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daisyflowers
USA
5 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 15 2009 : 12:19:06 PM
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I have experimented with various meditation techniques over the past 10 years, including the basic ones on this website. Am very sporadic but trying, always trying, to get a disciplined daily practice together.
Most recently I have simply been watching the breath. What has happened about 4 times over the past year has scared me very much. It happened agin last night and is almost enough to put me off meditating;
After I have been sitting for about 15 minutes, watching the breath, and allowing the thoughts to be noticed and pass away, is awareness of the body starts to slip away and all that is sensed is darkeness, warmth, tingling, slight pulsating. Then thoughts return and I slip in and out of this 'state'.
After about 20 minutes it all becomes quite intense. Awareness of the body disappears altogether and it's like 'I' am slipping out of my body and travelling at great speed into the darkness, or it is rushing towards me. I can't really describe it but to say it's intense on many levels. Tingling, pulsating, possibly humming or other sounds, all boundaries of the body disappear and I am just aware of this huge sensation of energy/falling/pulling. I guess it's so unfamilar that panic or something sets in, like a fear of the unknown, like I might not return to the body.
then what happens is I become aware that I am barely breathing and that my heart is beating EXTREMELY rapidly. And it gets faster and faster, and my body starts to rock with the intensity of it and I feel somewhere deep down that if I don't return from this state ASAP I will have a heart attack and die. I can hear my heart beat in my ears, it becomes so loud. Last time it happened I was with a friend and we both felt like we were tripping out and were very spooked by it. We both seemed to be going through it together.
Last night, I pulled myself back very quickly but it was almost painful to 'come back' to my body so abruptly. I had to open my eyes, with great difficulty, and was in a state. My heart took about 10 minutes to begin slowing down. I was very ungrounded and spacey, experienced a lot of energy and tingling through the core of my body, thinking I was seeing things out of the corner of my eye, was shaking for 1/2 hour, and even had stomach cramps from fear I presume. I thought I had gone insane.
What the heck is going on??!!
I'd be so grateful for any insight into this matter. |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2009 : 3:15:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by daisyflowers
I have experimented with various meditation techniques over the past 10 years, including the basic ones on this website. Am very sporadic but trying, always trying, to get a disciplined daily practice together.
Most recently I have simply been watching the breath. What has happened about 4 times over the past year has scared me very much. It happened agin last night and is almost enough to put me off meditating;
After I have been sitting for about 15 minutes, watching the breath, and allowing the thoughts to be noticed and pass away, is awareness of the body starts to slip away and all that is sensed is darkeness, warmth, tingling, slight pulsating. Then thoughts return and I slip in and out of this 'state'.
After about 20 minutes it all becomes quite intense. Awareness of the body disappears altogether and it's like 'I' am slipping out of my body and travelling at great speed into the darkness, or it is rushing towards me. I can't really describe it but to say it's intense on many levels. Tingling, pulsating, possibly humming or other sounds, all boundaries of the body disappear and I am just aware of this huge sensation of energy/falling/pulling. I guess it's so unfamilar that panic or something sets in, like a fear of the unknown, like I might not return to the body.
then what happens is I become aware that I am barely breathing and that my heart is beating EXTREMELY rapidly. And it gets faster and faster, and my body starts to rock with the intensity of it and I feel somewhere deep down that if I don't return from this state ASAP I will have a heart attack and die. I can hear my heart beat in my ears, it becomes so loud. Last time it happened I was with a friend and we both felt like we were tripping out and were very spooked by it. We both seemed to be going through it together.
Last night, I pulled myself back very quickly but it was almost painful to 'come back' to my body so abruptly. I had to open my eyes, with great difficulty, and was in a state. My heart took about 10 minutes to begin slowing down. I was very ungrounded and spacey, experienced a lot of energy and tingling through the core of my body, thinking I was seeing things out of the corner of my eye, was shaking for 1/2 hour, and even had stomach cramps from fear I presume. I thought I had gone insane.
What the heck is going on??!!
I'd be so grateful for any insight into this matter.
Hi DaisyFlowers,
What you experienced is an astral projection. Breath meditation is very powerful because watching the breath is sort of the last thing that your mind does when you fall asleep at night. There is a built in mechanism that is contained in breathing that helps to shut off the mind and causes the body to fall asleep. There is also another mechanism in the body that, if you consciously control your breathing, will send energy (prana/chi etc) into whatever you are focusing on.
If you were focusing on your third eye, or some other chakra at precisely the point when you were crossing over the sleep barrier, but were still conscious and aware, you would see what occurs naturally to you every night. The mind, not accustomed to such a new event, is terrified, and this causes the bodily reactions that you are experiencing.
The 'travelling' that you experienced is either the third eye tunnel, or the crown tunnel, it is hard to say. According to what I've read about astral projection, you can leave the body through many of it's chakras. I've left my body from the crown, the third eye and a tunnel at the back of my head.
Yes, there is a jolt if you come back to your body too quickly. Ever have dreams where you are falling and then wake up in your body? Sometimes, if I go out too quickly or forcefully, I get a nauseous feeling in the pit of my stomach, my pulse surges and it feels like I"m going to get very sick and throw up. Apparently this is caused by too much food in the body. The astral body is very fine and the coarseness of matter can jar it.
I enjoy travelling at great speed through space. It looks like you are punching a rainbow colored hole through what looks like black space. And yes, sometimes things go whizzing by.
It takes a while to get back in your body and re-oriented because the brain releases chemicals into the body that freeze it when we sleep. This is a body protection to prevent us from acting out our dreams. It always takes a while for the chemicals to wear off so sometimes, if woken abruptly or being snapped back into the body by the silver chord that attaches you to it, you might experience temporary paralysis.
The main thing you have to conquer is the fear of death. You won't die, but it sure feels like it!
There are a few good books about astral projection. One of them is called "Journeys Out of the Body" by Robert Monroe. Another is "The Key to Secret Worlds" by Paul Twitchell.
Depending on your goals, you will probably have to learn to recognize when you are falling asleep during medition, and not get carried away into the void.. You have to get past the sleep/dream phase if you want to get deeper.. What I do is take over the breath and consciously breathe until I get passed that stage. The other thing you can do is just stay away from the head. Focus on the feeling of spirit/God/presence in the body instead.
Hope this helps.
Good luck on your journey.
:)
TI
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Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Oct 15 2009 3:25:17 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2009 : 5:47:59 PM
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Hi Daisyflowers
Thank you for bringing your experiences to the forum. I didn't read Tibetan Ice's post....will do that tomorrow since it's late here now...but let me just tell you this:
It is very important not to force ourselves when in comes to opening up for the wonder that is our true nature.
What you are experiencing is not unusual.....it is simply signs of deep purification in the nrevous system. But..the thing is...when it becomes overwhelming and scary and uncomfortable like you are experiencing...the best thing to do is what we in AYP call "self-pace". You can read about it in Yoganis lesson here...it simply mean we adjust the practice according to the level of sensitivity. In your case...that would first of all mean cutting down the time you sit....do 5 minutes only for a few days...and see if that calms it down:
http://www.aypsite.org/38.html
The most important regarding practices is the consistency of it...in other words....better to go slow and steady...than in big jumps that leads to overload.....and then less practices...and then on and on like this.....
No need to think or worry about any of the visions/feelings/energies etc that you were feeling during the practice....none of that needs to be focused on. Simply reduce the sitting time so that you stop before it takes you into all that......
Also....grounding is important. Go for walks. Hug some trees. Stay active between meditation times......
Will come back and write more tomorrow if noone else has chipped in...must go to bed now.
You are ok Daisyflower...just a bit of roughness that will calm down when you adjust the practice accordingly.
All the best  |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2009 : 7:39:45 PM
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Hi Daisyflower and welcome to the forum.
You have received some good advice from TI and Katrine above. I just wanted to add that it seems like you are experiencing two things at once here. As TI says, this is astral projection, and at the same time, the experience of astral projection is putting a strong pull on your already active kundalini energy. Spontaneous astral projection is a symptom of purification and is nothing to worry about. The active kundalini is purification happening and is also nothing to worry about.
The experience of energy moving through the core of your body, the tingling and shaking are classical symptoms of kundalini being active in the body. By cutting back on the amount of time you spend meditating each day (as Katrine recommends above), you can regulate the rate at which kundalini is purifying your body. Gradually it becomes less about vibrations, shaking and racing hearts, and more about rapture and ecstasy. When this happens, spontaneous experiences such as astral projection, become much less frightening and you can enjoy the ride. 
It can actually be an amazing and very beautiful experience.
I would also suggest that if you are sitting in meditation and you feel yourself slipping into this state, then that would be a good time to go and do something else (like make the tea). You can always come back to the meditation later in the day, or the next day. No rush...
All the best,
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Oct 15 2009 8:03:50 PM |
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daisyflowers
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2009 : 10:00:51 PM
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I am SO grateful for the advice you have all given me. If only I had come here and asked a year ago! I was thinking that it might be because I was sitting for too long after a prolonged absence from meditation. So I will definitely be cutting back. Perhaps 10 minutes at a time instead of 25.
I always focus on the third eye while noticing the breath. Tibetan_Ice, thanks for such a great description of what was happening to me. It has really helped me understand and shed some of the fear. I researched astral projection further and found that it described perfectly what was happening. I appreciate the reassurance that I wouldn't die but still don't believe it! I've never felt my heart beat so hard, even after sprinting. I'm not sure my body can handle it even though I'm only 39.
So this also explains what has often been happening to me at bedtime for the past few months. I haven't been meditating again until a few days ago but going to bed has lately become something I dread. Just as I fall asleep I get the same experience and i only just linked the two together after reading your emails. As I nod off, I feel I am about to die. Something alters hugely, in a snap, and I'm flying and falling and sinking and seeing throbbing black and white spots before my closed eyes and my heart races and I sit up and make myself wake up. I'm afraid to go to bed. I can limit my meditations but any advice about bedtime would be appreciated. I actually started meditating again as a means to deal with what I presumed was anxiety at bedtime. I guess it's the same thing-I'm falling asleep consciously?
Tibetan_Ice-can you elaborate on your last para?
"you will probably have to learn to recognize when you are falling asleep during medition, and not get carried away into the void.. You have to get past the sleep/dream phase if you want to get deeper.. What I do is take over the breath and consciously breathe until I get passed that stage. The other thing you can do is just stay away from the head. Focus on the feeling of spirit/God/presence in the body instead."
I thought I was being succesful meditator (!) when all thoughts abated and there was simple awareness. But really I have fallen asleep? I guess I'm identifying with the experience of astral projection rather than coming back to the breath. I guess I always thought I should be experiencing 'something' in order to know I was making progress. If I come away from a meditation and was identifying with my thoughts right up until I open my eyes I feel like it was a waste of time.
Thank you Katrine for your reassurance and I will read about self pacing. Infact I will start reading the whole website again and start the AYP practices right from the start. I've been trying to go this alone for years and now realize that I can't because sometimes it's just too strange or scary!
Christi-looking forward to the rapture and ecstacy! Though I don't know how I would be able to dispassionately watch it come and go and not cling to it as I have learnt I should. Your advice goes against everything I thought I should be doing-ie, if you feel myself slipping into it, then come back down and go do something else, but I will definitely be taking your advice.
I'm feeling a LOT happier now! |
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kaserdar
91 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2009 : 04:31:04 AM
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Hello daisyflowers,
I experience these same symptoms during sleep sometimes. I had searched this on web and found the following.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explod...ead_syndrome
Till now I didn't know this can be Astral Projection thank you for explanation Tibetan Ice.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2009 : 10:09:41 AM
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Hi Daisyflowers,
quote:
Christi-looking forward to the rapture and ecstacy! Though I don't know how I would be able to dispassionately watch it come and go and not cling to it as I have learnt I should.
Yes, rapture and ecstasy can be even more of a distraction in meditation than either astral projection, or kundalini imbalances. All grist for the mill for the aspiring Yogi.
quote:
Your advice goes against everything I thought I should be doing-ie, if you feel myself slipping into it, then come back down and go do something else, but I will definitely be taking your advice.
Yes, the normal advice given in meditation is to keep coming back to the meditation object (in this case the breath) when you are off it and to gradually let the mind rest in the inner silence and spaceousness of it's true nature. But if you are having difficulty staying in your body, and that is causing you to suffer, then stopping the meditation before you leave your body could be helpful. That way you can continue to keep up a regular sitting practice without too much discomfort (and hopefully a lot of enjoyment).
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Oct 16 2009 10:10:46 AM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2009 : 5:47:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by daisyflowers
Tibetan_Ice-can you elaborate on your last para?
"you will probably have to learn to recognize when you are falling asleep during medition, and not get carried away into the void.. You have to get past the sleep/dream phase if you want to get deeper.. What I do is take over the breath and consciously breathe until I get passed that stage. The other thing you can do is just stay away from the head. Focus on the feeling of spirit/God/presence in the body instead."
You have been opening up your third eye by connecting it with the breath during meditation. Congratulations! I think that is wonderful but it can really be a distraction during meditation.
Nowadays I stay away from the third eye during meditation. What was happening to me was that I was seeing faces, scenes, moving images, massive amounts of scenes, wonderful and strange places, people, places and things all go whizzing by in some kind of high speed vortex. At first it was fun. As it got more intense, I was considering giving 'terror' a place on the podium but a part of me thought that it was really neat so I continued. Eventually it felt overpowering like it was growing more and more intense, like I was losing control and was going to dissolve or expand infinately. After a few weeks of meditations like that I decided to quit the mantra repetition (while focusing on the third eye -sambhavi) because that didn't seem like stillness to me. Now I 'sense the inner body' and keep my eyes facing downwards for my meditations. I try to feel and just let go of the mind, ignore it, turn it off by putting more energy into feeling the sensation of the inner body's life presence. It is very healing and feels great (ecstatic, blissfull, peacefull, better than sex).
Now I am going to tell you the magic number that I've discovered. It is '20 minutes'. A long time ago I attempted 'levitation meditation' where you imagine a silver chord coming from your throat chakra, upwards to your medulla, then out to the tip of your nose, then up to the brow and finally back to the crown. You mentally repeat 'ham'. I was determined to succeed so I practiced every day for one hour. What I noticed is that after 20 minutes of sheer effort and resolve, my body would dissolve and I would become a cloud of vapour. What remained was what I can describe as an upside-down waterfall in my head, starting from the middle of my upper neck leading upwards towards the crown. This waterfall felt like it was pulling me upwards! I never did succeed in levitating my body, or perhaps I did but didn't know it.. when you are a cloud and your body is dissolved, you can't even tell where your body is, let alone tell if it was floating around!
But the magic time period is '20 minutes'. According to exercise manuals, the body doesn't kick in and start burning fat until after 20 minutes of exercise. I didn't dissolve during my levitation meditations until at least 20 minutes into the meditations. It takes 20 minutes of performing some similar action (whether that is exercise, meditation, concentration, continual stimulus) before the body (maybe the mind too) switches, adapts and corrects, or kicks in.
You've confirmed and supported my observation with your statement that "After about 20 minutes...". So, on a simple level, if you keep your meditations under 20 minutes, then the 20 minute mark effect
shouldn't kick in. I believe that the 20 minute mark is when the body or mind kicks in and tries to deal with continual stimulus, and one solution it has is 'falling asleep'.
That said, once you know how to go deep quickly, it only takes a few seconds, the 20 minute rule does not apply anymore. This is my technique. I totally relax the body and I roll up my eyes, feel the swirling energy behind the eyebrows in the frontal third eye cavity and pretend I'm going to daydream or take a light snooze. I lightly let go of the mind from there. Then I focus on the other darker cavity nearer to the brain stem, behind the third eye, and 'pretend' that I'm falling asleep (it is that same feeling). In a matter of seconds, the mind becomes a dizzy disoriented swirling cloud of movement, the third eye visions appear in the front of the face but more importantly, a black hole opens up in the center of my head. If I keep pressing into that black hole, my brain loses consciousness and it feels like I'm about to die or pass out. That's when I get the sick feelings, my heart beat races and I sometimes I feel like I'm going to throw up, depending on how much I've eaten that day.
But, as I discovered a while ago, my awareness is still watching from the background, cool and calm, recording every detail and I can still kind of 'think'. You have to shift your perception or point of view further back, out of the body, behind the body, maybe even closer to 3 feet behind the heart to learn that. So that is possibly one solution for you. Adopt the point of view or shift your perception so that you are about 3 feet behind your heart watching.. (I admit this is not easy to do and perhaps doesn't help you at all.) Maybe, when you go into the vortex, notice that there is another part of you that is watching from that location, then you'll realize that the real you is not leaving or dying or being affected.. and then "who cares"? It's a cartoon world. You are Bugs Bunny. It's all Maya.
Another solution is this (which I do often) is this. At night when you go to bed, remember a scene that you like very much. I have one scene (from a past life regression) of a rolling field, blue sky, green trees and a ploughed field (by horse) that I remember and then jump in and start flying over the field. Before I know it I'm gone. So instead of being dragged into the pool, you jump into to the pool yourself, into something you've chosen and like.
Yes, if you are seeking the truth or enlightenment or the meaning of life, then yes, you have to learn how to completely let go of the body and mind to the point where you are no longer breathing and your heart is stopped. If you relax enough, your metabolism slows down to the point where your blood stays oxegenated so no harm comes to the body. Along the way of the descent into deep relaxation and letting go, you will pass through the dream stage, then the dreamless stage and then the ones below that (theta?) I've often heard meditation being referred to as a method of burning up the veil between the conscious and the subconscious, and, the veil between the waking world and the dream world.
That isn't the only way to shift your perception, though. There are many ways. I was in a motorcycle accident when I was 16 and as I flew over the station wagon that I had t-boned, everything went in slow motion and I watched it all from about 30 feet away. I watched my body fly over the station like it was a movie. When my body hit the pavement and bounced a few times, my awareness was back in the body. That was really what started my quest to find out what life was really about. That experience taught me that you can experience shifts in perception during some traumatic event.
You might want to try some meditations that consists of watching your thoughts. Watch your thoughts or listen to your thoughts. Hold a thought in your mind until it dissolves. Hold another thought in your mind until you realize that a thought has a component to it that is not entirely visual or auditory. It is like looking at a picture but at the same time realizing the meaning of the picture. It is like the meaning is part of the thought. Thoughts are sticky, but will dissolve after a while and quickly too if you don't give them any attention. Also, watching a thought puts space in between the watcher and the thought. And a great thing to do is watch your thoughts, the rate of new thoughts etc and then try sensing the inner body and see how many thoughts come up. Sensing the inner body is a great way to drain or stop the mind. Many times I end up in this clear space cavern sort of place and I notice "Oh, there is a thought", but it is very small, thin and barely visible. And then, nothing for a long time.
If you breathe into the thought and give it attention, it grows. If you just watch it with very little interest, gradually a space develops between you and the thought and eventually the thought dissolves back into silence. It works the same way for dreams. If you sit back and watch, instead of letting the meaning or quality of the dream entice your awareness, you won't end up being sucked into the dream. I have gotten to a point where I noticed that if you don't breathe out into the thought and/or dream, your awareness stays out of it, like you are just witnessing it. You know how, when you are really concentrating, you kind of take over the breathing and make it slow, steady and continuous, no pauses between breaths, as if you were intently listening? That is the kind of breathing I'm referring to.
Ok, probably wrote too much, but then...
To summate, (here are some suggestions, take them or leave them):
1) Quit focusing on the third eye during meditation. Try a different style of meditation. I think you will probably do this now that you are aware of what you have been doing.. :)
2) Cut your meditation time to less than 20 minutes so you don't hit the magic '20 minute' limit.
3) At night, pick an astral scene and jump in instead of it choosing you. Be sure to pick a place that you love.
4) Eat something substantial before going to bed (bad idea and bad habit to get into as this could cause weight gain). But, in emergencies, it will ground you.
5) Learn to shift your attention outside of the body, about 3 feet behind the heart. You will become the dispassionate witness and realize that it all isn't as serious as it feels..
6) Take up "Thought watching" meditation, which will help you detach from participating in thoughts. Become the watcher, not the doer. Also, be aware of the moments of silence between thoughts. It is during those moments that you will find the prescence of God/truth, the all pervading substance that joins everything together.
7) Read more books on astral travel.
Actually I know of a good book on the Third Eye. The more your read about it the less fear you will have.
It is called "Awakening the Third Eye" by Samuel Sagan.
http://www.clairvision.org/ckb/ckbe...00_0003.html
Sagan has a lot of stuff in that free ebook and I don't practice much of it now. My mind is getting too cluttered and I'm not finding a lot of value in the vast astral planes.. I'm trying to let go instead.. But I did do a lot of grasping first before I decided to let go.
Good luck!
:)
TI
**Please note: The experiences, practices, solutions (or lack of) described in this post are not related to the AYP teachings. If you are not an experienced meditator, it is best to start at the beginning of the AYP lessons and keep it simple. |
Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Oct 18 2009 12:24:23 AM |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2009 : 12:34:51 PM
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Hi Daisyflowers, and welcome!
You have good advice on the AYP approach from Katrine and Christi.
Tibetan Ice has his own approach, which does not necessarily represent the AYP system of practices. He will be the first to tell you that, and should always do so when offering advice on practices, so we can avoid unnecessary confusion.
When in doubt, check the AYP lessons.
Wishing you all the best for a progressive and stable path. Enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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Lacinato
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2009 : 3:22:41 PM
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| I just wanted to reaffirm that less can be more, when we self-pace appropriately. I have had greater progress with very short meditations than with twenty minute meditations--just because of where I am/was at that point. Seems to be very common :) |
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Autumn
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2012 : 10:36:29 AM
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Hi people,
I am very sorry to hijack this thread but I could not have put my own (very similar) experience in better words than daisyflowers. Please bear with me.
I just joined the forum a couple of mins. ago. I came across this thread while searching google. I have had a very similar experience. I have been meditating for about a year now and had no progress so far. I have never had an unusual experience apart from lying down with a blindfold and trying hard to avoid thoughts. But, last night I felt as though something plugged in. The usual darkness that I always saw with closed eyes sort of grew ... not in size but it kind of grew on Me. Seamless thoughts continued doing their business but I was no longer bothered with them. I was fully aware of me lying down in meditation and my daughter in the other room walking about, but this time it was not the usual lying down and looking at the darkness. It was like the darkness was in control of me or something, some tingling or maybe numbing was happening, especially around my head. There was some buzzing like feeling too. Hard to describe.
I tried it again a couple of times since last night and it has worked each time .. only with slightly less intensity.
About a couple of hours ago I went on Youtube and played the following clip on regular TV volume on my computer ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4td...ture=related
And within 20 mins time I was engulfed by this darkness, I was tingling, buzzing and extremely scared. I pulled away my blindfold to stop this. My heart was racing like anything. I just remember the continuos Om sound in the clip got to me and was no longer playing on the computer, it was playing in my head. I have always tried binaural beats to no avail in the past 1 year but this one hit me hard. I chickened out really quickly and main element of fear being that such sound can harm the basic working of my brain. I felt I might go crazy or something. My entire body was tingling and the heart was pounding towards the end.
Question here is ... can I continue to use this clip as this is the only thing that seems to work instantly. Can my doubts about it actually being harmful for my brain be true? Will I ever get delivered from this really scary darkness to the promised bliss during such a session?
Please help me :( |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2012 : 12:23:58 PM
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Hi Autumn and welcome to the forums.
In AYP we do not use the OM mantra straight away because it can wreak havoc on a nervous system that is not ready. So I would recommend that you stay away from the video in future.
For starters we use the I AM mantra that is explained in this lesson http://www.aypsite.org/13.html
The experience you explain sounds like some heavy purification is happening. It's happened to me also, and I have read that it is the start of an Astral Projection; tingling, heart racing etc. We call experiences such as that as 'scenery'. Nice to glance at but not worth dwelling on.
With regular, safe practice (i.e self paced http://www.aypsite.org/38.html) you should be able to progress at a comfortable speed, without the sudden fireworks that you have experienced. And yes, bliss will appear over time with effective practices - AYP.
Basically I am just repeating what Christi and Katrine have said in the thread! But if something is worth saying, might as well say it again!
If you have anymore questions we are here to help. |
Edited by - woosa on May 16 2012 12:30:43 PM |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2012 : 12:28:52 PM
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Hi Autumn and welcome to AYP forums!
Such symptoms can be very common when falling into trance, and probably everyone experiences them while falling asleep at one point or another. There is some evidence some of them can even be measured directly, such as PGO wave patterns occurring among those respective structures of the brain apparently associated with vibrations and buzzing. It is natural for that to occur as are all changes in the body and its subtle counterparts during the course of 24 hours.
Witnessing them at first can be starting, and the body naturally reacts accordingly, by increasing pulse rate, breathing, etc. However, it is also hard to tease apart simple trance symptoms from real physical changes. For example, rapid heart beat could have nothing to do with your heart rate, but only later if we react with fear does the pulse rise, leading to the sometimes false conclusion that it was the heart beating rapidly all along when it was not. Another example is sleep paralysis, which usually accounts for the sense of numbness or heaviness. Sometimes it really is a body part going numb because of the position in bed, but if it is from normal sleep paralysis which prevents us from physically acting out dreams every night, it is just another symptom of trance.
AYP favors its own form of twice-daily meditation practice, but sitting upright and with silent mantra repetition. The practice does not require any feedback to be effective, be it trance symptoms or other forms of distractions, especially not during meditation itself. Binaural beats and all variations of brainwave entrainment, as advertised on the products themselves, simply act much like training wheels on a bike, learning to synchronize both hemispheres while also reaching into the lower brainwaves states deliberately. They are inert in and of themselves. If the training wheels are discarded, and you pair the method after waking up early in the night, you would likely enter a dream while still awake. Deep meditation, on the other hand, does not worry about what goes on and instead keeps things as simple as possible with minimal external distractions, which is why it is so effective.
Trance symptoms cannot cause any harm any more than regular falling asleep does, no matter how real and intense they feel, unless they start interfering with a normal sleep pattern leading to sleep deprivation, in which case it could help to cut back and resume a normal sleeping pattern. |
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Autumn
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2012 : 1:09:41 PM
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| Oh thanks a million AumNatural. This helps a great deal. Also it will help me remember there is nothing to fear while having another such trance. Thank you. |
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Autumn
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2012 : 07:57:06 AM
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Okayyy, I get it now. So basically, no matter how out of ordinary or how unusual it is, an experience is but an experience. mhmmm. A bit like saying those who skydive have a different experience from those who scuba dive yet they have not done anything that is outside of experience. That can only mean that any experience during meditation, usual or unusual is still our mind playing up and is rather a distraction. But, then it also means that experience will never stop. Or in other words body/mind will never stop experiencing. At least as long as they themselves exist.
One meditates to remain as that stillness that one originally is before experience starts to overpower, much like the tail wagging the dog. But, what is so wrong with the experience that one would not want it. The bitter sweet life is beautiful. Why would I trade the beautiful colours of nature, the sound of a woodpecker making his humble home, the warmth of my husband's arms over the still void of nothingness? Is that stillness really more beautiful than life itself? Is it just all about, 'Yes the experience is beautiful but detachment will make us see the beauty in the not so appeasing experiences too and it will end suffering.' But, what kind of a strange phenomenon will make the enlightened one appreciate joy without the existence of suffering. Or is there more to this that a novice like me is overlooking? You are already there, please could you attest that?
Is meditation a way of achieving non-experience? Now I am even more directionless. All this while meditation was an addictive game that kept me on the hamster wheel when I hoped for an unusual experience. Something to work with, something that would give me an idea about what it is like to progress in meditation or even spiritual journey. That night I felt, aha so I am getting somewhere ... and omg I was still on the wheel, right? Autumn all the way.
Becoming a better human being was never the reason to start the journey as right in the beginning I realised the journey is about the evaporation of the human being. I felt this can only happen through meditation and one day I will be able to drop the ego for good. That night I felt it is working, but, now I know that no matter how much the human being tries s/he can not come off the wheel. Meditation might at best cement the fact that, Autumn does not exist.
Autumn meditating is an experience too, it too is What IS. Are there really 'no' reasons for meditation? Why meditate then? You would obviously advise me to carry on practicing. But for what? Autumn does not exist is already a fact, not a belief. Could you throw some light on my dilemma? Could you guide me at this stage?
Hugs
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2012 : 09:27:33 AM
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Hi Autumn
All I can suggest is to drop any expectations of what meditation should or shouldn't be. And just do it!
Meditation will take you through these stages of the mind:
http://aypsite.org/327.html
I would advise against slipping into non-relational self inquiry - "Autumn does not exist". I beg to differ with that observation because you are reading this and typing on a keyboard. You will have to eat and drink something today. You are still a human being living a human life!
AYP is not centered on Advaita/ Self-Inquiry. First you must cultivate inner silence through meditation and other practices. You can use Advaita/ Self-Inquiry later on. But it is much more fruitful if you have some inner silence already present.
This lesson should help http://aypsite.org/322.html
I know where you are coming from with "what's the point of meditating". I had the same thoughts too. But that's all they are - thoughts! We are meditating to transcend pre-witnessing/ identifying our thoughts because we will get nowhere if we keep trying to solve spiritual matters with theory.
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Edited by - woosa on May 18 2012 09:29:06 AM |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2012 : 4:23:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Autumn
That can only mean that any experience during meditation, usual or unusual is still our mind playing up and is rather a distraction.
I would simplify that, and just say if you are meditating during the time you set for meditation, any deliberate deviation from the instructions means you are no longer meditating. The suggestion is to easily favor the instructions for meditation during your meditation session, and maintain a regular schedule doing so.
Honoring the habit is very important, even if the time available for it varies on any given day. I believe the reason for this is with more openings and purification, it is possible to encounter strong inner tendencies to go off into feelings, sensations, etc., all of which is collectively regarded during a session as 'scenery' (regardless of what it may or may not be), and without an equal commitment to meditation, it will become nearly impossible to build up a 'center' stable enough to let go of these experiences.
quote:
But, what is so wrong with the experience that one would not want it.
Nothing is wrong with experience. During meditation, however, experiences may or may not happen, and it doesn't matter since they are just inert effects and not causes, as the lessons often remind us. Meditation, a non-doing practice that is like having a mirror polish itself...allow it to polish and don't invite more dust during the procedure.
What you do outside of your sessions is of course your call, just so long as they don't interfere. It is a good idea to also have more purification than accumulation of the very 'dust' (samskaras in mind and body) that's being cleared.
You bring up great questions that fall well in line with principles promoted for self-inquiry from different sources. It is of course encouraged, and done on your own terms depending on your own inclinations. Just remember that AYP makes use of a holistic approach that is put together in a particular way for reasons that become more evident as we use them daily and over time. I go by the suggestion to favor the basics (starting with Deep meditation), and all else will find its place. |
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Scary meditation experience
