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trip1
USA
739 Posts |
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Nicole
USA
46 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 15 2006 : 01:11:16 AM
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| Interesting... heard any updates on him? |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2006 : 10:33:40 AM
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Nicole,
The age-old Fame-for-Miracles trade: big claims, small proofs....
A telling detail:
Why did they need to draw a big curtain around him 'because a snake had bitten him'?
Like a snake (timid animals that stay well away from people) slipped through all those crowds of people watching him, to get a special tasty-bite out of our buddha-boy ....
They drew a big curtain around him because there was something going on which people must not be allowed to see.
What was there that people must not be allowed to see?
Burgers, fries and a milk-shake? 
-David |
Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 16 2006 10:38:32 AM |
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snake
United Kingdom
279 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2006 : 12:05:20 PM
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| But surely they must have been veggie burgers? lol |
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Nicole
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2006 : 12:59:40 PM
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| :) ...some books, an ipod. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2006 : 1:27:26 PM
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| Hopefully not another religion.... |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2006 : 12:22:37 PM
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| a porta-potty. . . |
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vishnu
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2006 : 3:00:35 PM
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The latest i heard about Ram Boujon, he has been kidnap or been taking away in the forest.
Vishnu. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2006 : 3:15:51 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Bomjon
Disappearance
Bomjon, after about ten months of meditation, went missing on March 11, 2006. It is unclear whether or not he voluntarily left for the local jungles or was abducted. Some believe he ventured farther into the jungle to seek a more serene place for intensive meditation. There is an ongoing investigation. Police abandoned the search after the possibility of foul play was eliminated. Interestingly, the authorities froze the bank account of the local committee managing the crowds, which had now gathered more than Rs. 600,000.
On March 19, the Chairman of the Om Namo Buddha Tapaswi Sewa Samiti (ONBTSS), Bed Bahadur Lama, and his colleagues allegedly met with Bomjan about 2 miles (3 kilometers) south-west of his meditation site. They say they spoke to him for thirty-minutes, during which Bomjan told them there is no peace here and he would return in six years. He left a message for his parents telling them not to worry. He has not been seen nor heard from since.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2006 : 11:48:29 AM
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More from Wiki:
An average human being who stops drinking will die of dehydration in three to four days. According to the Guinness Book of Records the longest time a human has survived without water is 18 days. The boy's followers claim the boy went for several months without drinking any water.
Bomjon has been observed not to leave the tree at least during the daytime, but nobody is allowed to approach him too closely. Between 5:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. nobody is allowed to see him, and a screen is erected for that purpose. Many people speculate that he eats and drinks during this time.
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trip1
USA
739 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2006 : 7:31:01 PM
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Glass half empty, eh David? Even if the skepticism in your post holds completely true, doesn't it impress you in the least that a child meditated at least twelve hours daily for ten months straight?  |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2006 : 8:53:25 PM
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It has been said, 'Know the truth, and the truth will set you free'. Is it true that Ram Bon Jon wasn't drinking or eating anything? Were people set free by believing it?
Did I do a disservice? In the light of the claims that this is a miracle-boy who is defying the laws of nature by eating and drinking nothing for months on end, the question, 'What did those who covered him with a curtain at night wish to hide from us?' has such an obvious answer that it is pretty clear that this myth was carried in large part by those who wanted to believe more than wanted to know the truth. So, what did the disservice? That which set the illusion up and carried it, or that which dissolved it?
We can ask more questions. Why did his minders wish us to believe he was eating and drinking nothing? Why did the boy participate? Have people really been helped by the likes of this? Are they hurt by the likes of me?
P.T Barnum has his place. Buddha has another. If P.T. Barnum attempts to seize Buddha's place, he must be stopped by those who know enough to serve in this way.
doesn't it impress you in the least that a child meditated at least twelve hours daily for ten months straight?
A little, but not hugely. Probably because I could have done it myself at that age. It's an uncommon talent, but not the mark of a Buddha.
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trip1
USA
739 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2006 : 9:12:28 PM
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| I see. Thank you for taking the time to reply. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2006 : 10:31:31 PM
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Thanks for putting up the post.  And above all, enjoy AYP!
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LittleDragon
29 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2006 : 11:46:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
It has been said, 'Know the truth, and the truth will set you free'. Is it true that Ram Bon Jon wasn't drinking or eating anything? Were people set free by believing it?
Did I do a disservice? In the light of the claims that this is a miracle-boy who is defying the laws of nature by eating and drinking nothing for months on end, the question, 'What did those who covered him with a curtain at night wish to hide from us?' has such an obvious answer that it is pretty clear that this myth was carried in large part by those who wanted to believe more than wanted to know the truth. So, what did the disservice? That which set the illusion up and carried it, or that which dissolved it?
We can ask more questions. Why did his minders wish us to believe he was eating and drinking nothing? Why did the boy participate? Have people really been helped by the likes of this? Are they hurt by the likes of me?
P.T Barnum has his place. Buddha has another. If P.T. Barnum attempts to seize Buddha's place, he must be stopped by those who know enough to serve in this way.
Very well said. I applaud this post and your efforts. This was done with logic, common sense, and without anything that could be called malicious humor. Keep it up David. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2006 : 09:54:26 AM
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Thanks LittleDragon. Appreciations are rare. The way of the skeptic is a hard and lonely path.
[picks up laptop and walks David-Carradine-in-"Kung-Fu"-style into the sunset]
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2006 : 1:08:32 PM
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Nice post, David.
quote:
The way of the skeptic is a hard and lonely path.
Only when you dive into the spiritual society without losing your brain power, I think. In my department which I will be leaving soon, over 80% are skeptics, most of the rest don't even bother to think about it, and very few are interested in spiritual paths.(all Christians)
But then I am in a humilating position: with the standard here (or any spiritual group), I am an unwelcomed skeptic that I simply prefer not to say too much; but in front of my collegues, I can hardly tell them anything about my esoteric yogic practices---I'll lose my credibility if I can't justify practices other than meditation, and I can't.
That's always in my mind, and triggered again by David's post: as spirituality is almost always accompanied by ignorance, "wrong" passion about "truth" (which is usually made up of lies.....); I wonder what spirituality really is, and whether it is something that should be encouraged. I have little doubt that the scope of the term is miscontrued, as we've disscused in http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=647
But I went further to doubt the whole concept of spirituality. What is it, really? One reason why I appreciate Yogani's teaching so much is that he explained it in a simple language: bliss, inner silence, etc. But it could mean more for different people, e.g. God, Jesus,...Unfortunately, those "more" very often includes a large amount of ignorance that I think has outweight any possible benefits.
Imagine someone who feels bliss all the time, and may be egoless, but can't properly interact with the others and cause much troubles. Is he enlightened? For many, that may depend on whether he lives alone in a cave or downtown. A paradox for the yogis, but not for B. Russell.
I hope I've missed something, but I suspect that spiritual path will in general (just in general) bring people into an illusion of something called "truth", enlightenment, etc, whatever..something sound fancy, anyway. And the followers get some drug-like effects, like bliss, ecstasy from these believes. Many Christian are so proud to think that they are the chosen ones. Dangerous cults do this effectively, "safe" religions adapt and make themselves compatible with our common values.
quote:
doesn't it impress you in the least that a child meditated at least twelve hours daily for ten months straight?
My pet tarantula could sit still for up to 3 days(usually more than 12 hours daily) and for 5 years straight. She must be Buddha's secret teacher in her past life??
The child hardly impressed me. I feel bad and bored to learn the story. The child may have autism and the ignorance of those who praise and promote such feats would ruin the child's future. It's as serious as that, and yet such stories are attractive for most here. See, our desire for the truth will lead us (or the others) to misery, and in the process we feel good! Still say it is spiritual?
Alvin
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Edited by - Alvin Chan on Jul 20 2006 1:12:12 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 5:25:12 PM
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Alvin said:
But then I am in a humilating position: with the standard here (or any spiritual group), I am an unwelcomed skeptic that I simply prefer not to say too much; but in front of my collegues, I can hardly tell them anything about my esoteric yogic practices---I'll lose my credibility if I can't justify practices other than meditation, and I can't.
My experience is similar in some ways. In the world of Science, not many have much understanding of yoga and meditation, and in the world of Yoga, not many people have a strong grasp of Science or even Rational Enquiry.
So unfortunately, this means that a person who is strong in both may not fit in very well in the community of either. Which is a curse ( for obvious reasons) but a blessing in another way; such a person can be a bridge between the two, and something of a pioneer.
I like the nature of the thought of someone like Bertrand Russell, and in fact if I could push a button and make it happen, I would prefer to see his taboo-free enquiry-based humanism applied across the board in public human affairs (though not necessarily in private ones). It isn't going to happen though, and in a way, people like Bertrand Russell are a little self-defeating because they have so little understanding of the non-rational side of human beings. This is why someone like Russell, who has a lot of good ideas, can never be convincing on a large scale.
Better to know both the rational and non-rational, and master both.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Aug 02 2006 10:43:18 AM |
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trip1
USA
739 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 10:24:48 PM
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Hi David,
quote:
Better to know both the rational and irrational, and master both.
The problem that I find with this logic is that you seem to have left out transrational, which includes integral and beyond. Placing rational at the top of the ladder is extremely limiting, and actually leaves no room for the idea of enlightenment in the vertical stages of consciousness.
I'm not sure if you are familiar with the work of Ken Wilber (founder of the Integral Institute), but I'd recommend checking it out if you ever get a chance. I've personally studied his ten disc "Kosmic Consciousness" program, which I found to be extremely groundbreaking in many areas of understanding human consciousness. There is also a wonderful overview of his work in the new "What Is Enlightenment" magazine (currently on newsstands), which is quite a bit cheaper than the ten disc set.
Apologies for the threadjack, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this, as I personally found it to be quite fascinating and it seems to fit it quite well with the current topic at hand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Wilber
Namaste,
Brett |
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LittleDragon
29 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 11:45:46 PM
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Yes David, (and others) I too would like to hear your thoughts on Wilber. I think he's done some important ground breaking when it comes to bringing science and spirituality together.
An online source of some of his writing is
http://wilber.shambhala.com/html/ar.../archive.cfm
But I would recommend the book "The Simple Feeling of Being, Embracing Your True Nature" (a collection of his more "spiritual" writings) more highly. While Ken seems to have walked on just about every path and tries to find the value in each, he is mostly a nondual Buddist type. |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2006 : 12:44:21 AM
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David wrote:
quote:
Better to know both the rational and irrational, and master both.
Not sure what "mastering irrational" means, but I think you don't mean getting mad. Knowing the process of getting mad and those who are mad, and understanding the cause-and-effect of this and that (like how to feel bliss and/or sound like an idiot), ALL these are rather rational for me, as long as such understandings have at least a vague predictive power.
It's pretty easy to judge whether one has master the rational or not. But I'm not sure whether how much irrational B. Russell or Ken Wilber has mastered. This Ram Bomjon, although I sympathize with him, is nothing but a poor boy used to attract tourists.
I am just starting on this spiritual stuff, you know. So I don't claim to be accurate on this: I think we can be quite sure who is NOT enlightened, but there are no good signs of anyone who is enlightened (98% of the time). Buddha is a great man ( and generally considered to be elightened) not because of the amount of time he can sit without food, but because of his teachings and how he influenced and inspired those following him. And I think this is the single (and most reliable) clue which we can based when we judge whether someone is enlightened.
For me, the wisdom and the ability to influence the others positively that Jesus or Buddha has, are far more convincing and appealing to me as someone who is enlightened. Afterall, if enlightenment means an "inner potato couch" who is not responsive, better hit your head hard as a high road to enlightenment.
I agree that Buddha is great. But we keep seeing those who obviously have psychological problems ( and keep infusing the others with their "NEW THEORY OF XXXXX" ) being considered as enlightened(or great). The "NEW THEORY OF XXXXX" can be an indication that the guys want fame/respect/money. They keep using pseudoscience in an attempt to sound "clever". This is the kind the "irrational" that I don't think I have to (or need to) master........ Their talent is to make wrong and unsupported statements sound great, and is obviously something bad for people. (except being quite entertaining sometimes)
Good spiritual teachings are usually simple to understand, though not necessarily simple to do. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2006 : 10:45:33 AM
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Trip1 said:
The problem that I find with this logic is that you seem to have left out transrational, which includes integral and beyond. Placing rational at the top of the ladder is extremely limiting, and actually leaves no room for the idea of enlightenment in the vertical stages of consciousness.
Umm, Brett, I didn't put the rational on the top of the ladder.... I don't know how that came across. Regarding the transrational and beyond, I don't know that kind of language well .... yet anyway.
I actually have a copy of the 'What Is Enlightenment' issue you speak of, and I've read about half of it, and intend to get to the rest of it. I do like it a lot, finding it frightfully interesting....
Apologies for the threadjack, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this, as I personally found it to be quite fascinating and it seems to fit it quite well with the current topic at hand.
I'll be getting back.
Alvin said:
Not sure what "mastering irrational" means, but I think you don't mean getting mad
Alvin, I should have said non-rational. There, I've edited it. I'm not sure the irrational is something which can be mastered. Excuse my sploppy writing if it is causing confusion,.
An example of mastering the non-rational is mastering your emotions. Your emotions are not in fact a process of your rational mind, and mastering them is not generally an achievement of the rational mind. No, making irrational 'Theories of XXXXX' is not an example of mastering the non-rational. What you have said is true unfortunately -- people try to get fame with the newest and greatest irrational 'Theories of XXXXX'.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Aug 02 2006 10:50:30 AM |
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trip1
USA
739 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2006 : 9:32:44 PM
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Hi David,
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Umm, Brett, I didn't put the rational on the top of the ladder.... I don't know how that came across. Regarding the transrational and beyond, I don't know that kind of language well .... yet anyway.
Whoops, my apologies for taking your statement out of context. At least a good discussion seems to be forming out of it.
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
I actually have a copy of the 'What Is Enlightenment' issue you speak of, and I've read about half of it, and intend to get to the rest of it. I do like it a lot, finding it frightfully interesting....
Great, I'll be looking forward to discussing this further as I feel it's a topic which everyone will be able to benefit from. |
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Ram Bomjon
