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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 13 2009 : 10:37:32 AM
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Namaste Friends....
I have a couple questions in regards to Tantric Sex and the holdback method....
1. When do you stop? For me I seem to never want to stop and seem to fairly consistantly push myself over the edge because I can't seem to figure out a good time to stop....it just feels so damn good! So....any suggestions on how to know when is a good time to stop since orgasm is no longer the "end point"?
2. When having "holdback" sex with a partner does it ever occur for any of you that the female seems to act as a "vehicle" for pre-orgasmic pleasure for the male since the male seems to get close to orgasm first? What do you do if the female doesn't ever get to the point of pre-orgasmic pleasure because the male is constantly starting and stopping so often that there is not enough build up for the female?
I have yet to run into the second problem because my wife has only just agreed to start participating in holdback sex, but knowing our personal sexual conditioning I could see this becoming an issue....any thoughts or suggestions?
Love,
Carson |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2009 : 10:18:17 PM
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Hey Carson,
1- haha, good question, not always easy is it? Too long can lead to energy overload, so it is important to keep an eye on that. Also, I have observed that energy overload is dependent on where the energy is, the higher up, the more susceptible to overload earlier in the game from my experience though this all changes over time and practice. Jack Johnston author of the multi-orgasmic male suggests 20 minutes, I think that is a good measure, seems to be near the peak of the good feelings and isn't too long that it leads to overload.
2- I experience this often, I try to have both types of sex so that my partner is satisfied from the experience. So I practice holdback and if there is a lot of starting and stopping on my end during a particular session, I will be sure to make sure she is pleased next time out or at the end of the session. Doing what you can to assist your partner in being satisfied ensures that everyone wins.
Tantra alone is a good way to go to and then you choose your moments with your partner to make sure she is pleased even if it means ejaculating. Yogani states that once a week is fine and I have experienced plenty of development in these areas with an ejaculatory orgasm every week or two.
quote:
I have yet to run into the second problem because my wife has only just agreed to start participating in holdback sex, but knowing our personal sexual conditioning I could see this becoming an issue....any thoughts or suggestions?
There are a lot of things you can do but ultimately it is about what thoughts your attention is dwelling on that matters most. If thoughts are dwelling on orgasm you can be sure this will lead to a lot of stopping and starting as we constantly have to back away. If thoughts dwell on the opposite, the moments when we are not near orgasm, you can perpetuate these valleys as well.
What else can we do?
You can also move energy down into the feet and the earth which helps to diffuse the build-up. This can be done prior to a session with a bit of breathing and tracing of the energy down to the feet and visualization of energy moving down into the earth and spreading out. It can also be done during which helps alleviate the build-up though not as effectively as what thoughts we dwell on mentally.
Hope this helps |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2009 : 11:41:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Namaste Friends....
I have a couple questions in regards to Tantric Sex and the holdback method....
1. When do you stop? For me I seem to never want to stop and seem to fairly consistantly push myself over the edge because I can't seem to figure out a good time to stop....it just feels so damn good! So....any suggestions on how to know when is a good time to stop since orgasm is no longer the "end point"?
There's actually kind of a natural rhythm (pun fully intended) to what becomes a natural range and flow of lovemaking; there's often a point where one or both partners get a bit tired, or whatever .... and the stopping may or may not mean separating bodies; there can be a lot of beauty and power in remaining physically connected, while taking a "break" from overt physical moment.
Lovemaking can then become more like a beautiful dance than a frenetic footrace.
And, there are the larger scale "breaks" which involve disengaging bodies, maybe some holding and napping, maybe some re-stocking groceries .... "like that".
quote:
2. When having "holdback" sex with a partner does it ever occur for any of you that the female seems to act as a "vehicle" for pre-orgasmic pleasure for the male since the male seems to get close to orgasm first? What do you do if the female doesn't ever get to the point of pre-orgasmic pleasure because the male is constantly starting and stopping so often that there is not enough build up for the female?
Well, that's when there can be some augmentation by other ..... means (activities).
Example: disengage from intercourse, give your beloved the massage of her life, involving, if she wishes, orgasm for her ... and then return to some lovemaking (if you both wish).
And, the "vehicle" component can stem from conditioned attitude, a bit, too ... if your lovemaking is more the sharing of your presence and loving and affection together .... and less about being "one-sided" for each partner at a time ... the woman will both seem and feel (based on my experience, anyway) much less like a vehicle ... and much more, well, like an extension of yourself; your loving and sexuality reflected back to you in the form of the connection with, and pleasure of your beloved ... exactly as you will be with, for and to her.
True tantric lovemaking is exactly like "true tantric anything else" .... just even more so.
The only "goal", if it can be stated that way, is to be continuously immersed in presence with your beloved.
Orgasm is no longer the goal at all; the union of presence is the goal.
Much like the shift of identity from a form in duality to the celebration of unity ... lovemaking flips "outside in" .... to be about presence, loving union, and not at all about result .... not even yogic results (the energetic benefits of the holdback method, for instance).
When your lovemaking stops being "about" anything, and becomes a celebration ... that's when any benefits, energetic, relationally, "awareness-ly", etc. .... begin appearing in ways that can seem effectively miraculous.
All tantric practices start and end with the infinite power of presence now.
Tantric lovemaking is one of the most beautiful, powerful and direct ways to celebrate this wonderful reality.
I hope this is helpful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2009 : 01:06:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
When your lovemaking stops being "about" anything, and becomes a celebration ... that's when any benefits, energetic, relationally, "awareness-ly", etc. .... begin appearing in ways that can seem effectively miraculous.
Thank you for these beautiful words..
I agree totally.. it has been my experience and it was the most intense spiritual experience I've ever had.. it had the same quality of the upward rushes of ecstasy experienced during practices, but in a more "multidimensional" way and a deeper feeling of wholeness..
In my experience, both partners should engage in love making ONLY if the energy is high enough and full enough, in BOTH partners, so that they can dance softly and harmoniously together with a feeling of eternally being connected.
No mind is the key, and this cannot be willed..
Also we could compare tantric lovemaking to alternate nostril breathing in the sense that, if you breathe in a dynamic way, forcefully, you won't experience the subtle movements of prana in the body.. you will miss.. the same happens here..
The more present you are, the more quiet the heart, the more subtle the movements, the most intense the connection will be, and the bodies will simply disappear, there will be oneness beyond the body.. like a limitless pool of nourrishing energy.
It all depends on the level of energy of both partners and their connectivity at that moment.. and this implies the total absence of the mind.
To me, the female is the key. She has to be prepared and awakened enough for she is the initiator and, at the same time, the total surrender.. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2009 : 3:11:22 PM
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carson, there is more then one way to stimulate her while your "stopping" also, in the book the multi orgasmic male it details difffeerent ways to move that are stimulating for her and not as stimulating for you
how was the trip?
later brother
neil
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2009 : 3:51:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
carson, there is more then one way to stimulate her while your "stopping" also, in the book the multi orgasmic male it details difffeerent ways to move that are stimulating for her and not as stimulating for you how was the trip?
I agree there are several ways. Also, you can start slow, so the gradation is there already before you're too aroused: whole-body ayurvedic massage plus yoni massage (an hour) to hot kisses to static penetration to sloooow movements with holdbacks. There is a plateau in the male arousal curve after some 50 minutes' intercourse, after that it becomes easier again to stay preorgasmic. Also, if you go for several hrs with no releasing org, it's worthwhile to accept the fact of life that the degree of her/your arousal will fluctuate.
The female arousal curve is usually less steep but more persistent. So if you allow for example 5 minutes for toilet and a glass water (shared of course - yummie, delicious ! :-) then you'll be almost back where you started whereas she will still be more than half the way to her peak.
Only the hardest test (pun intended) is next: staying preorgasmic during her orgasms while encouraging her to continue. It's a pretty shaky balance act:-) but I find it the most rewarding and divine kind of meditation activity I've ever been through. It's worth all the learning and all the previous misses along the way. Have some patience, follow your path in your own pace, the reward for both of you is beyond imagination (her words).
Whatever the current proportion of orgasmic and preorgasmic - enjoy her! |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2009 : 5:09:55 PM
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quote:
...the hardest test (pun intended)
HAHAHAHA 
Great and inspiring post HathaTeacher, thanks! |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2009 : 01:37:26 AM
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Thanks everyone for all the great tips!
I am home now, and am putting into practice many of these suggestions.....
The suggestion of going slow....the suggestion that it should be a "celebration"....these have turned out to be pure gold for me in particular. I look forward to seeing how far we can take this.....(so is she)
Again thank you all.
Love,
Carson |
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
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JDas
USA
74 Posts |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2010 : 11:41:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by HathaTeacher
quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
carson, there is more then one way to stimulate her while your "stopping" also, in the book the multi orgasmic male it details difffeerent ways to move that are stimulating for her and not as stimulating for you how was the trip?
I agree there are several ways. Also, you can start slow, so the gradation is there already before you're too aroused: whole-body ayurvedic massage plus yoni massage (an hour) to hot kisses to static penetration to sloooow movements with holdbacks.
The Kama Sutra is quite a useful resource as far as variety goes. Ie. Rotating your hips in a circular motion (vs thrusts) may be pleasurable for her and not as arousing for you. Plus its a pretty good joint releasing exercise so there will be more comfort in your sitting asana afterwards which is like killing two birds with one stick (hey its puns galore in this thread).
Having said that, I did find the sutra lacking with regards to basic concepts, ie. it would say that having multiple orgasms within the span of the same hour is detrimentary while not mentioning the fact that it is preferrable to have none at all. The spasms last what, 30 seconds? And if there is no orgasm, how long does the bliss last, all day? And how overwhelming does it get at times? Although I find that with the blocking technique or strong mula bandha lock, where loss of semen is prevented, one gets the luxury of having to experience both the pleasure of the spasms and the following bliss throughout the day, but perhaps not to the same extent as with purely pre-orgasmic sex.
Too bad women fluctuate so much, otherwise sex could be the only spiritual practice, but I suppose that's another reason why we love them :)
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
1. When do you stop? For me I seem to never want to stop and seem to fairly consistantly push myself over the edge because I can't seem to figure out a good time to stop....it just feels so damn good! So....any suggestions on how to know when is a good time to stop since orgasm is no longer the "end point"?
2. When having "holdback" sex with a partner does it ever occur for any of you that the female seems to act as a "vehicle" for pre-orgasmic pleasure for the male since the male seems to get close to orgasm first? What do you do if the female doesn't ever get to the point of pre-orgasmic pleasure because the male is constantly starting and stopping so often that there is not enough build up for the female?
I think the answer to your first question, ie. "When do you stop?" is found in your second question, ie. when you find yourself "constantly starting and stopping so often".
If you are having difficulty stopping, try doing a mulabandha lock and then take your penis and bend it backwards as if you were trying to stick it up your bum. That should kill the erection and give you time for a toilet/water/grocery shopping break  . Or you could do other things with her while the lingam recharges.
Who would have thought that enlightement would have anything to do with stretching your tongue and your penis, sometimes simultaneously. LoL. |
Edited by - Chiron on Aug 31 2010 12:00:34 PM |
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Two questions about Tantric Sex
