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Originally posted by Christi

Hi Chinna,

I was saying that if the path of negation is being used, then at some point, in the higher stages of the path, negation needs to be dropped. This is simply because divine reality doesn't negate anything, it simply is, known only to itself. So in order to merge with That, we must become like That.

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Dear Christi

We're nearly there, together! I would only amend the above by saying that negation doesn't 'need to be dropped'. That would imply still a dropper and a dropping, a motivated act, an egoic act, however subtle. I would say that, eventually, negation and negator 'are superceded by' divine reality, and then I join you in your second and third sentences above. But we are saying the same thing here, I am sure.

In other words, the jnani's job is just to keep negating. At some point, if s/he he pursues this to its subtlest level, s/he will be spontaneously overtaken by THAT. But s/he has no control over that, and neither the act of 'dropping negating', nor any other act, can achieve it. We are entirely 'in God's hands', and always were.

It is a dance leading to union. Like this series of exchanges!

Thanks Christi.

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But the manifesting is only liberation if oneself is liberated from afflictions and obscurations and the manifesting is for the purpose of liberating others. Now I've said all I want to say.

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Originally posted by Christi

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Originally posted by Kirtanman
And, also as mentioned before:

There are many who have realized enlightenment .... who have never experienced nirvikalpa samadhi, or any other kind of samadhi.

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That may be true in the early stages of enlightenment. Personally, I would doubt that it is true in the higher stages.

Christi

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When I use the term "enlightenment", I'm referring to the cessation of stages.

What I meant to convey is this:

There are many, many ways to come to know true nature ..... the experiencing of just being "all the way in" ....... the utter harmony of living unbound, unconcerned about self, enlightenment or anything else .... artificial self-reference falls away .... because artificial ideas of self fall away.

Not all of these ways t/here involve the dynamics that we would normally define as "samadhi" .... that's all I meant.

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Originally posted by Christi

We're always there, together... we always have been!

Christi

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Originally posted by Christi

Hi TI,

p.s.

Here is a description of entering nirvikalpa samadhi:

"By monitoring the breathing and watching the object of meditation become focused the breath or consciousness and “energy” will as you breath in towards maximum move up through the spine moving into the throat and into the cranium. It is this passage moving fully up the central channel or sushumna that allow Samadhi to take place.
By sitting in Samadhi and focusing on nothing or the object of meditation (one or the other) the mind will relax (mental distractions will slow and stop) and the higher or deeper need for full body relaxation will take you higher into cosmic consciousness (nirvikalpa Samadhi)."

From: http://www.avatarbabaji.com/blog/ta...lpa-samadhi/

And again here:

"The Door of Brahman
The matured state of the soul. It is the wisdom that comes as an aftermath of the kundalini breaking through the door of Brahman into the realization of Parasiva, Absolute Reality. The repeated samadhis of Parasiva ever deepen this flow of divine knowing which establishes the knower in an extraordinary point of reference, totally different from those who have not attained this enlightenment. "

http://www.experiencefestival.com/door_of_brahman

The Door of Brahman is the brahmarundra which is located slightly above the crown chakra. Parasiva is the absolute which is experienced in nirvikalpa samadhi.

Christi

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Hi Christi,
Thanks for your responses.
I guess I was more interested in which method you personally use to enter nirvikalpa samadhi. For example, if you had to give step by step instructions to someone on how to enter nirvikalpa samadhi, what would you tell them?

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Originally posted by manigma

Nirvikalpa Samadhi is a name given to our natural state.

The easiest method to achieve it is to remain just natural.

The description given at avatarbabaji.com mentioned by Christi is not only a method but a process when one returns to its natural state.

But it will no longer remain a method for the one who has achieved Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Once achieved, then it just becomes a remembrance. Then one can just sit and go into Nirvikalpa Samadhi instantly.

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Originally posted by chinna
A zen master was once asked what he wanted most, and he replied 'to be an ordinary guy on the street'.

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Originally posted by manigma

Nirvikalpa Samadhi is a name given to our natural state.

The easiest method to achieve it is to remain just natural.

The description given at avatarbabaji.com mentioned by Christi is not only a method but a process when one returns to its natural state.

But it will no longer remain a method for the one who has achieved Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Once achieved, then it just becomes a remembrance. Then one can just sit and go into Nirvikalpa Samadhi instantly.

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Originally posted by CarsonZi

Ok....I just have to ask.....

Everytime I have experienced what would fit the common definition of "nirvikalpa samadhi" there is no ability to function as a normal human being...."I'm" simply not there. So if nirvikalpa is our "ordinary state", then how is one supposed to function as a human being in nirvikalpa samadhi or is that just not possible and a "functioning" nirvikalpa samadhi would be termed "sahaj samadhi"?

Love,

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Originally posted by adamantclearlight

I mean I would just look into your nirvikalpa samadhi experience check what about that is not your own awareness (without the tensions)?

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Originally posted by manigma

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Originally posted by chinna
A zen master was once asked what he wanted most, and he replied 'to be an ordinary guy on the street'.

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i don't know who the questioner was and why that zen master replied this. but normally an awakened one would never want to be someone else. he is fine with whatever he is... be it a king, a master, a businessman or an ordinary guy. you know that too

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It moves and It moves not. It is far and also It is near. It is within and also It is without all this. It is near to those who have the power to understand It, for It dwells in the heart of every one; but It seems far to those whose mind is covered by the clouds of sensuality and self– delusion. It is within, because It is the innermost Soul of all creatures; and It is without as the essence of the whole external universe, infilling it like the all–pervading ether.

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Question : Is nirvikalpa samadhi absolutely necessary before the attainment of sahaja?

Ramana Maharshi : Abiding permanently in any of these samadhis, either savikalpa or nirvikalpa, is sahaja [the natural state]. What is body-consciousness? It is the insentient body plus consciousness. Both of these must lie in another consciousness which is absolute and unaffected and which remains as it always is, with or without the body-consciousness. What does it then matter whether the body-consciousness is lost or retained, provided one is holding on to that pure consciousness? Total absence of body-consciousness has the advantage of making the samadhi more intense, although it makes no difference to the knowledge of the supreme.

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Originally posted by jeff

but I wonder if it is all of us coming from a different reference/framework.

Is it possible that your perspective (and perceived goal) may be different, if you start with a K-awakening rather than a search for knowledge? How did you all get started on your search?

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