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littlejerry
USA
60 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 15 2009 : 5:40:11 PM
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So i've started talking to a girl at my work. We had a casual date on Saturday. I told her i liked her last week and would like to get to know her, which is true. Hum on the subject of nonlusting... i've been thinking about her fairly often. It feels only natural that those thoughts can at times be sexual type fantasy scenarios or yea whatever. Is this lusting? having these thoughts? or is lusting when you act on these thoughts and these thoughts alone? I'm only a little sure that it takes an act. But yeah my thoughts and feelings are not only sexual towards her... it seems a nice balance. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2009 : 8:09:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by littlejerry
So i've started talking to a girl at my work. We had a casual date on Saturday. I told her i liked her last week and would like to get to know her, which is true. Hum on the subject of nonlusting... i've been thinking about her fairly often. It feels only natural that those thoughts can at times be sexual type fantasy scenarios or yea whatever. Is this lusting? having these thoughts? or is lusting when you act on these thoughts and these thoughts alone? I'm only a little sure that it takes an act. But yeah my thoughts and feelings are not only sexual towards her... it seems a nice balance.
Hi Littlejerry,
This is one of those relative/absolute kinda things ... meaning: there are multiple answers to your questions.
Absolute First:
Lust, or any other mental desire, is indicative of living from a sense of separate self ... of conceptual partiality.
Reinforcing that sense of separate self with mental fantasy creates impressions, known as vrttis in Sanskrit, which "embed" in long-term memory, and which ultimately need to be neutralized by meditation.
Basically, mental fantasy (of any type) is not in harmony with absolute reality.
However, as long as we "think we are who we think we are" .... our self-conception *is* a bit of mental fantasy, living in a world of mental fantasy.
And so, mental fantasy is quite habitual -- and expands far beyond sexual matters. Thinking of what you have to do for the rest of the day, regretting a certain conversation, imagining another conversation ... all mental fantasy.
So - from the standpoint of the "absolute", the more a given moment is simply experienced now, without mental overlay ... the less work is needed to clear the obstructions enough for the light of reality (clear, thought-free awareness) to shine through.
And now -- the "relative":
Sexual fantasy, and other mental fantasy, is as normal as normal gets.
Depending upon where you are with practices, turning away from sexual fantasy might feel very *un*-natural, and take a whole lot of effort -- which ultimately might involve as much conceptual mental energy as the sexual fantasies, themselves.
I'd say: enjoy the fantasies while they arise naturally; you said it yourself: you have a "feel" for them ... and they basically feel natural and fine.
You'll likely recognize overindulgence (in sexual fantasy) if it arises, just as you'd likely recognize the "artificial feel" of attempting to graft someone else's conditioning-opinion about what "lust" is, onto your own conditioning-opinions.
Be easy with it all, be gentle with yourself, have fun, and practice daily.
In my own life-experience-sadhana ... I used to engage in sexual fantasy a fair amount, a few short years ago.
Then, bit by bit, as sadhana progressed, the inclination just kind of fell away, more and more --- not because there's anything wrong with sexuality or fantasy ... but because all the energy that was tied up in living conceptually was liberated for experiencing the reality of this moment, now.
Was it a sacrifice?
Oh yeah.
It was like giving up an entire dollar, in exchange for ..... well ..... everything, actually ..... like buying the ultimate lottery ticket, the winning of which provides the stability and space of infinite peace, the pure bliss of living unbound -- and the inexpressible joy of outpouring divine love as the reality of each moment I AM now.
What does that translate to in the real world?
It translates into: sitting at a computer, typing out a post, feels better on every level ... from the pure, blessed connectedness of it all, to the sensations of the keys against my fingers, to the sound of Girish's Hanuman (hip-hop-ish version of the Hanuman Chalisa) caressing my hearing and my consciousness, to the amusement and bliss of the pleasant little Coke (a-Cola ....) burp I just had .......... utterly, immeasurably blows away the most delicious sexual fantasy or chemically induced high .... or physical sex .... or anything else .... that I *ever* **thought** I enjoyed, prior to liberation from the tyranny of conceptual conditioning.
And there are simply and literally no words for how infinitely *better* the reality of this is, than the words above can indicate.
Reality beats dreaming ... infinitely-eternally-now (always/all ways).
However, not that long back .... trying to artificially negate sexual fantasy, or any other kind ... wouldn't have gained me anything; my default sense of consciousness just wasn't ready to do that yet.
Basically .... certain things can be "jump-started" ... if turning away from conceptual thinking feels natural and easy ... it can be helpful to do so.
In Kabbalah, there's an expressing: "Stitching with one hand, while undoing the stitch with the other."
Conceptual thinking is like that.
In meditation, the pure light of silence clears out the vrttis ... the misconceptions stored in long-term memory ... and fresh conceptual thinking adds more vrttis back in.
However, in my experience, this is *not* a 1:1 correlation ... more like 10:1 in favor of meditation.
As In: if you just keep living your life normally, and with some semblance of awareness (as it sounds like you have), and practice daily ... you'll be fine.
More than fine, in fact.
You'll be enlightened.
I hope this helps.
Heart Is Where The AUM Is,
Kirtanman |
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littlejerry
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2009 : 8:25:16 PM
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| Thank you Kirtanman |
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littlejerry
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2009 : 8:26:25 PM
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| lol so when are topics deleted and who does that? idk that there is anything else to add to this topic... or are they stored? well whichever |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2009 : 10:40:05 PM
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Lust is a feeling. Desire. Wanting... It's in your mind. Screwing is screwing. Just b/c you're screwing doesn't mean you're lusting, and just b/c you're lusting doesn't mean you're screwing.
It sometimes helps to look into the lusting mind and sense the feelings in there of joy while imagining the sex. If you can have the joy without the wanting, that's the trick. |
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littlejerry
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2009 : 06:50:14 AM
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| nice konchok i like... lol |
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littlejerry
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2009 : 07:02:23 AM
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So i've got a store i go into pretty often in town. A very cute girl works behind the counter. Into "pretty often" just the past 3 weeks and... 2 maybe 3 times. Anyway we talk or whatever its real relaxed. I was picking out a "help quit" smoking pack/patch. Wasnt just gonna pick out the first thing i saw... i read about all they had. Anyway after i picked one i went home to look it up on the internet (this is before buying) got more information and went back to buy it. HA as i was leaving my house i thought "i'm going back simply to talk to that girl" it wasnt an immediately needed thing. But i was going thats for sure. Went back she wasnt behind the counter... walked to counter bought the box and left. Got home and was thinking... i could quite cigs on my own if i chose to. Anyway thats what i'm doing. HUM on the girl in the store... i went to the store 3 times that night... the last time was to return and get money back. IDK i was proud? i was nonlustful? i was something anyway for not looking for her the last 2 times. So on the reply before this... yea the thoughts might of been a littttle "unpure", in the fact that i went back simply for the reason of flirting. But there was some joy in knowing i didnt "act" on this, and go looking for her or whatever.
LOL just thought i'd share. |
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manig
India
88 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2009 : 08:45:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by littlejerry
It feels only natural that those thoughts can at times be sexual type fantasy scenarios or yea whatever. Is this lusting? having these thoughts? or is lusting when you act on these thoughts and these thoughts alone?
if you remain aware during your thoughts (whatever type)
you will see it is not you who is thinking
in this case, your inner self wants to expand/procreate with the union of the opposite
such signals when interpreted by your mind with accumulated knowledge/experiences of the past, are pictured into lust
if you can block the road of your mind and perceive the signals directly
there will be no pictures... no lust
then you will look at her as a whole... no face, eyes, breast, hips etc.
but just a girl. |
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littlejerry
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2009 : 09:56:10 AM
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| thanks manig |
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littlejerry
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2009 : 3:15:27 PM
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| manig... i'm at work and still am at work lol imma add something or ask something on what you said... but still thank you. |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 09:29:51 AM
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To me, "lust" is more the physical component of love. I love my wife, but I also lust for her, I want to make her happy, blissful, feeling wanted and appreciated. Lust is one of the mechanisms to accomplish that. Lust is nothing more than "a deep feeling of sexual desire and attraction." There is nothing inherently unhealthy with it! I also have 3 other powerful connections to her besides the physical lust. I have a deep emotional connection to her, a romantic attachment which includes acceptance, commitment, respect, caring and friendship. Perhaps the difference is that physical lust causes me to want to MAKE children with her, while emotional love causes me to want to RAISE children with her. Then there is the intellectual connection, the sharing, appreciation and adoration of her wisdom, thoughts, insights and knowledge. Lastly is our spiritual connection, which is about our mutual seeking of god and fulfillment, the search for meaning and purpose, and sharing practices, rituals and techniques to help us accomplish these goals. Intellectual, Spiritual, Emotional and Physical Love (lust) all must balance to make a happy and lasting relationship.
Michael |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 4:29:18 PM
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Hi Little Jerry,
IMHO, a tendency towards visualizing, planning or daydreamng splits one's focus away from here & now. A remain of teenage fancies, sort of. I'd ask for a date, go for it for real instead, in small steps or in big ones, with lust, love, and not least, with as much presence of mind as possible - in every moment. When she's around, focus on her and on making her happy. When she's not, stay present in whatever else you're doing - staying present/focused makes the best preparatory exercise for the presence in bed a litle later. In other words, rather than thinking about the pleasant future situation, or the past, exercise the consciousness useful in that situation, and extremely useful if you want to stay pre-orgasmic.
This BtW. is quite universal, independent of pleasant/unpleasant: Thinking about swine flu every now and then will make you sick or insane or both - whereas washig your hands and strengthening the abilities of your immune system here & now (by means of asana, pranayama, meditation, functional foods, habits, etc.) improves your odds of coping succesfully when it arives.
Best of luck!
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littlejerry
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 7:12:21 PM
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| Thanks for all the replies... we are going out tomorrow night lol wish me luck. |
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lust/nonlust
