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ventilator
15 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 14 2009 : 10:06:02 AM
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Hi all,
I will describe my problem hopefully I can get some help here.
I get easily hurt if some disturbing thing happens. For example if someone says something bad at work, I come home and keep thinking of it all night. Even for small things that might not appear big at that time, keep growing in my mind and I find myself thinking about that one event all evening and night.
I used to be like this even before I started meditation but things havent gotten any better for me after 3-4 years. I tried other meditations along with ayp too but it didnt help. Infact to be exact things have worsened over years. One of the primary reasons I took to meditation was this over-thinking or sensitivity of mine.
There is a guy trying to bully me at work - he is not my boss but wants to make me report to him and does all kinds of work politics. The problem is not him. The problem is my mind. If my mind is right, I would have left that thing at office itself. I dont know what to do now. Things are getting worser. I am married now and I come home and stay aloof from my wife thinking about a stupid thing that happened at work. I talked to a friend of mine and he suggested that I take some anti-depressants that can alleviate this thinking of mine. If things doesnt get better may be I will try that.
Can anyone please suggest how to deal with this kind of over-thinking? Either spiritual suggestions or medical suggestions or practical suggestions anything will do. Thanks very much in advance.
- Ventilator
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 14 2009 : 10:30:40 AM
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It sounds like anxiety to me. An anti-depressant tackles anxiety safely and the drug should be safe to take without harm.
I would try everything else before medication though.
You might want to perhaps try telling your wife so she could help? Talking to others about things like this helps significantly. Often the simplest caring words from a loved one can produce better feelings.
If meditation is not helping you you might want to try to find out why. Are you practising correctly? You have to find your own best way to meditate. Also, try looking into Brainwave Entrainment programs. Neuroprogrammer has a free trial for 2 weeks you can download to your computer and listen to. THere is an extensive forum at transparentcorp.com with all kinds of testimonials and advice for various things, including anxiety. This technology might work for you. it works for most people but responses vary to it. I suggest you give it a try and see. Remember, it is free. And it is very user friendly, with an automatic wizard on startup so you an select for things you want improvement with. There are many categories.
Are you on any other drugs or alcohol? These won't help.
Tense and relax your body from head to foot several times before meditating.
Use affirmations.
At work, you can do a little deep breathing (like spinal breathing without the visualisation of the spine etc) for a minute if you feel stressed.
Please do not take my advice about medication. Go to a qualified doctor or your GP.
Also, how old are you? Do you have any family with anxiety problems or similar things? Talk to them and see how they coped. And last of all, if you feel things becoming too much, a last resort would be to drop by a mental health clinic and talk to someone there. They can offer many services. Last resort because you don't want things to get out of control.
Good luck.
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Aug 14 2009 : 12:38:44 PM
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Hi ventilator,
It is very good advice to talk to someone about what you are feeling and experiencing. It can help. I Think just saying what your problem is and stating it to someone might take it off your mind.
You may also want to start a journal or even take a page and pour your heart onto it. Just to express what you feel. If it is your thing you can also talk to God about your problems. Say "God..." and pour it out.
These are things that come to my mind which might help.
I wish you the best!! |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 14 2009 : 12:55:16 PM
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Adding self inquiry may help. Read Yogani's lessons on this. Look at the topic page: http://www.aypsite.org/TopicIndex.html and read the lessons there listed under the word Self Inquiry.
Also, if you can, read "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie. |
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Aug 14 2009 : 3:20:29 PM
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Meditation can offer some very profound insights into the nature of thought. As someone given to depression and anxiety, I've found meditation has brought my mind to a point where I'm no longer anxious, and if negative thoughts or emotions come up, I'm not bothered by them to anything like the extent I used to be.
Watch your thoughts come up - don't struggle, don't judge, don't attach or follow. See where they've come from and where they go. See if they have any substance: colour, texture, taste, smell etc. This can be wonderfully liberating: you aren't your thoughts after all, and your thoughts aren't 'you.'
All the best,
gri |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Aug 14 2009 : 11:06:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ventilator
Hi all,
I will describe my problem hopefully I can get some help here.
I get easily hurt if some disturbing thing happens. For example if someone says something bad at work, I come home and keep thinking of it all night. Even for small things that might not appear big at that time, keep growing in my mind and I find myself thinking about that one event all evening and night.
I used to be like this even before I started meditation but things havent gotten any better for me after 3-4 years.
Hi Ventilator,
Have you been doing consistent, daily practices?
Consistency helps a *lot* -- and I'd say it is pretty rare for someone to be engaged in daily practices for 3-4 years, and to still be as troubled by thinking as what you describe.
And no problem one way or the other --- I'm just suggesting:
If you haven't been practicing twice daily, and following regular AYP structure -- starting to do so may well be the biggest single favor you can do for yourself, in this situation.
It's not that AYP itself is "better" than other systems, per se (though some of us have experienced it to be that way) -- it's more that it's a good "general container", for wherever you may be in your practices, and gives you a solid foundation.
And, as many of us can verify, AYP facilitates the systemic mind-body "purification", via spinal breathing and deep meditation, which does provide the inner silence and ecstatic conductivity//neurobiological changes which *exactly* address your issue (being enslaved by conditioned mind. <- A condition most of us start serious practices "in"; I certainly did!)
And so, if you are doing daily AYP practices, maybe describe your routine -- and maybe I, or others here, can offer some pointers.
Beyond that, we're all literally conditioned from earliest childhood to think that we need to think about things; that thinking will provide some resolution, some control some benefit (heck, who we think we are *is* that conditioning from childhood -- the veil of language and concepts -- "I am who I think I am" -- which is not only a fundamentally incorrect thought; it's *the* fundamentally incorrect thought.)
And you certainly don't have a problem that pretty much all of us here aren't *very* familiar with (yet, thanks to AYP, that we either no longer suffer from, or that we don't suffer from nearly as much.)
Nearly everyone in the world suffers.
Thinking is the sole cause of suffering.
Yoga (under various names) is the sole cure.
"Yogash Citta-Vrtti-Nirodhah"
"Yoga is the ceasing of mind modifications."
(Yoga Sutras, I.2)
Your exact problem is *exactly* what yoga is designed to cure .... and does .... and has .... for thousands of years.
It's probably a bit unlikely that you're the one person yoga and meditation can't help ... after it's been doing so for millions of people over thousands of years ... y'know?
Basically, daily meditation practices help us first experience inner silence, then become familiar with inner silence ... and finally, to know ourselves *as* the inner silence ... and not the stuff that arises *in* the silence, including thinking.
There are a lot of yogic practitioners who gain a LOT of inner silence ... yet, they still miss realization, because they allow the fundamental "me thought" to remain.
AYP specifically teaches not only the way to create a "realization rich" environment in the body-mind, but how to release that fundamental error (the I-thought, or me-thought).
Basically, every me-thought is like a software program, running routines based on memory and imagination.
The guy at your office is doing that (something in his past tells him he has something to gain by bullying).
You're currently doing that.
You don't have to.
Practice daily, and realize that conceptual thinking, has no value.
How do you know if it's conceptual?
If it's not happening at this moment, it's conceptual.
If it's anything other than direct perception of this moment, it's conceptual.
Clear balanced awareness is never even as *much* as a single thought away.
When we're in distorted thinking, identified with it --- clear silent awareness always feels very far away.
That's simply incorrect.
Clear silent awareness is what is actually reading these words, right now -- it cannot be otherwise.
Clear silent awareness is a superset of thinking; thinking happens within it -- including the thought that "'I' can't stop being troubled by thinking."
Non-acceptance, on some level, causes all suffering.
Practice daily, let go; accept; relax.
The only thing to "do" with any moment of our life is to live it fully by letting go of the past and the future and any resistance, and being here, now, all the way.
I hope this helps.
Intending The Peace of Clear Silent Awareness for All,
Kirtanman |
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samara
Iceland
31 Posts |
Posted - Aug 15 2009 : 11:06:29 AM
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Hi Ventilator
I have the very same problem. I am overly sensitive to other people. I have always been like this, but mediation only made it so much worse.
BUT:
This is not really a problem. Surprised? I mean it can hurt like hell and make you feel worthless and hopeless and not able to function normally around people? Then this feeling of worthlessness makes you spend a lot of time thinking about it and repeat the situation in your mind to find a solution. And there you go: your mind is trying to find a solution! Which means that you are as healthy as can be but the problem is that our culture doesn´t teach us what to do under these particular circumstances. Our culture simply tells us to avoid pain at any costs.
Some people who are very sensitive, call themselves empaths. In fact this is a spiritual power in an early stage. I used to wander around asking people for advice and everybody said I simply should pull myself together! No really helpful. But as I dislike the idea of taking pills (don´t want to mess up my delicate brain with unknown substances) I went on a search that lasted many years until I found an answer. I don´t know if my answer is helpful to you, but it helped me and now I don´t mind feeling hurt once in a while, it´s just a feeling, it won´t kill me.
After reading hundreds of books about communication, co-dependency, self-healing and spirituality I finally stumbled across a story about a Yogi sitting on a backseat of a car (can´t remember exactly which book it was). One of his disciples was driving and he could see in the mirror that his master closed his eyes in deep contemplation. At some point there is a big snake crawling over the road, and because the guy didn´t want to disturb his master, he simply drove over the snake. When they arrived at their destination, the guru stepped out of the car and said to him: You shouldn´t have done that. It hurts really bad. Then he turned around and you could see the tire tracks across his back. Not only could he feel what the snake felt, he also had the physical symptoms of being driven over.
After making this discovery I started to notice that people´s inner pain is indeed very obvious to me, even though they are trying to hide behind a mask. I realized that my emotional pain is no just mine, but everybody´s else´s as well. I also found out that on some occasions I can feel their physical pain as well. This came to my attention after having a severe back pain coming out of nowhere, knowing that my back is in perfect condition. Then I asked the person standing next to me if she was feeling well and she told me that her back was killing her. Since then I have been able to verify this countless times. I usually don´t tell people about this, but pray for their health instead. That way I can be some help hopefully. I have also noticed that as soon as I realize where the pain is coming from, it disappears.
If you want to know more about this gift (this is how I see it now), or ask some specific questions, you are welcome to contact me directly. I know this is a very sensitive issue. Even to me, discussing this here is not easy. You never know how people may react and every time it hurts!  But I have decided to live with this and endure and not let it have too much influence on me personally. But I have to say that meditation practiced regularly is very helpful as it makes the sting go away quickly. Bliss is such a great healer. |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Aug 15 2009 : 5:38:22 PM
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Hi ventilator,
I echo Shanti's advice about self-inquiry and the book "Loving What Is". Since you've been meditating, you may find that inquiry is highly effective. Meditation and inquiry have this synergistic relationship. They enhance each other in a powerful way.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Consistency helps a *lot* -- and I'd say it is pretty rare for someone to be engaged in daily practices for 3-4 years, and to still be as troubled by thinking as what you describe.
I was one of the rare ones Kirtanman mentioned here, and yes, inconsistency was a major factor in that. Doing practices excessively and spending a lot of time recovering was another factor. Even after 3-4 years of AYP, I was still plagued with excessive thinking. I wrote about it (under my old name) here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....ID=5262#5262
The main thing is to keep practicing even when you feel like giving up. That's how the breakthrough I wrote about happened. It takes time to undo a lifetime of excessive thinking.
I hope you find relief from this soon.
With Love
cosmic |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 15 2009 : 7:00:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ventilator
Hi all,
I will describe my problem hopefully I can get some help here.
I get easily hurt if some disturbing thing happens. For example if someone says something bad at work, I come home and keep thinking of it all night. Even for small things that might not appear big at that time, keep growing in my mind and I find myself thinking about that one event all evening and night.
I used to be like this even before I started meditation but things havent gotten any better for me after 3-4 years. I tried other meditations along with ayp too but it didnt help. Infact to be exact things have worsened over years. One of the primary reasons I took to meditation was this over-thinking or sensitivity of mine.
There is a guy trying to bully me at work - he is not my boss but wants to make me report to him and does all kinds of work politics. The problem is not him. The problem is my mind. If my mind is right, I would have left that thing at office itself. I dont know what to do now. Things are getting worser. I am married now and I come home and stay aloof from my wife thinking about a stupid thing that happened at work. I talked to a friend of mine and he suggested that I take some anti-depressants that can alleviate this thinking of mine. If things doesnt get better may be I will try that.
Can anyone please suggest how to deal with this kind of over-thinking? Either spiritual suggestions or medical suggestions or practical suggestions anything will do. Thanks very much in advance.
- Ventilator
Can I suggest a book called 'Loving What is' by Byron Katie. It's a self help book which has a simple set of four questions to ask about any situation where things 'should' or 'should not' be. It helped a friend of mine that had a long history of depression and taking pills......1 day after reading the book she stopped taking the tablets. It's been about 4 months now and she looks so relaxed and happy I sometimes have to check that it really is the same person as even her facial features have changed.
She sent me a thank you note for sending her the book and added 'why didn't you mention it earlier as it would have saved me a fortune in wrinkle cream'. I found the book from this forum and many others sem to like the results.
Sometimes a slight detour around a quiet part of the track can help. |
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ventilator
15 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2009 : 2:18:12 PM
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Thanks a lot for everyone for their detailed and heart-felt suggestions.
Gumpi, Thats an interesting site. I will definitely try it out.
Samara, I dont know whether to call it a gift or a weakness.
To all,
I have been doing meditation for the past 4 years or so. I am not very regular but would say regular enough. I have also ready Katie's book and thats a very good book. My nature matches very much to what Cosmic_troll has described in his link; introvertive, easily hurt, easily dominated etc... I am like a typical piscean.
Somehow slowly am losing the belief in meditation. It may help for some people but for some others like me, they wont see any change even after years; though change might be happening inside. I am still meditating though and at the same time looking for practical suggestions to deal with this.
Thanks |
Edited by - ventilator on Aug 16 2009 2:21:26 PM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2009 : 4:17:12 PM
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ventilator,
3 years is not long enough. And if you try that brainwave entrainment program i suggested, and i saw you post there too, then you will see the difference.
Everything else i suggested to you is just advice and practical help. If you don't think meditation is for you, don't do it. Meditation isn't the only way to find your path in life. Many people feel better with beliefs only. I am not that type. I want facts.
It just sounds to me like you find meditation like a chore. But this is the actual opposite to what meditation should be. It is not a chore, it is enjoyment - otherwise, why do it? I don't see the point in torturing yourself. Maybe you got the idea from somewhere that meditation could give you something that was missing from your life. All i know is that it just doesn't work that way. If you sit still for 30 minutes without moving a muscle or falling asleep, the amount of rest your body gets is significant. And this is worth having in life over the long term. Just the pure fact of relaxation should be enough without always expecting some kind of cosmic light show. You can't dictate to God. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2009 : 7:07:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
ventilator,
3 years is not long enough. And if you try that brainwave entrainment program i suggested, and i saw you post there too, then you will see the difference.
Everything else i suggested to you is just advice and practical help. If you don't think meditation is for you, don't do it. Meditation isn't the only way to find your path in life. Many people feel better with beliefs only. I am not that type. I want facts.
It just sounds to me like you find meditation like a chore. But this is the actual opposite to what meditation should be. It is not a chore, it is enjoyment - otherwise, why do it? I don't see the point in torturing yourself. Maybe you got the idea from somewhere that meditation could give you something that was missing from your life. All i know is that it just doesn't work that way. If you sit still for 30 minutes without moving a muscle or falling asleep, the amount of rest your body gets is significant. And this is worth having in life over the long term. Just the pure fact of relaxation should be enough without always expecting some kind of cosmic light show. You can't dictate to God.
Great Post Gumpi. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2009 : 9:14:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ventilator
Thanks a lot for everyone for their detailed and heart-felt suggestions.
Gumpi, Thats an interesting site. I will definitely try it out.
Samara, I dont know whether to call it a gift or a weakness.
To all,
I have been doing meditation for the past 4 years or so. I am not very regular but would say regular enough. I have also ready Katie's book and thats a very good book. My nature matches very much to what Cosmic_troll has described in his link; introvertive, easily hurt, easily dominated etc... I am like a typical piscean.
Somehow slowly am losing the belief in meditation. It may help for some people but for some others like me, they wont see any change even after years; though change might be happening inside. I am still meditating though and at the same time looking for practical suggestions to deal with this.
Thanks
Hi Ventilator,
I'd just like to reiterate:
Meditation is literally the only permanent and complete cure to thought-based suffering (aka all suffering) known to humankind.
If someone else has ever seen anything else work ... please let us know.
What I'm referring to, by the way, is "meditation by any name".
Some traditions call it communing with spirit, or contemplation; there are different methods and paths .... but in the end, the cure for suffering involves somehow experiencing silent awareness *enough*, so that sense of self is no longer directly identified with thought (including "I'm me").
It's not my intention to disagree with what anyone else had said .... I'm just a big fan of what has been proven to work; that's all.
Freedom from suffering is the benchmark.
Everyone I've seen/know who is free from suffering, or largely free from it, engages in daily practices where experiential silence is cultivated.
Without this, thought/thinking will still seem to be important; the sense "I'm me" will continue, the limited thinking mind will grasp at solutions based on misperceptions of its own partiality, and based in its own specific fallacious conditioning for the rest of its non-life.
I know; I lived it for over forty so-called years.
The levels of form, including thought-form are a small part of total consciousness.
The actual experiencER is the silent awareness in which the thinking occurs.
The only way to know this is to experience enough silence where the non-value of specific thinking and conceptual views is finally known.
Language, concept and thinking are fine servants, but terrible masters.
It sounds like daily practice would be a good idea.
Get consistent; practice daily for a year or two; then decide.
Otherwise, you're letting the thinking mind decide that there must be another way that works ... and you run off, looking for it ... seeking, yet never finding.
All proven paths to liberation from suffering I know of, involve experiential silence, and the support structures for it (see AYP Lessons for details).
The reason that stopping thinking/silence are so important, is that the idea of limited self who suffers is tied to thought-constructs.
You are not actually limited by thought-constructs; they happen within the silent field of awareness you actually are.
Freedom from suffering is only known by releasing/not-creating the idea of the limited self -- and, it seems, experiential silence (whatever it's called, in various traditions) is the only way to know that you are not limited --- in any way at all.
And so, I'd suggest:
*Look for examples of those who have what you seek (peace; freedom from suffering).
*Find out how they came to live a life of peace, of freedom from suffering.
*Do that.
Every example I know, of someone who gained the awareness that allowed for stepping free of suffering/excessive, distorted thinking -- involved experiential silence; either a lot of it ... or, if experienced more briefly -- then total experience of it.
Experiential silence is what we actually *are* .... but (of course) to know this, it must be experienced.
I'm loosely defining experiential silence and its support structures and methods as "meditation" ... if your highest and best intuition guides you to something other than that ... by all means: go for it.
I'm just suggesting not using your own thinking to determine the approach for you; evaluation blocks a lot more awareness than it provides.
I'm also suggesting taking your advice for ways to peace from those who have it.
Intending The Liberation of Original Awareness For All,
Kirtanman |
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samara
Iceland
31 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2009 : 10:01:42 PM
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Your greatest weakness, if handled right, can end up being your greatest strength. Usually it´s just a matter of time. When you look back from then on, all you see is victory. And it feels good to be able to say: Just bring it on!  |
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sudo command
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2009 : 2:25:31 PM
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ventilator perhaps you're thinking too much while in "meditation" which is isn't really meditation. It seems to me that the anxiety you describe as well as the other issues of being easily hurt are just modifications of mind that you continue to believe are you and your nature. not only is it not your nature but you will soon realise your whole concept of being hurt isn't even real--when you truly go within your self you will notice your sensitivity, fear, fear of being hurt are literally nothing but a fairy tale--you will understand that the uncomfortable situation youve came to believe that fear is supposed to conjur up isn't even real--its quite funny really. What are we really afraid of? thats the question you have to keep in mind. We tend to hold these thoughts thinking they're keeping us safe from something. Ventilator I assure you that if you in mind that "something" isnt real then you will truly start meditating and taking control of your life, because thats what meditation does--that stillness affirms that "something" is imaginary and you just naturally fill up with joy inside.
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lover
Philippines
35 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2009 : 8:51:21 PM
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hello ventilator,
Nice to read from You...
If u want,my advice is regulate first your lifestyle especially your 'sleep and diet'..This is assuming your daily mediation is already regular...
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Over-sensitive, easily hurt, please help
