|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
ventilator
15 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 06 2009 : 11:04:37 PM
|
All,
Why does one need to be sexually committed in a relation? Is the term "Sexual commitment" something that human being has invented to save his/her false identity?
Why should a person who likes having sex outside his/her relation needs to stop doing that? Is it just because it hurts the partner? Is it because the society or morality termed it "wrong"? Does it become "wrong" just because it hurts somebody?
Just like with all things that hurt, isnt this too something that the person getting hurt should work on rather than compromising to a psuedo term called sexual commitment?
- Ventilator
|
|
|
Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 2:50:06 PM
|
| Its funny because in traditional yoga the ideal would be seen as sexual abstinance rather than sexual commitment. Sexual commitment would be seen as a compromise for the vast majority who are not ready for abstinance. Doing something that is painful to someone that you love is certainly against the teachings of yoga by that very fact whatever the behavior may be. Certainly for those who are single and not in a committed relationship are free to have different partners but sex is a very powerful drive and energy and much of yoga is about being responsible and choiceful in how one expresses that drive rather than following it like a slave. There is much karma in sex, there are many consequences, distractions, dangers. Pregnancies, possible disease, emotional attachments and simply great pull of ones attention in the direction of ones partner or partners. If one is in a relationship where both partners choose together to have sex outside the relationship it can work but does always bring additional drama into the situation. Cheating and causing pain would not in any way be consistant with yoga. That is my opinion anyway. |
 |
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 3:40:19 PM
|
| The more interesting inquiry is "What is causing my restlessness, my wish to find more distraction? What am I really seeking?" |
|
|
|
Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 5:36:56 PM
|
Yes, I agree completely with emc. You have been married a fairly short time it seems. I am guessing that it has more to do with the dynamics of your relationship than whether it is yogic or not.
This sentence disturbed me:
"Just like with all things that hurt, isnt this too something that the person getting hurt should work on rather than compromising to a psuedo term called sexual commitment?"
Certainly if you are the one feeling the hurt you should work on your own feelings but if you are the one contemplating inflicting the hurt then you should not in any way try to pass off responsibility and blame the victim for your own selfishness. In my opinion when in a marriage one should put the value of the relationship over the value of your own desires as if the relationship was your child that you were caring for and loved very deeply. If ones partner seems unreasonable then it should be dealt with together but above all it would be best to do ones best to ease suffering rather than potentially create it |
|
|
|
Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 5:40:56 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Victor
...
There is much karma in sex, there are many consequences, distractions, dangers. Pregnancies, possible disease, emotional attachments and simply great pull of ones attention in the direction of ones partner or partners.
...
Hi double 'V's and emc :)
I once read that for every lover you take in one lifetime you will have to come back and spend a lifetime married to them. Now is that any way to break out of the wheel of re-birth?
:)
TI |
|
|
|
ventilator
15 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 12:12:43 PM
|
Hello All,
Thanks for the replies.
Looks like I've been misunderstood as "defending cheating" :) My question is more out of academic interest in trying to understand whether "sexual commitment" is real or is it just a fake thing or myth that we bought upon ourselves as a human race.
Who told us that "if you love your partner you should not have extra-marital sex"? Is that true? Who told us that "extra-marital sex is cheating"? Is that true? Who told us that "because it hurts, it becomes cheating"? Is that true? I feel we over centuries as a human race got used to these lies and it internally hurts us when a partner "cheats".
I am not trying to defend cheaters nor trying to say cheating is correct. But rather I feel, cheating or not cheating in a relation shouldnt be labelled as right or wrong. It is as natural as it is. I also get a feeling that there wont be any karmic influences too. I feel it is just a moral or social custom that has got carried through generations than a karmic law.
- Ventilator |
|
|
|
tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 1:37:29 PM
|
It's always up to the people involved in the relationships. There are societal norms. To follow them or not follow them is entirely up to you in the end. You're making decisions and you are going to live through the effects. Are you going to be determined by any of this? Are you identifying with any of this?
Like everything, personal and sexual relationships are simply form. What is there to it? It's always changing, always transforming. The key factor in any relationship is the relationship of this bodymind to the Self of it all, the relationship to your true nature.
If what you're doing hurts your partner, then what will you do? You can be entirely unaffected by the situation in your inner silence. That is all right, because you're not generating more emotional and other baggage for yourself. But it still hurts your partner. At the deepest level, you are your partner. So what now? You're still making decisions that have effects in this world. Where are you going to take it? Your partner may be suffering and that is actually your own suffering. Help your partner and yourself by the means that are appropriate.
At what level of openness do you dare to live? And your partners? We are always growing together, in a network, deeply interconnected. If we are able to heal our wounds and see through the identities we are creating, then perhaps there can be more freedom in sexuality also. But it's nothing to be attached to, it's only as important as we make it seem. And it's merely a reflection of the freedom of living in the realization of who you are, who we are. We can do it together with the people around us. It takes time and truth has to come first.
What principles manifest in your relationships? What principles create and are involved in those situations? Do we base our relationships on total openness, love, truth? Can you love deeply without expectations? Serve without the need to be served in return? I think these are about the only things that matter. Or do they? :) |
|
|
|
christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 2:10:25 PM
|
Any social commitment is about society.
And "society" is Man's creation. It has nothing to do with reality, the reality of the individual, the Being.
Our sexual behaviors, emotions, relationships, desires etc. are nothing but a deep longing to expand, to get a little more of "life", to stretch out a little bit more, to get into touch with which is beyond bodymind. And this happens consciously or unconsciously.
Whenever I "hurt" my partner - or maybe it's more appropriate to say "whenever my partner feels hurt because of my behavior" - nobody is to be blamed.
Of course, if there is an intention to hurt the Other, it's another subject.
But whenever the Other feels hurt, it means that something in my behavior has wounded his/her ego, and nothing else.
It is the ego who suffers from visualizing the beloved with another one, better than 'me'.
There is anger, resentment, revenge, despair, and tons of other negative emotions and thoughts..
Then we call it "cheating"... I've been through this tough cycles myself, and each time I had to face such painful feelings, it was an occasion for me to reflect deeply on the reason why I was feeling cheated, or hurt by the Other..
And each time, after surrendering totally, after complete tiredness, when the ego is reduced to its minimal existence, at that moment, each time I was witnessing a miracle: all the negative feelings, resentment, anger, all was gone! What was left? pure emptiness and silence.. and slowly slowly, compassionate feelings started to glow out of this silent state..
And the feeling that "THAT" is the truth..automatically came with this rising compassion..
But this realization couldn't happen mentally.. it had to pass through the fire of pain, the purifying fire that cut through all the expectations, fantasies, all the movies of the mind, to finally
release the true fragrance of Love..
This silent Love that doesn't care about cheating, about sharing the Beloved with other souls.. In fact, at that moment, one feels overwhelmed with compassion and visualizing the Beloved happy, even with another one, was simply beautiful..
This is the unconditional Love that we all are.
This is the state we are all longing to reach.. beacuse it brings liberation and relief.. because when it happens, all the misery/pain/hell fall off by themselves..
|
Edited by - christiane on Nov 08 2009 2:25:17 PM |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 3:57:50 PM
|
Namaste All
My 2 cents although I have not completely read every post (time is limited)...
Every opportunity is case specific. Each relationship is unique as are the individuals in that relationship. I think before considering an extra marital affair it would be beneficial to ask oneself:
"Is this a 'Life affirming' decision, or is it not."
I think asking yourself this question and being honest with yourself in the answer, will create the space necessary to have clarity.
"Am I engaging in this because I am being ustful?" That wouldn't be Life Affirming.
"Am I engaging in this because there is a deeper connection that has developed into something that is ready to blossom into an intimate relationship?" Potentially Life Affirming potentially not....depending on the marital relationship and the individuals involved in it and many other conditions as well.
Basically I don't think there can be any cut and dried answers to the questions raised when inquiring into the value of monogamy in relationships. Every relationship is unique.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 4:39:58 PM
|
Hi Ventilator and all
quote:
What principles manifest in your relationships? What principles create and are involved in those situations? Do we base our relationships on total openness, love, truth? Can you love deeply without expectations? Serve without the need to be served in return? I think these are about the only things that matter. Or do they? :)
Thank you Tadeas 
Yes...these are the issues that manifested here too over the years. And they continue to manifest. I can certainly say that I did not enter the 21 year long marriage with total openness, love and truth. Neither did I leave the marriage as one with those aspects. I might have thought I did on both occasions........but openness, love and truth.....these mature from being conditioned concepts to being actual aspects of the very reality itself. And it is this transformation that is what we are married for to begin with. No matter what we are married to, this transformation will be slowed down if we forcefully limit the way life naturally expresses itself.
Being faithful in a marriage is not different from being faithful to inner silence. It is the act of faith that matters. The act of faithfulness ripens the heart...because it is something one has to surrender to. Something that is more crucial than ones own desires.
Here.....faithfulness lasted for years and years. But mixed in with that..... were all the ways I was unfaithful to the whole of the relationship. To the One in it. To love itself. Many times a day...year in year out. Many, many times of not serving without expecting something in return.....many, many times of not being open, true and loving as aspects of true reality.
One day.....some years before the divorce....the lack of ability to communicate with him in such a way that he could open and commit to working with the relationship.....the many years of pain and frustration over the lack of ability on my part to accept that we appeared to not meet on a deep level....that pain again and again identified with....one day made something snap inside. I told him about it...but not in a way he resonated with.....so he didn't recognize it as something familiar. Not so strange...since I was blind to its depth myself.
We did meet on a deep level....but we were both unaware of it. And this unawareness is what life sets out to transform. It will do so in any way it sees fit. And though there may seem to be many ways of escaping it...there is none in reality.
I am certainly not able to "solve" any tension point......and one day it was as if the thin thread that had "held us together" broke...never to be put back together. After that....life produced a situation where the faithfulness was challenged on my part. It was one truth set up against another truth......yet both of them was one truth manifested. I was blind to that too....
But through meeting that (which involved facing and working through a lot of fear), through acting on that truth, everything changed here. The inner "snap" turned out to be a blessing....because after that... I was open enough to truly meet my husband at the time.......I was out of the straight jacket of the relationship-identity that I had limited myself into. We were able to have a very honest talk.....and it was clear why we were unhappy in the relationship. It was also clear that our differences were always going to be our differences. For me this was an enormous relief...because I stopped striving ourselves together after that. And in the stopping of that...a transformed love surfaced inside...the gift of loving him even though I knew...and grieved over.... the closedness that prevented him from tasting the same love. I grieved that I was not able to open him. Not seeing that all openings are of God/That/Inner silence. They cannot be limited to...or ruled by...a separate identity. Everything is as it is....and it is all beautiful. At the same time...openness wants to open further.....no wonder it is not to understand.....We stayed married for a while longer...and then one day...it was simply over.
So sometimes one stays married within the marriage. And sometimes one does not. There is no right and wrong here....only natural consequences. Hurt will happen if honesty is present either way. Hurt cannot be avoided. But compassion and openness will soothe the hurt. Withdrawal and hardness increases it.
But to escape the vulnerability of love through acting out sexual desires is not what love is about. And if marriage is built on love....then neither is it what marriage is about. If sex is chosen over love...then sadness, hurt and grief happens. Sex can also be chosen over love within the marriage. This is also a form of unfaithfulness. So the way it is experienced here..I am guilty of all of it. I have inflicted hurt...and I have been hurt. If sex is an extension of an open heart...all is well. If not....then it hurts.
If I had known 8 years before the divorce.... that staying open.....not withdrawing......in spite of all the pain...and all the years of trying....if I had known then that this would have been enough....that the openness itself would have tranformed whatever needed to be transformed...then who knows what would have happened. All is possible in openness. But instead of the vulnerable fact of openness....I often escaped through all kinds of...noble distractions. And none of them led to greater openness. Just as ways of escaping now does not lead to greater awareness. Escape is escape...whether married or not.
Expectations will stop if two people drift apart like we did. But it is a much greater challenge to stop identifying with expectations while still loving openly. While still being here. So life will bring what is needed for this transformation. Much has happened after the divorce. I am still blind. But hopefully the hearing will continue to gradually become clearer.....
It is the love itself that goes through the transformations.....so it is really love I am cheating through escaping.
And love is the very marrow of ourselves.
It is this that is the innermost commitment in sexual commitment...and any other commitment too.
Yet....just like bad habits drop of themselves through greater awareness.....commitment to love matures through greater awareness. So forced commitment (like the social norm of sexual commitment) can serve its functions for a long time....because it will make it more difficult to escape.....but one day it will need to mature into natural commitment.
How life makes that happen is everyones individual process and cannot be made a norm of.
La vita è bella 
|
|
|
|
brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2009 : 8:58:40 PM
|
How I see it
my ideal, is if the other partner wants a monogamous relationship, then I would prefer that I be monogamous. If my partner wants to explore then I would have to look into the situation and see how I feel about it. If you and your partner want to be swingers and are happy with that, ok, great. For me the answer comes down to compassion for myself and others. So if what you do harms another, why not be with someone who is ok with the way you want it?
just a few of my thoughts
brother Neil
|
|
|
|
Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2009 : 11:51:20 AM
|
right speech, right action... karma.
If you say you will have sex with only one, then to do otherwise would be lying. False speech proliferates great negative karma.
Doing something that could harm another, like allowing someone to have sex with you if you are at risk for some disease, for example, is very harmful. Harmful actions proliferate great negative karma.
If you are going to screw around, don't say you won't and don't screw around with your partner if you might be carrying something. Wait until you know you're clean.
You cannot be enlightened until all your negative karma has paid backs its debt. Always be mindful of karma. Always be mindful of karma. Always be mindful of karma. Always be mindful of karma. |
|
|
|
christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2009 : 5:16:48 PM
|
Always be mindful of karma but don't be obsessed with it!
No good no bad.
The river is rivering..either we swim in the opposite way and struggle, or we just surrender and go with the flow (with awareness!)
Acceptance.. deep acceptance is the key..
No mind split.. but wholeness.. embrace all as it is.
Nature doesn't compromise. It is total.. it is authentic.
Nature kills to maintain life.
Nature burns to grow a stronger forest.
It is never so so..
If only we can be that much authentic, without mind split, how vibrant and vivid life would be! |
Edited by - christiane on Nov 11 2009 5:37:19 PM |
|
|
|
Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2009 : 6:11:07 PM
|
Hurting people intentionally sounds to me wrong.
Though feel free to do what you like.Karma says by hurting an other you're hurting yourself,least in the long-run. A simple law of cause and effect- the idea being it balances out in the long run.. If you regularly growl at folk in the street rather than be nice and respectful to them , then we shoul'nt be too surprised if something not nice happens to us. On a crude level there is nothing too difficult to fathom about that. But we like to play it over in our mind -because we think why me?- what was done to me was undeserved, or know one is going to know, for e.g,( although you could say God knows). I'm all right joe....That's just a value judgement.
Engaging with AYP or any other effective yoga practices makes the law of karma make increasingly more and more sense.
The issue of concern for sexual diseases can be a bit of a neurosis, but also a reality and justifiable concern.If you put yourself at high risk, then that is your choice , and reap the consequences- good or bad.. STD's could be nature's way of protecting the partner, the offspring and the family unit- of furthering furture evolution.
Accept whatever happens happens. |
Edited by - Akasha on Nov 11 2009 7:04:22 PM |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Sexual Commitment, just a social norm?
