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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 03 2009 : 5:09:43 PM
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What are people's opinion of the Abramelin operation?
The Abramelin operation seems real similar to certain Tibetan Buddhist and Hindu practices. I am sure that all mystical traditions have something like this.
The only problems I have with the Abramelin operation personally are a) its emphasis on constantly apologizing for sins b)praying to an external God c) seeing the HGA as something separate from oneself
Of course these three issues are a byproduct of the Judaic background of these teachings. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2009 : 9:25:45 PM
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What's the similarity that you see?
It seems as if it'd be really challenging. I once had a book on it.
Of course there's a lot of tales surrounding it, such as people not finishing the operation and unleashing "demonic forces" in those places. Fun stuff. |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2009 : 12:06:29 AM
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I see similarity to Buddism, in the concept of wisdom which may take on personal form as a master, but is your own wisdom. This would be the HGA. And of course the goal of Buddhism is elevating your good qualities and eliminating the bad (which then results in nirvana), which is what the Abramelin operation is.
I see similarity in Hinduism, with tapas, darshan, tantric (academic definition of tantric) practice.
I see similarity to what Jesus did in the desert, or to what the prophet Mohammed did in the cave Hira.
Of course all the above refers to only the first half of the operation regarding the HGA. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Nov 01 2009 12:18:01 AM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2009 : 11:30:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
I see similarity to Buddism, in the concept of wisdom which may take on personal form as a master, but is your own wisdom. This would be the HGA. And of course the goal of Buddhism is elevating your good qualities and eliminating the bad (which then results in nirvana), which is what the Abramelin operation is.
I see similarity in Hinduism, with tapas, darshan, tantric (academic definition of tantric) practice.
I see similarity to what Jesus did in the desert, or to what the prophet Mohammed did in the cave Hira.
Of course all the above refers to only the first half of the operation regarding the HGA.
Hi Alwayson,
Reference to some of this "similar symbolism" (to Eastern-originated traditions, such as Buddhism and Hinduism) ... is what I was talking about in the threads I started a few months back (Yogic Christianity, Yogic Judaism, etc.) ...
... and I fully agree with your basic premise, regarding similarities to practices in other traditions.
There's an author (Israel Regardie) and a book by him (Tree Of Life: An Illustrated Study In Magic) ... which contains an entire chapter entitled
The Sacred Magic Of Abramelin The Mage.
The entire book is online at Google Books (minus some pages; they want you to buy the book, of course ...) -- the link above takes you directly to the chapter on Abramelin.
I'm reading it right now, and am very impressed with it.
I've never been big on "magic" ... but am realizing that among certain teachers, "magic" is the same as mysticism, initiatic tradition and yoga -- and is all and only about the realization of the fulness of consciousness.
Israel Regardie ties in similarities between Eastern and Western traditions, as well as similarities within Western esoteric paths (paths derived from Egyptian mysticism; Kabbalah, etc.; alchemy, Golden Dawn, etc.) ... in a way that I've found helpful, in terms of understanding symbolism, and where the symbolism points.
For instance, YHVH (Yahweh, name of God) equates with Wand, Cup, Sword, Pentacle in Tarot - Male, Female, Male, Female (Active, Receptive, Active, Receptive).
The V is the "copulative principle" ... the uniting principle ... but is symbolized by a *sword* .... because (this is something all Buddhists will appreciate, I'd guess ....) .... limited mind is a *cutting* instrument!
That's *why* thinking occludes enlightenment!
So many people are trying to create awareness of wholeness with something (limited mind) that is only designed to chop the world into pieces!
I thought that was a cool/potentially helpful insight ... and just one of the gems I picked up from the book (I'm only a few chapters into it, currently).
I hope this is interesting, and/or helpful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Nov 01 2009 11:45:17 PM |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2009 : 11:38:40 PM
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The ONLY reliable source of information regarding the Abramelin operation is The Book of Abramelin: A New Translation by Georg Dehn and Steven Guth.
Furthermore it contains all the information one needs to complete the operation. There is no need to read anything else.
Someone seems to have taken the time to scan this book as a pdf. So this pdf is floating around... |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Nov 01 2009 11:49:38 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2009 : 10:22:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
The ONLY reliable source of information regarding the Abramelin operation is The Book of Abramelin: A New Translation by Georg Dehn and Steven Guth.
Furthermore it contains all the information one needs to complete the operation. There is no need to read anything else.
Someone seems to have taken the time to scan this book as a pdf. So this pdf is floating around...
Hi Alwayson,
That may be true. I'm a big fan of "closest possible material to the source" - and those authors make a good case for theirs being the closest translation of the Abramelin Operation, to the original.
Israel Regardie's book isn't about the Abramelin Operation, per se; it's about Western magical approaches to consciousness, in general.
Israel Regardie was closely associated with the founders of the Golden Dawn movement (he was Aleister Crowley's personal secretary for several years), and well-versed in the general approaches of Western magic, as a yogic gateway to realizing true nature.
I'm not nearly as concerned with an author's "bonafides", though, as I am of their level of consciousness ... and Israel Regardie was a very conscious guy -- and I'm finding the book I mentioned valuable, at that level, alone.
I didn't mean to imply it was an authoritative source on the Abramelin Operation itself -- though I would guess, based on what I've read, that Regardie likely has some valuable things to say about it. I haven't actually read the chapter I posted a link to (I'm not that far in reading the book; maybe I'll have more comments after reading that chapter. )
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Nov 02 2009 10:38:21 PM |
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thimus
53 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2009 : 05:23:27 AM
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hi : for more information : Aleister Crowley, but know he was called the wickedest man on earth; he himself liked the titel "beast 666".
Regardie is a pupil of Crowley. Alice Bailey called him (AC) the greatest kabbalist.Beatles ,Led Zeppelin, Osbourne and many others liked him, i guess because his extravagance.Now on internet there is an Izabael Dajinn who is very fond of Crowley.
One thing is sure : he was not a "grey mouse".
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 11:51:02 AM
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Anyway, back to the Abramelin operation.
I think one of the most interesting things, is that Abraham von Worms (proabably Maharil) says specifically that anyone of any religion can take part in the operation. If Abraham was Maharil, then that is really surprising, since he was orthodox jewish. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Nov 04 2009 12:33:11 PM |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 5:48:18 PM
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| A man tracks footprints of his elephant while riding on his elephant. |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Nov 05 2009 10:23:22 AM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2009 : 10:10:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
Anyway, back to the Abramelin operation.
I think one of the most interesting things, is that Abraham von Worms (proabably Maharil) says specifically that anyone of any religion can take part in the operation. If Abraham was Maharil, then that is really surprising, since he was orthodox jewish.
Orthodox Judaism, like "orthodox" groups within other religions can be surprisingly open-minded about certain things.
Many kabbalists (such as Maharil) considered themselves "religious" ... Jewish terminology for "orthodox" ... yet Kabbalah is a consummately logical, advaitic and tantric approach to realization .... not what one would normally expect from someone who is "orthodox jewish", I agree; I certainly wouldn't have, prior to learning about Kabbalah.
The fact that the Abramelin Operation is Kabbalistic goes a long way toward explaining why you picked up on its connection with certain tantric or mystical approaches; pure yogic mysticism (experiential spirituality) is largely the same, regardless of tradition, one you get past the differences in specific symbolism and language.
There are quite a few tantric paths with actually require/teach quite a bit of so-called external discipline (body habits, diet, sleep habits, and so on), in order to facilitate internal liberation ... which, based on the little I know about it, seems to be the goal of the Abramelin Operation, as well.
In fact, the experience of the Holy Guardian Angel seems to be equivalent to Nirvikalpa Samadhi, as far as I can tell.
I "Googled" about this, and found that Aleister Crowley said the same thing (for whatever that may be worth.  ).
As with many things spiritual, I think some of the symbolism used by the Abramelin Operation may look suspiciously "primitive" from a modern-mind standpoint (angels and demons and whatnot) ... but appears (based on my fairly cursory study of its parameters, so far) to actually be a way of aligning mental and physical discipline in ways that facilitate the experience of nirvikalpa samadhi (aka "meeting your holy guardian angel") in a manner very similar to certain yogic and tantric approaches --- which seems to be what you (Alwayson) said at the start of this thread, yes?
Have you learned anything else interesting about it?
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2009 : 11:23:01 AM
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HGA is not simply a state of mind.
You actually meet your HGA. It is a a shame that the Abramelin operation became associated with much later magicians like Crowley.
The funniest part is that they didn't even have the correct translation anyway!
But now as of 2006, we do, and its available for purchase at any fine online book store.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...XCNWKC7JJHVV
But it is quite clear that if someone simply becomes a godly, righteous person of common sense wisdom, the HGA will appear.
The Abramelin operation is this only. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Nov 06 2009 3:26:35 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2009 : 11:46:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
HGA is not simply a state of mind.
You actually meet your HGA. It is a a shame that the Abramelin operation became associated with much later magicians like Crowley.
The funniest part is that they didn't even have the correct translation anyway!
But now as of 2006, we do, and its available for purchase at any fine online book store.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...XCNWKC7JJHVV
But it is quite clear that if someone simply becomes a godly, righteous person of common sense wisdom, the HGA will appear.
The Abramelin operation is this only.
Cool .... I may actually check out that book.
Question, though:
if HGA isn't equivalent to Nirvikalpa Samadhi ...... who, or what *is* it?
And, more importantly, who or what is the "you" who meets the HGA?
Basically, the only place a deep mystical practice or operation *can* end up is in unified consciousness.
Anything else is inherently divided, and therefore less primary or original ... and therefore, from the standpoint of realization, at least .... lower.
I would guess that from the standpoint of the Maharil, considering he was a Kabbalist, that the Abramelin Operation wouldn't be worth doing (and therefore, wouldn't have been worth authoring), if it didn't culminate in original awareness.
Maybe look at it this way:
Nirvikalpa Samadhi could be described as "meeting your inner guru".
The whole point of statements such as "meeting your holy guardian angel" or "the guru is in you" .... is that the fundamental illusion of duality ... that we are an inherently *partial* being .... is resolved ... and the reality of inherent unity is known.
What has been "guarding" (as in "guardian angel") all along .... what has been guiding us (as in "inner guru") all along ..... is our own original awareness.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 11:42:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
if HGA isn't equivalent to Nirvikalpa Samadhi ...... who, or what *is* it?
A parallel would be wisdom in Vajrayana. Someone's own wisdom can actually take on a form and give teachings to the person.
It is a part of you, yet is semi-autonomous. It is you, but at a much higher level of consciousness. It has the power of a deity. The key word would be "semi-independent."
If you want a good similar explanation, you can check out the new tenth anniversary edition of Astral Dynamics. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Nov 07 2009 11:46:35 AM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 7:37:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
if HGA isn't equivalent to Nirvikalpa Samadhi ...... who, or what *is* it?
A parallel would be wisdom in Vajrayana. Someone's own wisdom can actually take on a form and give teachings to the person.
It is a part of you, yet is semi-autonomous. It is you, but at a much higher level of consciousness. It has the power of a deity. The key word would be "semi-independent."
If you want a good similar explanation, you can check out the new tenth anniversary edition of Astral Dynamics.
Hi Alwayson,
A key to understanding processes such as the Abramelin Operation, is to remember that everything occurs within a single field of awareness.
Yes, wisdom can take on form ... but that's still not the highest aspect of consciousness/self ... as evidenced by both the duality, and the form, inherent in such an experience.
Experiencing the Holy Guardian Angel as "other", indicates that this is not the highest level of experience.
Your intuition concerning Vajrayana, and connections between the Abramelin Operation (at least in terms of its general structure and approach) and certain tantric processes -- seems to be good.
I had a sense of that as well, which is why I'm discussing this; understanding such correspondences in different systems helps to expand everyone's "resource set" -- and helps us all, as well, to see that many different traditions understand how consciousness actually operates ... and that they offer many insightful and creative methods for breaking through the apparent bonds of illusory duality.
Considering the time and culture (Europe in the Middle Ages), the Abramelin Operation seems to be quite brilliant ... though it is only really revealed to be such when we understand that the Maharil (the presumed original author of the Abramelin Operation, as you mentioned), the kabbalist Abraham Von Worms, must have known that the goal of his Operation was non-dual awareness (any realized kabbalist would of course know and experience that non-dual awareness is the only attainment worth teaching, ultimately -- anything and everything else are stepping stones ... or metaphors).
Tau Malachi at the Sophian Gnosticism forum offers an excellent overview of the realization of supernal, non-dual consciousness as it relates specifically to the Abramelin Operation and the "meeting of the Holy Guardian Angel" that is the culmination of that operation.
(He's one of the few teachers I know of, with a background in Buddhism, Kabbalah, and western esoteric systems ... along with the realization to offer the comprehensive view, from a standpoint of actual realization and experience.)
Tau Malachi's Comments on the Holy Guardian Angel
Excerpts from that forum thread:
"If we are speaking of a holy angel of God or an emanation of Enlightenment, then quite naturally we should expect to be led into knowledge of God and union with God, or into the wisdom of Enlightenment and the experience of Enlightenment. If “knowledge and conversation with the HGA” leads to this development and realization, then the HGA may very well be akin to what we mean by the Light-presence (Messiah) and Light-power (Holy Spirit); but if not, then it would appear to be somehow different than the indwelling Messiah or Christ Self.
Now, in terms of the process of realization, in the experience of what we call Supernal Realization (Messianic Consciousness), although a process of communion may occur in a dualistic way in early generation stage practices, progressively the aim is the experience of union and non-dual realization; if the practices taught for knowledge and conversation with the HGA remain in dualism, then they would not be effective at a certain point in the process of a non-dual realization, but other methods would have to be taken up. "
"In this regard, looking at a classical magical text such as The Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage, for example, from the perspective of our Christian Kabbalah we see an entirely different teaching and practice than what would be taught in most schools of modern occultism or western esotericism – we would see an esoteric teaching hidden within and behind thick veils of symbolic jargon that resembles little, if anything, generally taught in modern occultism on the subject.
In Sophian Gnostic tradition that text is viewed rather like a “Tantra Yoga” with a Yidam and oath-bound wrathful deities, the HGA as discussed in it being viewed much like a wrathful Yidam in Tibetan Buddhism. This parallel to practices in Vajrayana Buddhism would be much closer to teachings on the subject than anything we might find typically find in modern western esotericism and occultism."
"If you are familiar with the principle of the wrathful Yidam in Vajrayana, essentially, it is taking the poison of negativity of the egoistic self and making an antidote from it – transforming a shade or shadow of self-cherishing into a vehicle of enlightenment and liberation, or compassionate activity; thus, in a continuum of practice developed from the “Sacred Magic” in our Christian Kabbalah, what we might mean by the HGA or Maggid might be quite different than how it would be viewed and taught in modern occultism.
In much the same way as in Vajrayana, the Maggid may assume peaceful, blissful and wrathful forms in compassionate activity."
"Perhaps we might put the question of the Messiah and HGA into Buddhist terms for the sake of contemplation. A Bodhisattva is not necessarily a Buddha, but may be on the way to full Buddhahood; however, it is possible for a Buddha to emanate as a Bodhisattva in skillful means for the sake of compassion.
This relates quite distinctly to dialogues on the presence of the Messiah and Maggid as they occur in our tradition, though the term “Maggid” is used in various ways, depending on the body of teachings being given – it can and does assume various meanings, much like the term Shekinah in our tradition."
This pretty much syncs up with what I was saying, as well:
The ultimate experience of the HGA would have to be one of unitive awareness, for it to be worth doing.
It seems that all traditions that are non-dual/tantric ... Vajrayana, Kashmir Shaivism, Kabbalah (the source system of the Abramelin Operation), etc. understand this reality (duality is simply the obscuration of non-duality with limited sense of self), and offer various means and methods for dissolving the illusory sense of self ... for, when the illusory sense of self dissolves ... so does the rest of all limitation (cycle of birth and death, maya, etc.) .. and liberation is revealed as the inherent, original condition of the one self.
Kshemaraja's commentary on the Yoga Spandakarika (one of the foundational texts of non-dual Kashmir Shaivism) states:
"True enough, God and the individual soul are one in the state that arises when the latter makes contact with his own innate power. Even so, he is subject to the "impurity of attachment" which gives rise to the notion "I am the body", etc., in the sense that it is born along with him, when consciousness contracts down from the universal level.
It is due to this impurity that he is full of desire, greedy for a few short moments of fleeting happiness, and thus rendered helpless in the action he takes in order to gain those objects that are the means to it.
He is, in other words, poor in power, for although he may wish to, he cannot achieve his goal.
Such a person's supreme state, the absolute, beyond which there is nothing higher, would manifest according to its true nature, the moment the disruption of the negative effect of Maya, that is, egoity that takes its support from the conditioned body, etc., ceases and is destroyed.
It melts away like a heap of snow by coming into contact with the light of the sun of the authentic ego that transcends all fictitious supports."
Source: The Stanzas On Vibration by Mark S. G. Dyczkowski Page 87.
That sounds like a fairly good overview of the process of the Abramelin Operation (limited self dissolves, original self is revealed), if I'm not mistaken ... pointing once again to your original intuition about this (correspondences between the Abramelin Operation, and processes in certain paths of tantric Buddhism, and other mystical paths) being "spot on", Alwayson.
I hope this is helpful.
And thanks again for mentioning the Abramelin Operation, Alwayson; even with all my extensive reading of somewhat-related material (Kabbalah, etc.) ... I'd never heard of the Abramelin Operation, before you mentioned it, here.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 7:40:38 PM
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By the way, here's a resource I found on the Abramelin Operation; I have no idea how good it is ... but it's a site dedicated to the Abramelin Operation, including a discussion forum.
http://www.abramelin.org/ |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 1:09:09 PM
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I want to warn people that all online sources on the Abramelin operation are crappy because most people are looking for shortcuts.
People do not want to put in the work. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Nov 08 2009 3:26:11 PM |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2009 : 5:55:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
What are people's opinion of the Abramelin operation?
The Abramelin operation seems real similar to certain Tibetan Buddhist and Hindu practices. I am sure that all mystical traditions have something like this.
The only problems I have with the Abramelin operation personally are a) its emphasis on constantly apologizing for sins b)praying to an external God c) seeing the HGA as something separate from oneself
Of course these three issues are a byproduct of the Judaic background of these teachings.
Those sound like pretty big reservations to have.
chinna |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2009 : 9:29:35 PM
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| yeah but thats just me |
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Abramelin Operation
