiritual practitioners of all kinds around the world) act on world consciousness. Indeed, the entire globe is in a state of rapid purification these days, as we can see in the news reports.
I am trying to become more sensitive to these "macro-phenomena". Has anyone experienced a major shift since yesterday? I have a feeling today like a collective "angst" for lack of a better word, has been released. In addition to this very subjective feeling of mine, during practices this morning, the inner light and flow of prana was much stronger and clearer than it has been for some time. A very significant and sudden change from yesterday which I find bizarre as it is usually my experience that change in this regard is more gradual for me.
Of course this can obviously be a function of my own personal prufication process, but I haven't felt like I have been going through any major changes the last while (compared to other times) and wondering if anyone else has had similar observations?
Anthem |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2006 : 4:46:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alvin Chan
After meditation, I know I have to rest, and I do. But I feel damn bored by that five minutes. Want to get up throughout that long-long 5 minutes. Always want to find something to do, and I try to aware of my thoughts throughout that 5 minutes in order to make it less boring.
Alvin,
I don't think that the intention of the "rest" period after meditation is that one has to sit or lie still and do nothing, I see it rather as an "adjustment" back to usual activity. The metabolism and breathing has likely become slower during meditation, so I don't think it hurts to (while eyes still closed), just as examples, maybe rub the eyes a little, take some deep breaths, stretch slightly or shift the position of the legs, to get back to usual activity, and, as David said, it could take from 2-3 minutes to 5 or more, depending on when one feels ready. |
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yogani
USA
5197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2006 : 6:32:24 PM
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Hi Anthem:
It is logical that as we advance we will become more sensitive to perturbations in world consciousness, like a new year shift. 
Our own expanding awareness is the same as the expanding inner being of the world. The more we come into the living reality of that, the more we become the world and the more the world becomes us.
As for what to do about it, nothing different than we are naturally inclined to do. It is only our expanding sense of self occurring. While the world might seem a huge responsibility to take on, from the standpoint of inner silence it is just the same as we have been doing all along. It is business as usual with daily practices and going out and living life according to our natural inclinations.
There are the practices we always favor and there is the ever-changing scenery passing by. We know all about that, yes?
Wishing everyone the best in this exciting new year!
The guru is in you.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2006 : 7:25:06 PM
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Anthem,
I misspoke in a way -- my own breath does not actually get slower when I meditate, but rather it gets much shallower. ( Actually, I think it gets a little slower and much shallower. I've edited my posts above to change "slower" to "slower/shallower".)
One way or another the breath can get much less in magnitude, reflecting reduced metabolism. So that reduced magnitude, rather than slowness, is worth looking at. Often my breath is back up to a good volume after two-and-a-half minutes. Sometimes it takes more than 5 to get normal again.
It's worth looking at this if you have excess-meditation related irritability. Because you can feel good-to-go while the breath is still shallow, indicating you should maybe sit in the 'coming-out' phase a little more.
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 01 2006 7:29:28 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2006 : 9:43:21 PM
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Thanks Yogani and David for your posts,
In regards to world consciousness etc. I don't feel any big responsibilities or worries I just thought it would be interesting to see if anyone else had similar observations, but thanks for clarifying.
In regards to the slowing of the breath, I have noticed on occasion also that it is sometimes like mini or subtle super-shallow shifts in breath directions, other times though I have observed distinct breath pauses or stops. I can hardly explain why, but I just go back to the mantra if I notice this anyway.
Irritability on my end seems to have cleared up thanks to the self-pacing efforts.
Happy New Year!
Anthem
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2006 : 09:24:27 AM
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Hi Yogani,
My self-pacing challenges since prior to the New Year continue, which I find very strange and a little frustrating. My usual routine of approximately 17 minutes of pranayama and mudras followed by 20 minutes of meditation and 10-12 minutes of samyama with finishing mudras has been reduced to 5 minutes of pranayama, 10 minutes of meditation and 3 minutes of samyama. Every time I go from this latter (self-pacing) routine, which is less than 50% of what I was doing, back up to approximately 75% of what I was doing I seem to easily slip over again.
I intend to remain in my self-pacing mode for 1 week straight this time, rather than a couple of days, to see if that sets things back to normal. I was wondering if having a sudden big shift to living far more intensely in the “here and now” (witnessing) would cause excessive purifying and help explain my situation or am I maybe going through some unusual nervous system purifying or some form of saturation with practices? Have you ever experienced anything like this, having to back off for long periods?
There have been some sudden changes recently that maybe suggest some excessive purifying. My throat center has become very active and some big blockages seem to be releasing/ have been released. My outside life is going very well and smoothly though and when self-pacing I have been feeling an inner joy throughout my days that I have never known as consistently. So it is just my practices that are out of kilter at the moment should I be concerned?
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2006 : 10:33:46 AM
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Anthem,
how do you feel about the idea and advice I gave you, that the best stable rate for you (for some time) may be less than 20 minutes?
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 11 2006 10:44:55 AM |
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yogani
USA
5197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2006 : 10:59:32 AM
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quote:
My outside life is going very well and smoothly though and when self-pacing I have been feeling an inner joy throughout my days that I have never known as consistently. So it is just my practices that are out of kilter at the moment should I be concerned?
Hi Anthem:
This is the acid test. No matter what happens in practices, our results in activity are what matter. This is an excellent example of how prudent management (self-pacing) of a rough patch in practices still will yield continuing progress in daily activity.
The bucking bronco in practices will come and go. It is all purification. A cycle of heavy symptoms of purification can go on for some time, though it is rare to last for weeks and months. It will change -- guaranteed.
You are doing a good job navigating it. Do whatever is necessary to keep on the track. I have had some similar periods in the past, and sometimes practices do have to be scaled way back for a while. We just keep testing and doing what the nervous system can tolerate under present circumstances. Have faith. This rough patch will pass and the inner sun will shine ever brighter. 
These are wonderful sharings. The mystery of the process of human spiritual transformation is unraveling a little more each day. My goodness, this is real science!
The guru is in you.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2006 : 12:30:52 AM
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Thank you Yogani and David for your replies.
Yes David, I do agree this is possible and when ramping up out of self-pacing mode, I was aiming for the 75% of usual amounts of practice, so with your thoughts in mind. I am not sure what level will be comfortable, but will have a better idea after my self-imposed week of full self-pacing.
Thank you Yogani for your insight and assurances, I look forward to the inner sun shining ever brighter but having a strong enough base so I don't over-cook! |
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changing routine dynamics
